Scarlets V Leinster

by greybeard Wed 21 Sep 2011, 10:49 am

Righty ho. Here we go, week (ahem) two and both teams have 1-0 records. Any suggestion that this is week 4 will be ignored.

Ok, ok, can't be done. As painful as it is for both sets of fans, a won-one-lost-two record is not where they wanted to be, even at this early stage.

So what's going wrong? Well for the home side they have probably greater reason not to panic just yet, a nice win away in Aironi (which won't be achieved as frequently this season as the last) and a tricky LBP in Galway isn't bad. Although some might say they could, and even should, have done better against Connacht after leading for the whole game right up until the last Connacht penalty went over. Munster away is always tough, so no need to panic about that. A win here and a 2-2 record isn't going to set hearts a flutter, but it's acceptable.

Leinster... oh, Leinster. What's going on folks? You're supposed to go from the ridiculous to the sublime, not the other way around. A riot of running rugby against Dragons suddenly consigned to history by a Glasgow team few gave much chance of getting an LBP, let alone the win. Things must improve. No more excuses about WC losses, that's not unique to us. Injuries? Yeah, we've had a few, but then again... to few to mention... uh, sorry.

Actually the injury list is quite deep. With the likes of Danny Riordan possibly being called up this is a team lacking in cohesion and experience together. The depth that we've had has been torn apart. Things seem to be getting worse before they're likely to get better.

The beard-stroking verdict. Home win, no LBP.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:08 pm

24!!!! Count them, 24!!! players missing.

14 at the WC (A record number for any top 15 nation)

and 10 injured. (inc Marshall and Sheridan who would be at the top end of the Academy)

No fecken back row to speak of. People are considering putting Richardt Strauss at 7 ffs.

The Scarlets have their own issues, but if they cannot beat this Leinster team at home they may as well go home to their respective mammys.

by greybeard Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:30 pm

Spoiler:

by Jenifer McLadyboy Wed 21 Sep 2011, 12:50 pm

greybeard wrote:
Spoiler:

At least give us the green Irish version with the harp.

by Guest Wed 21 Sep 2011, 1:16 pm

The Scarlets won a tricky home fixturea gainst Aironi where ouru pack tunred up but our backs were rubbish. Discipline and handling errors cost us the game out in Connacht. A urine poor performance cost us the game out in Munster.

NOw on paper, we should win against Leinster at home. However, going by our packs performance last week....that is not certain. Add to that all of our wc call ups (9) and injuires (5) I think, and that we don't have the biggest squad...we're in deep doo doo, especially in the backs where he have limited experience there if any.

Players like Nacewa are invaluable to Leinster at this time in the season.

I can see this being a very scrappy, hard fought match, and wouldn't be all that surprised to see Leinster scrape a win. Scarlets pack really need to turn up, and am hoping a big home crowd will help. Not feeling v confident though.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Wed 21 Sep 2011, 1:28 pm

rugbydreamer wrote:
Players like Nacewa are invaluable to Leinster at this time in the season.

If only we had another 21 of him. Stop it with the excuses. I refer you to my earlier mammy remark. Smile

by red_stag Wed 21 Sep 2011, 1:42 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:24!!!! Count them, 24!!! players missing.

14 at the WC (A record number for any top 15 nation)

and 10 injured. (inc Marshall and Sheridan who would be at the top end of the Academy)

No fecken back row to speak of. People are considering putting Richardt Strauss at 7 ffs.

The Scarlets have their own issues, but if they cannot beat this Leinster team at home they may as well go home to their respective mammys.

Thats true but Leinster still have a team capable of giving teams a run for their money. Its just that the players they lose are in same positions.

01 van der Merwe

02 Strauss

03 Hagan

06 McLaughlin

07 Ryan

08 Ruddock

11 Fitzgerald

14 Carr

15 Nacewa

However you've been cripplied at lock, centre and halfback. The rest of of team is still very good quality.

by greybeard Wed 21 Sep 2011, 1:44 pm

Ryan and McLaughlin are both out for the next three weeks

by red_stag Wed 21 Sep 2011, 1:46 pm

Ouch in that case - forget my earlier post. Your screwed!!

Can Leinster make the playoffs or will the international absenses leave them too big a climb?

by greybeard Wed 21 Sep 2011, 1:47 pm

red_stag wrote:Your screwed!!

Yes.

And not in the nice way.

by Mickado Wed 21 Sep 2011, 1:50 pm

Is A'uva crocked too? He looked like he was injured last week too.

