The ABE test.

by Portnoy Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 13:10

First topic message reminder :

ABE (anyone but England).

Just respond honestly.

by robbo277 Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 16:30

I think so. Monaco have, so why not Leicester?

by caoimhincentre Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 16:34

leave hinds and parks out of this

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 17:14

caoimhincentre wrote:leave hinds and parks out of this

Who is hinds? If that's supposed to be Hines as in Nathan Hines I would assume you would have done some homework and know that he qualifiesfor Scotland through blood and not residency

by Glas a du Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 17:31

Ah, bloooood!

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 17:35

Blood hinds - v posh!

by CurlyOsp Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 18:00

Boyne wrote:
Or used by the (mostly) Welsh and Scots (less so) to coat tail Irish successes.

Wait, what?

On an international level, this is jibberish.

As a Welshman, I've no problem being called a celt. In fact I've been fairly proud of the lable, purely because of the good memories I've had with my "celtic cousins" the Irish come six nations time.

I've always said they're the best opposition to enjoy a match with, but this good nature isn't reflected by the arrogance of some posters on here..

by Portnoy Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 18:11

Interesting scores so far in the poll so far.

I'll produce an analysis next week.

I have left the vote cancel open. But then equally I've taken a copy of scores as of the timestamp of this post.

by Cymroglan Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 18:18

Cymroglan wrote:Portnoy Why not have the option...

I'm Celt and naturally want my own team to win.I'm only interested in other results if they have a impact on my team.

That gets my vote.

Why not have that option.

by Portnoy Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 18:27

Because it's an ABE poll/thread Cym.

I thought that on that basis that I split the options fairly. I did leave out English posters who are ABE. They are disenfranchised. But I'll scour the posts for any of them if they turn up and give them an honourable mention.

ed: plus I suspect that you (c/w)ould vote in another option available somewhere on the options available.

by aitchw Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 18:40

I have to confess this thread's kind of depressing without being surprising. This is the only team game I ever wanted to play and it continues to be the game I love to watch above all others. I naturally want to see my team win but feel uneasy and slightly miffed when they don't win well. I can and do watch any international match available to me irrespective of who is playing and will generally support any of the home nations except when they are playing mine. Even then, I will happily applaud good play by either side. To me, the game comes first, then the rivalry and the banter. If the day ever comes when I can't enjoy a pint with rival supporters I will know the game is no longer worth a light.

Maybe I belong to a different era.

by Cymroglan Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 18:42

+1

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 18:45

aitchw wrote:I have to confess this thread's kind of depressing without being surprising. This is the only team game I ever wanted to play and it continues to be the game I love to watch above all others. I naturally want to see my team win but feel uneasy and slightly miffed when they don't win well. I can and do watch any international match available to me irrespective of who is playing and will generally support any of the home nations except when they are playing mine. Even then, I will happily applaud good play by either side. To me, the game comes first, then the rivalry and the banter. If the day ever comes when I can't enjoy a pint with rival supporters I will know the game is no longer worth a light.

Maybe I belong to a different era.

+1

Nah, those who wish to persist with the ABE myth belong to the different era, it is a thing of the past

by Portnoy Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 18:51

I belong to almost exactly the same era as you aitch. And to be honest I spent the best part of 45-50 years believing (and I still believe in a rugby ground) that there is a unique following for sporting considerations in our game.

However these rugby bloggy-things are different because they only attract the most committed, literate and ultimately opinionated followers,

by Glas a du Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 19:11

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
aitchw wrote:I have to confess this thread's kind of depressing without being surprising. This is the only team game I ever wanted to play and it continues to be the game I love to watch above all others. I naturally want to see my team win but feel uneasy and slightly miffed when they don't win well. I can and do watch any international match available to me irrespective of who is playing and will generally support any of the home nations except when they are playing mine. Even then, I will happily applaud good play by either side. To me, the game comes first, then the rivalry and the banter. If the day ever comes when I can't enjoy a pint with rival supporters I will know the game is no longer worth a light.

