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England: Is Varndell due for a comeback?

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Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler
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Post by Portnoy Wed 07 Sep 2011, 5:14 pm

I think that he is - he's a lethal finisher.

Rubbish in defence but there again so was Campese.
England have a few up and coming centres to deal with the problem - just like Campo had.
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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Wed 07 Sep 2011, 6:17 pm

He brushed off Hodgson (easy) and did Strettle (hard) for pace in scoring his try against Sarries in the LDH.

Top finisher when the ground is hard. definitely worth keeping an eye on up to the 6Ns.

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Post by Mr Bounce Wed 07 Sep 2011, 7:49 pm

I think he's been simmering under the radar quite nicely recently. He's obviously been working on his defence and could be a worthy addition to the EPS following the RWC.

I'm not sure how much longer Mark Cueto will be featuring in the Internationals but Varndell has to remember that the competition for the wingers' spots are incredibly fierce. There are 4 ahead of him who did not make the trip in Monye, Sharples, Ojo and Simpson-Daniel, all of whom are playing well for their clubs.

If he continues playing in the same vein as last weekend I would expect a call up for at least the Saxons squad in the Spring.

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Post by tomathy Wed 07 Sep 2011, 7:52 pm

Mr Bounce

And Strettle
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Post by Ozzy3213 Wed 07 Sep 2011, 8:03 pm

Err, No!

Great finisher with fantastic pace that is true.

Lazy, tackle shy, doesn't look for work, doesn't have great hands and is suspect under the high ball, also true.

Should be nowhere near the England team.
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Post by B91212 Wed 07 Sep 2011, 8:10 pm

LDCPete wrote:Err, No!

Great finisher with fantastic pace that is true.

Lazy, tackle shy, doesn't look for work, doesn't have great hands and is suspect under the high ball, also true.

Should be nowhere near the England team.

Agree 100%

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Post by Portnoy Wed 07 Sep 2011, 9:09 pm

B91212 wrote:
LDCPete wrote:Err, No!

Great finisher with fantastic pace that is true.

Lazy, tackle shy, doesn't look for work, doesn't have great hands and is suspect under the high ball, also true.

Should be nowhere near the England team.

Agree 100%

Now who does that remind me of?

Oh yes! Campo - without the gob.

(apart from the Teflon hands admittedly). But I still think that he's worth a punt after the RWC.

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Post by Ozzy3213 Wed 07 Sep 2011, 9:21 pm

There are better, younger options, with the potential to go further, and bringing Varndell into the team now would be a waste of time.
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Post by kedz Wed 07 Sep 2011, 9:28 pm

Even as a Wasps fan I would not put him in the England team, throughout the game on the weekend the commentators kept talking about if he looked for the ball, if he used his speed and weight properly, if he defended. Problem is, he doesn't. I agree that he has fantastic ability, and is great to watch with ball in hand and a bit of space, but i don't think Johnno will look at him at all, he prefers someone who looks for the ball etc.

If someone could get his head in the right place and get his confidence up then maybe but...

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Post by Portnoy Wed 07 Sep 2011, 9:54 pm

I know he seems to have been around since God was a boy, but Varndell is 26/7 isn't he?
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Post by Ozzy3213 Wed 07 Sep 2011, 9:56 pm

He's not old by any stretch Portnoy, but we have 18, 19, 20 year old players now that can do what he does and have more potential to improve. Giving him more caps would just be a waste of time.
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Post by perand25 Wed 07 Sep 2011, 10:05 pm

I'm also a Wasps fan and dont think he should be anywhere near England. It seems as though he is lacking confidence although i would imagine thats to do with breaking his leg but there were a couple of times on Saturday when he should of gone for a gap but hesitated or had a chance to take someone on the outside but cut inside instead so the move died out although he took his try very well. Its a shame but his defence is awful and only seems to make his tackles when he can use the touchline . If he could get a bit of a hard edged mentality he could be very good but all he really has is his speed




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Post by Portnoy Wed 07 Sep 2011, 10:07 pm

LDCPete wrote:He's not old by any stretch Portnoy, but we have 18, 19, 20 year old players now that can do what he does and have more potential to improve. Giving him more caps would just be a waste of time.