We're seriously boned with injuries. Can't see us picking up a point this week...

by Jenifer McLadyboy Wed 21 Sep 2011, 2:15 pm

greybeard wrote:Ryan and McLaughlin are both out for the next three weeks

Ryan is gonna be out much longer than 3 weeks judging by what happened last week. Although in 3 weeks time there is a break for the WC until the 28th of October.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Wed 21 Sep 2011, 2:26 pm

red_stag wrote:
11 Fitzgerald

14 Carr

15 Nacewa

However you've been cripplied at lock, centre and halfback. The rest of of team is still very good quality.

Fitz is playing at Centre now because of that crippling.

One of the leading Back row/2nd row guys in the academy Ben Marshall has been injured now too. So the back row has been decimated.

3 at the WC and 3 injured. Only 1 of our 1st 6 back rows is available.

by red_stag Wed 21 Sep 2011, 2:27 pm

I know Jen - it means you've to rejig things about. Its the price of success I'm afraid.

But what about post RWC when the guys come back. Can Leinster make the playoffs still or will the gap be too large?

by greybeard Wed 21 Sep 2011, 2:32 pm

We can make it, but one major obstacle will be the player management scheme. We'll need our internationals more than ever, but could end up with a situation where we will have 3rd and 4th string players playing while fit internationals are being rested after their WC exertions.

Jeez, at this rate we'll need Connacht to return last years favour and get us a HEC spot for next year!

by Mickado Wed 21 Sep 2011, 2:33 pm

greybeard wrote:We can make it, but one major obstacle will be the player management scheme. We'll need our internationals more than ever, but could end up with a situation where we will have 3rd and 4th string players playing while fit internationals are being rested after their WC exertions.

Jeez, at this rate we'll need Connacht to return last years favour and get us a HEC spot for next year!

Or we could just win it again.

by greybeard Wed 21 Sep 2011, 2:33 pm

Good idea, lets do that.

by red_stag Wed 21 Sep 2011, 2:34 pm

I know what you mean about the management scheme. At Munster I'm looking at the likes of Peter O'Mahony and Mike Sherry who I think will be part of the 1st XV by end of year. But they will get no break at all as the guys returning from RWC like Leamy and Varley will need a 'rest'.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Wed 21 Sep 2011, 2:52 pm

Mickado wrote:
greybeard wrote:We can make it, but one major obstacle will be the player management scheme. We'll need our internationals more than ever, but could end up with a situation where we will have 3rd and 4th string players playing while fit internationals are being rested after their WC exertions.

Jeez, at this rate we'll need Connacht to return last years favour and get us a HEC spot for next year!

Or we could just win it again.

TBH I think we should "do a Munster" and just concentrate on the Heino this year. We will be guaranteed all our (uninjured) players for it. We have a reasonable group this year. Focus on a home quarter and flip the rest. Just stay in the top half of the table.

by red_stag Wed 21 Sep 2011, 3:01 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
Mickado wrote:
greybeard wrote:We can make it, but one major obstacle will be the player management scheme. We'll need our internationals more than ever, but could end up with a situation where we will have 3rd and 4th string players playing while fit internationals are being rested after their WC exertions.

Jeez, at this rate we'll need Connacht to return last years favour and get us a HEC spot for next year!

Or we could just win it again.

TBH I think we should "do a Munster" and just concentrate on the Heino this year. We will be guaranteed all our (uninjured) players for it. We have a reasonable group this year. Focus on a home quarter and flip the rest. Just stay in the top half of the table.

Not a bad strategy at all.

by Mickado Wed 21 Sep 2011, 3:02 pm

Jim Mallindar will have a canary.

Won't someone think about Jim Mallindar!!!

by red_stag Wed 21 Sep 2011, 3:03 pm

Mickado wrote:Jim Mallindar will have a canary.

Won't someone think about Jim Mallindar!!!

He can do the same. 6th place in England will get him Heineken Cup.

by Mickado Wed 21 Sep 2011, 3:05 pm

Jim Mallindar will have a canary.

Won't someone think about Jim Mallindar!!!

by greybeard Wed 21 Sep 2011, 3:11 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:TBH I think we should "do a Munster" and just concentrate on the Heino this year. We will be guaranteed all our (uninjured) players for it. We have a reasonable group this year. Focus on a home quarter and flip the rest. Just stay in the top half of the table.

