Best Test XI of All Time

Stephen Fleming
Andy Flower
Don Bradman
Alan Knott
Kapil Dev
Junaid Siddique
Anil Kumble
Graeme Swann
Michael Holding
Mitchell Johnson
Malcolm Marshall


Let me know what you guy think

Rather a pervers selectio Shanky.

I have tried this before, and have too many players I would wish to include. Where the match was being played would have an impact on the team I would select, so I have gone for a 22 man Squad - only including players I have physically seen play:

Openers:
Gordon Greenidge, Barry Richards, Graham Gooch, Virender Sehwag

Middle Order Batsmen:
Brian Lara, Sachin Tendulkar, Jacque Kallis, Viv Richards, Rahul Dravid, Gary Sobers

Keeper/Batsmen:
Andy Flower, Adam Gilchrist

Spin Bowlers:
Murali, Shane Warne, Abdul Quadir

Seam Bowlers:
Joel Garner, Michael Holding, Malcolm Marshall, Dennis Lillee, Wasim Akram, Richard Hadlee, Ian Botham

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Stephen Fleming
Andy Flower
Don Bradman
Alan Knott
Kapil Dev
Junaid Siddique
Anil Kumble
Graeme Swann
Michael Holding
Mitchell Johnson
Malcolm Marshall


Let me know what you guy think

Not a lot.

Is this meant to be a p1ss take of one of CF's articles?

you reported my thread, and then you do this thread what a joke!

might as well do my proper test eleven, so it dosent look like so much of a joke..

1)Graeme Pollock
2)Sunil Gavaskar
3)Don Bradman
4)Jacuqes Kallis
5)Sachin Tendulkar
6)Inzamaam ul-Haq (C)
7)Adam Gilchrist (WK)
8)Shane Warne
9)Malcolm Marshall
10)Glenn McGrath
11)Michael Holding

cricketfan90 wrote:you reported my thread, and then you do this thread what a joke!

might as well do my proper test eleven, so it dosent look like so much of a joke..

1)Graeme Pollock
2)Sunil Gavaskar
3)Don Bradman
4)Jacuqes Kallis
5)Sachin Tendulkar
6)Inzamaam ul-Haq (C)
7)Adam Gilchrist (WK)
8)Shane Warne
9)Malcolm Marshall
10)Glenn McGrath
11)Michael Holding

Why have you suddenly dropped Stephen Fleming?

cricketfan90 wrote:you reported my thread, and then you do this thread what a joke!

might as well do my proper test eleven, so it dosent look like so much of a joke..

1)Graeme Pollock
2)Sunil Gavaskar
3)Don Bradman
4)Jacuqes Kallis
5)Sachin Tendulkar
6)Inzamaam ul-Haq (C)
7)Adam Gilchrist (WK)
8)Shane Warne
9)Malcolm Marshall
10)Glenn McGrath
11)Michael Holding

Good team CF, missing an all-rounder at 6/7 though I would say.

kallis the team all rounder

No Sobers?

nope

cricketfan90 wrote:nope

Why not?

cos i think kallis is better

Wow.

I could write a whole paragraph why Sobers is better but i've been playing football for the last 3 hours and can't be arsed.

But in all, Sobers a better batter and bowler than Kallis.

Sobers way out ahead in the poll for best all rounder....more than double the votes for Kallis & Botham combined, both of whom are/were fine players....

cricketfan90 wrote:cos i think kallis is better

Why do you think Kallis is a better All Rounder than Sobers?

Not having a go, but would love to hear your explanation.

cricket fan

Pollock was by all accounts a great player but I don't think he ever opened.

As for Kallis/Sobers.

The gap is probably closer than most make out but the fact that Sobers bowled spin as well as other types of bowling, makes him a must in my team.

Yeah, just ask Richie...

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:

cricketfan90 wrote:cos i think kallis is better

Why do you think Kallis is a better All Rounder than Sobers?