True. Very true, Morse. But I just happen to think that Tom has improved immensely since leaving the Tigers (when he was last tried out for England (I think)).

Plus I'm not over-sold on a youth-at-all-costs policy. Some players grow into their boots later than others. But he does need good centres inside him.
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Post by perand25 Wed 07 Sep 2011, 10:10 pm

Bell looked very good on Saturday

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Post by Ozzy3213 Wed 07 Sep 2011, 10:10 pm

I guess I don't see him improving beyond what he produces now Portnoy. I agree, some players mature later, but he either needs to be one of the best 2 wingers now, or show the potential to be in the future for me to say he should get another shot internationally. I don't see him in either of those two categories, so as they say in the Dragons Den...


I'm Out!!! thumbsup
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Post by OzT Wed 07 Sep 2011, 10:15 pm

[quote="Portnoy"][quote="B91212"]
LDCPete wrote:Err, No!

Oh yes! Campo - without the gob.


I really think since Torquri took him apart on his tour to Oz he has lost the bottle to take on stronger players. Good finisher with pace but not enough to take him back I think as England does have many speedsters

Campo, for all his gob, was very brave and more than willing to take on hard players, even taunt them sometimes... remember Ackerman?


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Post by Portnoy Wed 07 Sep 2011, 10:16 pm

Yep.

Agree to differ. I just happen to think that he is the sharpest tool in the box right now. cake
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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 07 Sep 2011, 10:37 pm

I think Ojo should be ahead of him in the pecking order personally.

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Post by jb1973 Wed 07 Sep 2011, 10:42 pm

campo and varndell in the same sentence? yikes.


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Post by OzT Wed 07 Sep 2011, 10:50 pm

I rate, and bearing in mind I am biased and have seen Campo play, I woudl rate Campo as George Best of the soccer world.

They both have more ways to beat players, through crowds of them, or one on one, without using brute force as both are quite slight, but with a subtle change of direction and pace. And both took a bit of battering from the bigger players, but neither of them woudl back down. sorry to bring soccer into a rugby forum but was just trying to make a comparison.

and I agree with jb, hard to think of Varndell and Campo as even alike players. Varndell has pace, but so have many more players in England, and they offer more.

My 2c worth... and in my days 2c would have brought me a small bag of lollies!! LOL!

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Post by sad_gimp Thu 08 Sep 2011, 2:43 am

Plenty more youngsters who deserve a go, Olly Lindsay-Hague, Sam Smith and Ross Chisholm at quins are all good prospects.

Monye is only a shade slower and has a much better all round game, and proven international record.

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Post by flankertye Thu 08 Sep 2011, 11:34 am

I much prefer Ojo to Varndell.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 08 Sep 2011, 11:59 am

Ive spenmt years being suprised by how young he still is, one dayt this will end.

The main stumbling block for him will be that hes not cversatile enough for a bench place, and wont get in ahead of Ashton as an out and out strike winger. The other wing spot will be taken by a player with some full back skills ( after Cueto retires that Monye and Armitage currently).

Hes then got Ojo, Sharples and Strettle to battle for Astons reserve. Thats without considering Banahan.


He was on the England radar breifly last season all the same, so its not impossibel that he could get another sniff, theres no question that hes the best out and out pace winger in the Jeff, and his try scoring record stands up agaisnt anyone except for the one dodgy season when he got the boohoo's

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Post by Portnoy Thu 08 Sep 2011, 12:08 pm

But Varndell presents an improved threat - much different from the last time he made an England appearance.

I always predicated my argument that he needs to be protected by a superb centre partnership which I believe is coming soon. Manu is in place(ish). Maybe with 36 to step up to replace HRH.

Worth a shot in the 6Ns I fancy.
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 08 Sep 2011, 12:11 pm

Portnoy wrote:Worth a shot in the 6Ns I fancy.

Ahead of Ashton?

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Post by Portnoy Thu 08 Sep 2011, 12:14 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
Portnoy wrote:Worth a shot in the 6Ns I fancy.

Ahead of Ashton?

Nah. That guy is solid gold.
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 08 Sep 2011, 12:20 pm

So youd only have one player who can kick in the back 3, and he wants to be a scrum half?