I think we might have to. Connacht probably won't win the HEC to get us in for next year Whistle

by Smirnoffpriest Wed 21 Sep 2011, 3:11 pm

Your are missing a lot of players - but if you look at the Scarlets backs it's hardly awe inspiring - Dale Ford, 14 Lee Williams, 13 Rhodri Gomer-Davies
12 Gareth Maule, 11 Andy Fenby, 10 Dan Newton, 9 Ruki Tipuna

besides Tipuna and Maule thats a pretty weak back line being very young and inexperienced (except maybe Gomer-Davies whose rubbish). Last weeks backline was Ford, 19 (6 games), Lee Wills 24 (52 games), Maule, 23 (46), Gomer 28 (5), Fenby 25 (34), Newton 21 (30), Tipuna 28 (2)

by greybeard Wed 21 Sep 2011, 3:20 pm

Priest, regardless of the backs, I think if the Scarlets keep it tight they'll have this. Both sets of backs are young and relatively inexperienced, but we've so many problems in the forwards I can't see us troubling you in the possession stakes.

I would love to be wrong though.

by Guest Wed 21 Sep 2011, 3:23 pm

You didn't see how our forwards played last weekend then greybeard. Just dreadful Sad

by greybeard Wed 21 Sep 2011, 3:24 pm

We're really talking up this game, aren't we? Erm

by Smirnoffpriest Wed 21 Sep 2011, 3:24 pm

I was just thinking that dreamer - but I would love for greybeard to be right (imagine a Scarlets win from forward domination - the crowd wouldn't know what to make of it!)

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 21 Sep 2011, 3:27 pm

Just for everyones info here's a depth chart, in bold are the ones who are likely to start this weekend

1: Healy-VDM-White
2: Strauss-Cronin-JHW
3: Ross-Hagan-McGrath
4: Cullen-Skyes-Toner
5: Browne-McLaughlin-O'Donoghue
6: SOB-McLaughlin-Ruddock-Ryan
7: Jennings-SOB-Ryan-???
8: Heaslip-SOB-Ruddock-A'vua
9: Reddan-Boss-Willis-Cooney
10: Sexton-Berquist-Madigan-McKingley
11: Fitzgerald-Kearney-Hudson
12: Darcy-McFadden--Fitzgerald-Sheridan
13: BOD-O'Malley-Macken-Fitzgerald
14: Horgan-Carr-Conway
15: Nacewa-Kearney-kearney Jr-Conway

Oh god! Shocked

by Smirnoffpriest Wed 21 Sep 2011, 3:36 pm

Here's my attempt at the Scarlets (prob missed a few out) not awe inspiring, but decent

1. I Thomas - Phil John - Rhodri Jones
2. Rees - Owens - Phillips - Myhill (was behind Lawerence)
3. R Thomas - Manu - Gardiner - Pete (can't remember his name soz, Jones?)
4. Reed - Shingler
5. Day - Welch
6. McCusker - J Edwards - Shingler
7. Turnbull
8. Morgan
9. Knoyle - Tipuna - Davies - Jones
10. Jones - Priestland - Newton - J Williams
11. Lamont - Stoddart - Fenby -
12. JD2 - Williams - Reynolds - Gomer
13. Maule - Lamont - Rheon James - Aled Thomas
14. North- Lee Williams - L Williams - Reynolds
15. Stoddart - Fenby - Evans - Ford

by greybeard Wed 21 Sep 2011, 3:44 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Just for everyones info here's a depth chart, in bold are the ones who are likely to start this weekend
7: Jennings-SOB-Ryan-???

Either Jordi Murphy or Ruddock the younger, probably.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Wed 21 Sep 2011, 4:28 pm

A Ruddock on each flank might not be a bad call actually. With the younger one at 7. (His worst back row position)

Otherwise Murphy (who normally plays 8 I think) With Rhys at 6 which is his best position.

McKinley and Ed O'Donaghue are gone btw.

Also I would have Cullen and Sykes as our 1st choice 2nd row. With Toner ahead of Browne in the pecking order.

Sykes was signed to replace Hines (god help us) and Browne to replace Hogan.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 21 Sep 2011, 4:30 pm

Thanks Priest.

Yeah sorry Jen was done very quickly, my managers are verywhere today!!! Haha!

I think this may actually be quite tight, Leinster are gonna be raging after last week still

by Smirnoffpriest Wed 21 Sep 2011, 4:37 pm

I get the feeling I've missed some out as even though I'm hiding in a corner (which is nice) I've got loads on in work so am dipping in and out of the threads

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 21 Sep 2011, 4:45 pm

Priest-

Snap, I'm the exact same, used to be up against a wall so could see anyone coming now I am just infront of the big boss! Heebeegeebee's!!! Haha!