Not having a go, but would love to hear your explanation.

this will cause controversy, however it is my opnion, and that is allowed...I think kallis was more dependable with the bat..They both averaged similiarly with bat, both averaging 57, but sobers only played one way, and he probably would have averaged more had he batted in a more test approcach. (im not saying thats the only reason why kallis is better) Kallis was the anchor for his side and rarely let his side, and would get into any test team purely on batting..

Kallis also took more wickets at a better average as well. Also shows how good kallis is, as he was a reluctant bowler, and dosent like bowling that much, but does it for him team, and he has 270 wickets at an average of 32. Sobers has 40 less at a higher average, still very good, but imo i think kallis is better..

lol no one can say i havent explained my self here....

CF a lot of what you say is true. I'd certainly put Kallis closer to Sobers than some might. However, a couple of points. First, on your view that Sobers only batted one way and might have averaged more if he'd batted more circumspectly. Possibly true. But it can be said (and indeed often has), that Kallis only bats one way as well, and it might be argued that he may have averaged less if he'd tried to force the issue while batting a bit more often. Furthermore, which is better for the team, scoring big but slowly, or scoring big but more quickly?
As for Kallis' bowling the stats are impressive, especially considering the dominance of bat over ball in the last few years (although that argument may diminish his batting record a little), but, when comparing them to Sobers' stats you have to remember that Sobers quite often opened the bowling (more often than Kallis, anyway, I should imagine), and bowled 3 different types of delivery, rather than concentrating on one.
All-in-all, I'd still pick Sobers over Kallis (Sobers was also a brilliant fielder almost anywhere, which I don't think can be said of Kallis), but it's a close call IMO.

Great answer Hoggy!

It's true, Sobers was a more dynamic all-rounder with both bat and ball whereas Kallis is more circumspect with the bat and steady & consistent with the ball.

In terms of fielding, Kallis a classic slip but Sobers would always be searching for the next opportunity... and was more versatile across various fielding positions. More of a leader by example, imo.

1) Sunil Gavaskar
2) Jack Hobbs
3) Don Bradman (c)
4) Sachin Tendulkar
5) Brian Lara
6) Garfield Sobers
7) Adam Gilchrist (wk)
8) Richard Hadlee
9) Wasim Akram
10) Malcolm Marshall
11) Muttiah Muralitharan

Twelfth man; Jacques Kallis

88Chris05 wrote:1) Sunil Gavaskar
2) Jack Hobbs
3) Don Bradman (c)
4) Sachin Tendulkar
5) Brian Lara
6) Garfield Sobers
7) Adam Gilchrist (wk)
8) Richard Hadlee
9) Wasim Akram
10) Malcolm Marshall
11) Muttiah Muralitharan
Twelfth man; Jacques Kallis

I would always go Warne over Murali, as I think Warne had a better ability to think a batsman out and get inside his head. I love this in a cricketer when they the react and set plans for batsman as there is nothing better then seeing this come to fruition. Add in Warne's superior batting,and slip fielding I think he is a better choice than Murali.

JDizzle wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:1) Sunil Gavaskar
2) Jack Hobbs
3) Don Bradman (c)
4) Sachin Tendulkar
5) Brian Lara
6) Garfield Sobers
7) Adam Gilchrist (wk)
8) Richard Hadlee
9) Wasim Akram
10) Malcolm Marshall
11) Muttiah Muralitharan
Twelfth man; Jacques Kallis

I would always go Warne over Murali, as I think Warne had a better ability to think a batsman out and get inside his head. I love this in a cricketer when they the react and set plans for batsman as there is nothing better then seeing this come to fruition. Add in Warne's superior batting,and slip fielding I think he is a better choice than Murali.

That's a fair enough point, but as far as I'm concerned, Murali is simply a better bowler than Warne, and his career has proved that. Not by much, and Warne, given his freakish talents, is unlucky to miss out. Two spinners of such quality having more or less parallel careers is a freak occurrence, somewhat. But whichever way I look at it, Murali was the better bowler.