Maybe I belong to a different era.
+1 Nah, those who wish to persist with the ABE myth belong to the different era, it is a thing of the past

Is it Flip! I make no apology for ABE. That does not preclude me from banter over pints or turn me into a soccer hooligan.

by niwatts Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 19:25

Celts, Saxons, you're both ultimately derived from peoples that herald from modern day German.

by Portnoy Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 19:37

As & glas,

There does appear to be an underlying ABE sentiment on this board at least.

Look at the on-going poll so far. It's plain to see.

It will be interesting to see in the morning once the antipodeans have had their say.

And I am just talking of elephants in rooms. I know that I always do that. But never with malicious intent.

I am as welcome in the pub now as a fart in a diving suit. And why? Because I just speak my mind. I'm not inherently malicious. But I unashamedly will continue to constantly question and probe the rugby situation and the cosiness of the mutual status quo.

Stuff that most people don't do because they don't want to rock the boat.

by Cymroglan Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 19:43

.And it's people like you who create it.

by Portnoy Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 19:51

Cym, create what? The easy consensus or the exposure of the flaws underpinning the consensus?

I do very, very little wumming. I just turn over old sods.

by Cymroglan Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 19:52

The rest of us have moved on

by Pot Hale Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 19:56

Celtic, schmeltic.

Can we have an ABWAF poll as well, please?

Wales - meh. Warren Gatland's smugness would put me off my porridge for life.

Australia are off my Christmas card list following their SUDS reaction to their loss against Ireland.

France are just bloody awful - they turn up to play a match in Bordeaux, half a one in Dublin, stumble around against Fiji, and run up the white flag against New Zealand. I hope England get to tan them with three tries by Banahan and a 10 second swan dive from Ashton.

The Boks have gone quietly and very impressively about their work. Hopefully PdV decides to backpack his way home through Australasia using Billy to cook his tea each night in every town whilst wearing a tutu.

If Ireland can't get to the final, then I hope England does against the Boks. And after scoring a penalty try each in extra time, one of them wins with a drop goal 10-7. Perfect end to a great World Cup.

by **Notch** Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 19:58

BlueMuff wrote:
red_stag wrote:I find the notion of being labelled "Celtic" actually insulting. However I am Irish and couldn't really care if England won or lost.

+1

Irish and couldnt care less or more about England than Wales or Scotland.

Have to agree, being Irish doesn't mean I particularly care about Wales or Scotland. I would support Scotland a bit because I lived in the country for the best part of 10 years and went to many games at Murrayfield. Also the Scots are very enthusiastic about Ireland, so yes I could see clear to supporting Scotland against England but not with a passion. I hope they do well, is all. It's not so much England losing as them doing well I enjoy. I have a place in my heart for Scotland as a country, having spent so long there it's like a second home.

When it comes down to England or Wales, I'm honestly neutral and would rather just see a good game of rugby with the better team prevailing. It's a rivalry I enjoy, there is always a lot of passion involved. But I wouldn't have a preference for one team over the other. So I haven't really voted in this poll because none of the options really get that.

by Glas a du Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 19:59

Are you that bloke that does Mrs Brown's boys?

by **Notch** Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 19:59

Portnoy wrote:I belong to almost exactly the same era as you aitch. And to be honest I spent the best part of 45-50 years believing (and I still believe in a rugby ground) that there is a unique following for sporting considerations in our game.

However these rugby bloggy-things are different because they only attract the most committed, literate and ultimately opinionated followers,

Yeah, very true. Once you start thinking of these as real life you're in trouble.

by Portnoy Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 20:00

Cymroglan wrote:The rest of us have moved on

Really? Moved in to a mutually comforting consensus?

Not according to this poll they haven't.

Some people just can't face challenging questions.

And who exactly is the 'rest of us'? You sound like a populist poitician.

by Portnoy Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 20:04

Pot Hale wrote:Celtic, schmeltic.

Can we have an ABWAF poll as well, please?

Of course you can. Just set it up.

by Cymroglan Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 20:05

The poll did not give the Celt the option of only being interested in their own team.
And for that reason I did not vote.

by Portnoy Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 20:07

Glas a du wrote:Are you that bloke that does Mrs Brown's boys?