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Post by Geordie Thu 08 Sep 2011, 12:38 pm

I dont think he's as good as Monye when he's in top form, and i think Ojo is a far better player aswell.

Add in Sharples who has serious pace, and can play, Banahan and Strettle.

Add in youngsters like Wade, see how Cato develops at Saints and im sure most can name up and coming wingers etc then Varndell might find his chances limited.

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Post by Portnoy Thu 08 Sep 2011, 12:58 pm

I see it as sabres, cutlasses, rapiers, epees, foils etc.

If England can shore up its mid-field, then there is a place for Tom.

Not everything should be bludgeon. Guile and style should have their place.

Very unEnglish - heretical even...
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Post by beshocked Thu 08 Sep 2011, 1:04 pm

Portnoy why should Varndell make a comeback? Brushing off probably the two weakest Saracens tacklers doesn't instantly make Varndell worthy of an England spot.

It was very fortunate for Varndell that he was up against Hodgson and Strettle who are hardly known for their defensive capabilities.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 08 Sep 2011, 1:08 pm

I dont think guile is really up Varndells street though is it, more just running really fast in a straight line. Hes not known for his dancing feet, clever football, or magicians hands. Id describe him as more Vega than Guile.
I feel that when you have a OC and one winger who cant kick to save their lives and your fullback belives hes a healdess chicken it doesnt heurt to have a second winger who has at least a basic grasp of the tactical game.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Thu 08 Sep 2011, 1:12 pm

beshocked wrote:Portnoy why should Varndell make a comeback? Brushing off probably the two weakest Saracens tacklers doesn't instantly make Varndell worthy of an England spot.

It was very fortunate for Varndell that he was up against Hodgson and Strettle who are hardly known for their defensive capabilities.

Strettle is known for his pace though and he was outstripped by Varndell. A nudge or tap tackle would have prevented the try but he was too quick.

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Post by Great White Thu 08 Sep 2011, 1:14 pm

I've never forgiven Varndell for being inherently lazy at Leicester, who were well rid of him.

Shouldn't be anywhere near the England set-up, let alone the fitst XV. As others have said so eloquently, he's probably not even 4th or 5th choice for the coveted spot.

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Post by tomhughesnice Thu 08 Sep 2011, 1:16 pm

Vardell playing style is rugby equivalent of a 'goal hanger' in football.

He spends most of the match just hanging out wide ready to recieve the try scoring pass. Wont deny his try finishing can be pretty good sometimes, and hes got some serious pace.. But thats it. He does not move around the pitch looking for work, like all the great wingers in this modern age.

An simply put, Varndell lacks the balls to be an international rugby player. Which is a mindset that cannot be broken no matter what training he recieves.

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Post by beshocked Thu 08 Sep 2011, 1:17 pm

Bigtrevsmac I will need to watch it again but I am pretty sure Varndell didn't outpace him. Strettle just missed a tackle.

Strettle missed a lot of tackles last season though beat a lot of defenders and made plenty of breaks. Probably one of Saracen's weakest tacklers bar Hodgson currently.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 08 Sep 2011, 1:19 pm

tomhughesnice wrote:Vardell playing style is rugby equivalent of a 'goal hanger' in football.

He spends most of the match just hanging out wide ready to recieve the try scoring pass. Wont deny his try finishing can be pretty good sometimes, and hes got some serious pace.. But thats it. He does not move around the pitch looking for work, like all the great wingers in this modern age.

An simply put, Varndell lacks the balls to be an international rugby player. Which is a mindset that cannot be broken no matter what training he recieves.

People say that about Tom Croft

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Thu 08 Sep 2011, 1:24 pm

beshocked wrote:Bigtrevsmac I will need to watch it again but I am pretty sure Varndell didn't outpace him. Strettle just missed a tackle.

Strettle missed a lot of tackles last season though beat a lot of defenders and made plenty of breaks. Probably one of Saracen's weakest tacklers bar Hodgson currently.

Did Strettle get hold of the ball last season Wink Sarries need to mix their game up a bit this season I think and spread it wide more quickly.
Strettle is clearly ahead of Varndell in MJ pecking order I am quite happy about that more game time at Wasps. Smile I suspect longer term Mr Wade on the other wing will be lost to England during coming seasons....

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