I take your point about Warne's far superior batting, but I'm a firm believer that batsmen are there to score runs, bowlers to take wickets, and they should be picked purely on this basis. Besides, with the batting line up my dream team has, I doubt having a lower order man who can add an extra twenty-odd runs is going to be that important! Had Kallis made my first eleven rather than Sobers, then I may have gone for two specialist spinners - but as Sir Garfield is there with his useful back up spin, one specialist it is.

No issues with anyone going for Warne, or Grimmett / Laker for that matter. But to me, Murali was the greatest spinner of them all.

From players in my lifetime:

Gavasker
Sehwag
Ponting
Tendulkar
Lara
Imran
Gilchrist
Warne
Marshall
McGrath
Murali

88Chris05 wrote:

JDizzle wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:1) Sunil Gavaskar
2) Jack Hobbs
3) Don Bradman (c)
4) Sachin Tendulkar
5) Brian Lara
6) Garfield Sobers
7) Adam Gilchrist (wk)
8) Richard Hadlee
9) Wasim Akram
10) Malcolm Marshall
11) Muttiah Muralitharan
Twelfth man; Jacques Kallis

I would always go Warne over Murali, as I think Warne had a better ability to think a batsman out and get inside his head. I love this in a cricketer when they the react and set plans for batsman as there is nothing better then seeing this come to fruition. Add in Warne's superior batting,and slip fielding I think he is a better choice than Murali.

That's a fair enough point, but as far as I'm concerned, Murali is simply a better bowler than Warne, and his career has proved that. Not by much, and Warne, given his freakish talents, is unlucky to miss out. Two spinners of such quality having more or less parallel careers is a freak occurrence, somewhat. But whichever way I look at it, Murali was the better bowler.

I take your point about Warne's far superior batting, but I'm a firm believer that batsmen are there to score runs, bowlers to take wickets, and they should be picked purely on this basis. Besides, with the batting line up my dream team has, I doubt having a lower order man who can add an extra twenty-odd runs is going to be that important! Had Kallis made my first eleven rather than Sobers, then I may have gone for two specialist spinners - but as Sir Garfield is there with his useful back up spin, one specialist it is.

No issues with anyone going for Warne, or Grimmett / Laker for that matter. But to me, Murali was the greatest spinner of them all.

It is fair enough, you cannot argue that both are not great spinners but for me Warne was always greater. I suppose their are two schools of though of thought on the matter; one would say that Warne played in a great Australian side where there was less pressure on him to perform, whereas Murali carried an average Sri Lankan bowling attack. However, Murali played his home games on helpful, spinning sub continent pitches against sides who were not used to these conditions bar India, and also due to the fact the rest of his attack didn't take many wickets there were more for Murali to take! Whereas Warne had to compete against McGrath, Gillespie, Lee etc.

Murali has the slighty better s/r and average, but again he played more games Zimbabwe and Bangladesh than Warne which skews these stats slightly. I just remember Warne winning more matches on his own than Murali, you just got the impression he would always take the game by the scruff of the neck and drag a side through whereas Murali would sometime, occasionally, just run out of ideas. Warne was always trying something new.

Finally, I always believe that a good, or in this case great, leg spinner is always better and more threatening than a good/great off spinner, however unorthodox the off spinner is, due to the extra variations and loop and flight. Something is always happening when a leggie is bowling. And I agree batsman should be picked to bat, and bowlers should be picked to bowl but when you have to bowlers of equal abilities then maybe extra dimensions, batting/fielding, should come into consideration.

cricketfan90 wrote:

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:

cricketfan90 wrote:cos i think kallis is better

Why do you think Kallis is a better All Rounder than Sobers?

Not having a go, but would love to hear your explanation.

this will cause controversy, however it is my opnion, and that is allowed...I think kallis was more dependable with the bat..They both averaged similiarly with bat, both averaging 57, but sobers only played one way, and he probably would have averaged more had he batted in a more test approcach. (im not saying thats the only reason why kallis is better) Kallis was the anchor for his side and rarely let his side, and would get into any test team purely on batting..