Sorry Glas. That went straight over my head. Film? TV? Book? I have absolutely no idea. Sorry.

by Glas a du Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 20:10

I was talking to pot hale.

by Portnoy Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 20:10

Cymroglan wrote:The poll did not give the Celt the option of only being interested in their own team.
And for that reason I did not vote.

Fair enough. The poll was about Anyone But England. And on that basis I thought it was fair enough.

In your case then a no vote is entirely appropriate. It wasn't compulsory.

by Cymroglan Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 20:13

The poll was about the Celts and England and the Celts did not have a option of only being interested in their own team.
If this Poll is not about us Celts then change the way the poll is worded.

by Portnoy Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 20:21

Cymroglan wrote:The poll was about the Celts and England and the Celts did not have a option of only being interested in their own team.
If this Poll is not about us Celts then change the way the poll is worded.

It was nothing to do with the Celts. It was about antipathy to England. 'Celts' was just shorthand for other non-English countries and that is reasonable (apart from Stag who doesn't see himself as a Celt apparently).

If you want a specialist poll then set one up.

by Cymroglan Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 20:23

No I don't need a poll I'm not that insecure.

by Portnoy Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 20:30

Then maybe this continuing debate is pointless and as you had no reason to partake but you wanted to get the ballot paper changed then I feel that the feeling of insecurity must be not only mine.

by Glas a du Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 20:36

by Pot Hale Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 20:38

Glas a du wrote:Are you that bloke that does Mrs Brown's boys?

That's a rather alarming question. Perhaps you'd care to re-phrase it?

by eirebilly Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 21:04

What you have done Portnoy is try to generate an issue. You have tried to combine Wales, Scotland and Ireland into one group and try to assume that they are all ABE's. A generalisation of 3 very different countries and tried to tar us all with the same brush, in that we must all be against England.

Although that may be the case with a few people it does not represent anything. This is just as sad as your attempt to slate NZ for their running of the RWC.

by Guest Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 21:09

eirebilly wrote:What you have done Portnoy is try to generate an issue. You have tried to combine Wales, Scotland and Ireland into one group and try to assume that they are all ABE's. A generalisation of 3 very different countries and tried to tar us all with the same brush, in that we must all be against England.

Although that may be the case with a few people it does not represent anything. This is just as sad as your attempt to slate NZ for their running of the RWC.

+1, well said.

by Pot Hale Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 21:30

Pot Hale wrote:
Glas a du wrote:Are you that bloke that does Mrs Brown's boys?

That's a rather alarming question, Glas a du. Perhaps you'd care to re-phrase it?

by Gatts Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 21:32

+2

market making portnoy, you would be a good journo because you are making a story out of your misguided perception.

I am Welsh and shouted proudly with my English mates when England won in 2003 (it was the difference between a great party afterwards and a really depressing one!)

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 22:08

For the 6 nations, anyone but the Celts, and that include France and Italy.

by Gatts Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 22:11

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:For the 6 nations, anyone but the Celts, and that include France and Italy.

What a ridiculous statement. It really beggars belief that even if you are a WUM you would out your name to such a pathetic comment.

by Cymroglan Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 22:16

No it's a perfectly logical statement he wants England to win.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 29 Sep 2011 - 22:17

Gatts wrote:
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:For the 6 nations, anyone but the Celts, and that include France and Italy.

What a ridiculous statement. It really beggars belief that even if you are a WUM you would out your name to such a pathetic comment.

What its ridiculous to want the team I support to win?

Surely is less ridiculous than saying i dont care if the team i support wins so long as the team i hate doesnt win?

It beggars belief that you could be so offended by someone supporting England.

by Glas a du Fri 30 Sep 2011 - 6:29

Pot Hale wrote:
Glas a du wrote:Are you that bloke that does Mrs Brown's boys?

That's a rather alarming question. Perhaps you'd care to re-phrase it?

Ah! So you're a priest then.

by Glas a du Fri 30 Sep 2011 - 6:31

Gatts wrote:+2

market making portnoy, you would be a good journo because you are making a story out of your misguided perception.

I am Welsh and shouted proudly with my English mates when England won in 2003 (it was the difference between a great party afterwards and a really depressing one!)

Traitor! Ffs mun don't you know your history!