For this game, i really hope it is not raining at all!

by Rory_Gallagher Wed 21 Sep 2011, 5:23 pm

Leinster fans - could Murphy be developed into a quality 7? I saw him playing at 8 during the JWC but I think Ireland are pretty desperate for 7s. He looked pretty decent when I saw him, didn't see a lot of him though.

Edit: Also note that a certain Sam Warburton played 8 for Wales at the JWC Wink

he turned out alright!

by Guest Wed 21 Sep 2011, 7:29 pm

Priest - Stoddart and North can't start! (oh how I wish....). Reckon the wings will be Fenby and Lee Wlliams.

by Guest Wed 21 Sep 2011, 7:37 pm

To add to Scarlets woes, Turbull is a big doubt for the weekend, the plus being Reynolds is back available for usso guess it balances itself out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15007860.stm?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

by Feckless Rogue Wed 21 Sep 2011, 8:11 pm

I've never seen a game get talked down so much. I'm definitely gonna watch it now. Will probably be an absolute cracker.

by Smirnoffpriest Thu 22 Sep 2011, 11:17 am

Dreamer - I was listing the depth of our squad (including all the players unavailable) to show that we're playing our 4th choice hooker for example and say 3rd choice flyhalf. It was just to compare to Pete's list of Leinsters (impressive) strength in depth.

by Guest Thu 22 Sep 2011, 12:51 pm

Smirnoff aye I know, but the ones in bold are the ones who are supposed to start this weekend, and you've put both North and Stodds in bold is all Smile

by Smirnoffpriest Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:36 pm

Ahh apologies Doh

I didn't even notice I'd done it for some reason - I will attempt to change it now it should have been Lee Williams and Fenby in bold

by greybeard Thu 22 Sep 2011, 4:42 pm

It's called wishful thinking laughing

by Mickado Fri 23 Sep 2011, 12:23 pm

SCARLETS:

15: Dale Ford
14: Lee Williams
13: Nick Reynolds
12: Gareth Maule
11: Andy Fenby
10: Dan Newton
9: Ruki Tipuna

1: Iestyn Thomas CAPTAIN
2: Emyr Phillips
3: Rhys Thomas
4: Aaron Shingler
5: Dominic Day
6: Rob McCusker
7: Johnathan Edwards
8: Ben Morgan

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Craig Hawkins
17: Phil John
18: Rhodri Jones
19: Damian Welch
20: Richie Pugh
21: Gareth Davies
22: Aled Thomas
23: Liam Williams

LEINSTER:

15: Isa Nacewa
14: Fionn Carr
13: Eoin O'Malley
12: Luke Fitzgerald
11: David Kearney
10: Ian Madigan
9: Cillian Willis

1: Heinke van der Merwe
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Nathan White
4: Damian Browne
5: Devin Toner
6: Rhys Ruddock CAPTAIN
7: Jordi Murphy
8: Leo Auva'a

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Jason Harris-Wright
17: Jack McGrath
18: Jamie Hagan
19: Mark Flanagan
20: Ciaran Ruddock
21: John Cooney
22: Brendan Macken
23: Darren Hudson

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 23 Sep 2011, 12:44 pm

Will be interested to see Jordi Murphy at 7. Hope he can develop into a proper 7 for Leinster.

Are the two Ruddocks brothers? What is Ciaran Ruddock like?

by Guest Fri 23 Sep 2011, 12:52 pm

2nd row a big, big worry for the Scarlets, but really looking forward to see how Reynolds and Maule go together in centre. Big ask for Reynolds but I hope he comes good.

And better news I might actually be able to make this match now! Just trying to get hold or a stupid local taxi firm to get me to a train station. Fingers crossed...

by Mickado Fri 23 Sep 2011, 1:18 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Will be interested to see Jordi Murphy at 7. Hope he can develop into a proper 7 for Leinster.

Are the two Ruddocks brothers? What is Ciaran Ruddock like?

Yeah, Ciaran and Rhys are brothers alright. Ciaran is a lock, he hasn't started many games for Leinster, i think only 1 so it's hard to say if he's any good. Rhys looks to have more potential though.

by Smirnoffpriest Fri 23 Sep 2011, 1:46 pm

Why is Welch on the bench again? It's crazy, especially as Singlers in instead of him - I like Shingler but he needs to bulk up more to play lock

by Guest Fri 23 Sep 2011, 1:52 pm

Reynolds is a very exciting player. Hopefully with Maule back, we'll never have to see the monstrosity that was Aled Thomas and Gomer-Davies together in the midfield boxing

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