Kallis also took more wickets at a better average as well. Also shows how good kallis is, as he was a reluctant bowler, and dosent like bowling that much, but does it for him team, and he has 270 wickets at an average of 32. Sobers has 40 less at a higher average, still very good, but imo i think kallis is better..

lol no one can say i havent explained my self here....

Batting wise between Sobers and Kallis is close, Kallis is known for playing through an innings while Sobers would look to take the bowlers out of thgame. Sobers batted very aggressively and still averaged highly, for me giving the edge to him. Sobers could bowl a variety of different deliveries, wrist spin, orthodox, fast-medium Sobers didn't quite fully deliver bowling on the Test sage but his variety adds something totally different then Kallis' fast-medium. Again both of there averages are pretty close. Sobers could get into the West Indies side simply on his bowling, Kallis I doubt he would. Added to the fact Sobers was a terrific fielder, I think he's the better player and better all-rounder it is close than I may of made out though.

CF what I find baffling in the poll for the all-rounder spot you put and I quote "Sobers for me".

Ok guys this article was a joke.Can someone lock this plz?

For proper discussion visit here



https://www.606v2.com/t13123-best-test-xi-of-all-time

The views in that thread are my real views.

sainty the issue was addressed and resolved yesterday.

CF, did you see my comment about you going for Sobers in the poll yet stating here Kallis is the better all-rounder.

i changed my mind, and i had a look at stats, and resarach and stuff, but also it depends on your team and who is iin it, when u make a world eleven

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Stephen Fleming
Andy Flower
Don Bradman
Alan Knott
Kapil Dev
Junaid Siddique
Anil Kumble
Graeme Swann
Michael Holding
Mitchell Johnson
Malcolm Marshall

Let me know what you guy think

The hilarious selection of Stephen Fleming as a Test Match Opener just pretty much sums up your efforts at selecting an All-Time Test XI.

I think he was attempting humour?

Stella wrote:I think he was attempting humour?

Well he hasn't made a great job of it as he has named a pretty useful and scary Test Team (aside from having Fleming as an opener). Bradman for a start will bat all day that others will not have a chance of getting a bat. Whilst in the bowling, the likes of Marshall and Holding will simply blow the opposition batsmen away with their lethal fiery fast bowling before the likes of Mitchell Johnson get a chance to bowl as the first change bowler.

Siddique, Johnson, Swann and even Dev should be nowhere near an all-time XI.

Stella wrote:Siddique, Johnson, Swann and even Dev should be nowhere near an all-time XI.

A bit harsh on Kapil Dev considering that he was a very good India captain, and was also a very underrated pace bowler.

you cant just dismiss kapil dev like that, he is one of the best all rounders ever to have played the game.

Dev may have been underrated but so was Angus Fraser and that isn't qualification for a ALL-TIME world XI, IMO.

cricketfan

It's all about opinions but Siddique???

Stella wrote:Dev may have been underrated but so was Angus Fraser and that isn't qualification for a ALL-TIME world XI, IMO.

But with due respect to Angus Fraser, he was never any good at anything else in cricket other than bowling. His fielding was less than average, whilst his batting was at times non-existant.

gboycottnut wrote:

Stella wrote:Dev may have been underrated but so was Angus Fraser and that isn't qualification for a ALL-TIME world XI, IMO.

But with due respect to Angus Fraser, he was never any good at anything else in cricket other than bowling. His fielding was less than average, whilst his batting was at times non-existant.

No but my point was being underrated shouldn't get you into this elite list.

cricketfan
Apologies. Siddique was in shanks' 'joke' team and not yours.

i was gonna say lol i never put siddique in my side on this thread.

cricketfan90 wrote:i was gonna say lol i never put siddique in my side on this thread.

Fleming was an odd one though

huh?

I thought you had Fleming in your team as well, cricketfan?

on this thread i havent.