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Fri 30 Sep 2011 - 7:45

Portnoy wrote:As & glas,

There does appear to be an underlying ABE sentiment on this board at least.

Look at the on-going poll so far. It's plain to see.

It will be interesting to see in the morning once the antipodeans have had their say.

And I am just talking of elephants in rooms. I know that I always do that. But never with malicious intent.

I am as welcome in the pub now as a fart in a diving suit. And why? Because I just speak my mind. I'm not inherently malicious. But I unashamedly will continue to constantly question and probe the rugby situation and the cosiness of the mutual status quo.

Stuff that most people don't do because they don't want to rock the boat.

Portnoy, jeez, does your ego know no bounds? Do you imagine yourself as a latter day Jeebus? Or do you see yourself more as a Che Guevara? Self-appointed hero of the 'people' fighting the authorities (="the cosiness of the mutual status quo")?

What 'elephants' are you talking about? A selection (yes, mine) of your recent posts:

'How should the RWC be organised in the future?': https://www.606v2.com/t14836-how-should-the-rwc-be-organised-in-future
'Shane Williams - the last of an endangered rugby species?': https://www.606v2.com/t15046-shane-williams-the-last-of-an-endangered-rugby-species
'RWC: why the empty seats in NZ?': https://www.606v2.com/t14884-rwc-why-the-empty-seats-in-new-zealand
'The slaughter of the innocents': https://www.606v2.com/t14312-the-slaughter-of-the-innocents
'Bye bye Scotland?': https://www.606v2.com/t14601-bye-bye-scotland
'Am I alone in preferring the 6Ns to the RWC? Intertwined with a convoluted debate': https://www.606v2.com/t14540-am-i-alone-in-preferring-the-6ns-to-the-rwc-intertwined-with-a-convoluted-debate
'Radio Five's RWC magazine programme': https://www.606v2.com/f32p100-international

Elephants in the room? Hardly the stuff of controversy? seems to me like you're in danger of blowing smoke somewhere tho?

"But I unashamedly will continue to constantly question and probe the rugby situation" - really? Seems to me like you'll continue to ask questions which reinforce your own view? Let's take this post as an example? You believe that all "Celts" hate the English? I won't speak for others, but I can assure you that I don't - I may hate the handful of arrogant English Muppet on here that post their misinformed, deliberately antagonistic bile, but my dislike of that ilk of poster from other nations is no less; I really enjoy good, reasoned debate with the vast majority of English supporters on here however (but you don't really want to hear that cos it doesn't suit your view, right?)

"I am as welcome in the pub now as a fart in a diving suit. And why? Because I just speak my mind" - wow, imagination-running-riot alert? or another of your self-reinforcing prophecies, oh great one?

I promised myself I would just ignore your stuff, but I couldn't let it go - mea culpa furious

by Glas a du Fri 30 Sep 2011 - 7:52

Asbo ABE does not mean we hate individuals, or an entire race, it just means that we are aware of our history. Do you think Dutch people cop flak for ABG? I don't think so. What difference should proximity make in historical terms? There has been no truth and reconciliation hearings in Wales and we are still oppressed. It is England's fate as a Colonial force. Give us our freedom and we willl support you against all comers.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Fri 30 Sep 2011 - 7:54

Glas a du wrote:Asbo ABE does not mean we hate individuals, or an entire race, it just means that we are aware of our history. Do you think Dutch people cop flak for ABG? I don't think so. What difference should proximity make in historical terms? There has been no truth and reconciliation hearings in Wales and we are still oppressed. It is England's fate as a Colonial force. Give us our freedom and we willl support you against all comers.

Agreed, but I suspect that's how Portnoy would like to interpret it

by Glas a du Fri 30 Sep 2011 - 8:02

I couldn't care less in fact.

by eirebilly Fri 30 Sep 2011 - 8:22

What got me with this article is not the fact that i want Ireland to beat everyone but that it was a painful attempt to play the vicitimisation card buy lumping Wales, Ireland and Scotland into one group and saying that we all just wanted England to lose.

Trust me, we all want our home nations to win but there are very few people that invest so much time in watching rugby only to want England to lose.

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