Rugby Divers

After watching H Brussouw tonight and Yachvilly(sp) against J Kaino the other evening, i think its time players should be cited for that type of behaviour. Im not talking about whether what happened to them was illegal or not, that is not the point. This diving has been creeping into our game for a while and is very depressing- are we going to become like football soon? Brussouw was 'struck in the face' yes, but by a flat hand and it was really a push, going down like that was bad enough but the crying to the ref is even worse. Yachvilly the other night reminded me of Rivaldo. This isnt only targeted at those 2 players, they have just been 2 recent examples. If this behaviour was stamped out by IRB surely it would benefit the game, and would be welcomed by the rugby community?

get a life, Brussow didn't dive, he fell over backwards

Why get a life? im not trying to have a dig at your player, im talking about the game in general using his example, you dont have to get upset and defend him.

kingjohn7 would the perpetratrors have been justifiably punished if the likes of Yachvilli didn't go down? Kaino could have got away with his illegal action if Yachvilli didn't go down.

Of course you are having a dig at the player. why else would you mention it.

It does come to something when Ashton gets more grief for his diving than the likes of Byrne and Azzam ever did.

The whole citing setup is there to make sure that players get punished for serious transgressions the ref may have missed.

Personally I think that refs should be allowed to yellow-card a player for play-acting. I'm Welsh, but I would have been happy to see Byrne get one or two in the last few years.

I totally agree. Lee Byrne was one of the first players I saw do this and it literally disgusts me. Yachvili the other night should have been carded.

biltongbek wrote:get a life, Brussow didn't dive, he fell over backwards

So your saying Brussow didn't Hollywood it at all?

Yes he did make it clear he was hit, but saying he dived is nonsense.

The football element has been rearing its ugly head alot in rugby lately. I am still really peed of at the Irish player (think it was Earles?) waving his hands in a footballesq manner asking for a yellow card to the referee in a warm up match against France. I never want to see that again.

biltongbek wrote:Yes he did make it clear he was hit, but saying he dived is nonsense.

Personally i think he dived, you just don't need to hit the deck in a dramatic fashion to make the ref aware you were pushed in the face.

I just looked at it in slowmotion, do yourselves a favour and watch that again, if that was a dive then you have no clue what a dive is.

I'll admit i havent seen it again. You got a link?

Yachvilli's incident was a forearm to the face in order to block him from chasing the ball. That was illegal and needed to be dealt with, I wasn't pleased with how he went about getting justice but it's not really a dive as there was clearly contact and not all like the Rivaldo incident where the ball hit his legs and he grabbed his face. Not in the same league as that embarrassment.

I've not seen the Brussow incident (it's waiting on my Sky+ box for later), what happened there?

I am still really peed of at the Irish player (think it was Earles?) waving his hands in a footballesq manner asking for a yellow card to the referee in a warm up match against France

I'm not at all happy with this type of behaviour (I'm not talking about the Earls incident because I didn't see it) and bans should be handed out for these actions as fines should be handed out for teams that swarm the referee or the touch judges and captains need to reprimanded should they over step the mark. I've seen a couple of captains continue to argue with the referee after he's asked them to return to their team this season, that sort of thing is not on.

Brussouw turned his back to williams and was going to walk away, he turned around to look at williams and as he turned his face he got struck, there was sure as sh...t no deliberate dive there, it was a push in the face with the heel of the hand.

nathan wrote:I'll admit i havent seen it again. You got a link?

sorry no link i went back on the pvr, it happened on the 68 mintue mark

If a player is hit, then the best way to draw the refs attention to it is not by falling over, clutching your face, rolling around. It’s by getting up and going banana’s at the perpetrator. I’ve always thought that’s far more effective.

holy mackerel, there is a difference between "falling over" and being struck to the ground.

Why don't you just rather watch it again and then be at least objective about it.

What about Ashtons delayed reaction from the Tuilagi punches? He looked fine at the time then wanders over to have a sit down and starts acting like. It was clear from the replays the shots barely touched him, yet the mincing led to and extremly harsh yellow for the poor lad.

eirebilly wrote:The football element has been rearing its ugly head alot in rugby lately. I am still really peed of at the Irish player (think it was Earles?) waving his hands in a footballesq manner asking for a yellow card to the referee in a warm up match against France. I never want to see that again.

It was Luke Fitzgerald and it was bang out of order. He should be ashamed of himself.

On the defence that the citing procedure is there to catch foul play that's missed by the match-day officials, that misses the point. What good is it to see an opponent get suspended the week after his foul play, missed by the ref, has contributed your side's defeat? Of course players should bring the ref's attention to elbows and punches.

eirebilly wrote:The football element has been rearing its ugly head alot in rugby lately. I am still really peed of at the Irish player (think it was Earles?) waving his hands in a footballesq manner asking for a yellow card to the referee in a warm up match against France. I never want to see that again.

Borthwick did the same thing in the 6n in 2010 (can't remember against whom). Really put me off the guy and i've never really liked him since.

Brussouw didn't dive, as far as I can see. He may get cited for hitting Williams to try and get him off in the first place though.

Not the finest passage of play, that.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:
On the defence that the citing procedure is there to catch foul play that's missed by the match-day officials, that misses the point. What good is it to see an opponent get suspended the week after his foul play, missed by the ref, has contributed your side's defeat? Of course players should bring the ref's attention to elbows and punches.

I agree you should bring it to the ref's attention. I'm saying that you shouldn't ham it up to make the decision as harsh as you can. If they get penalised, and later cited, so be it. Don't pretend to trip or do a wendyball dance to try and make it a yellow.

I believe anyone who tries to do the referee's job for them by "brandishing cards" a la Fitzgerald should be given a yellow themselves.

Blatant divers should have a penalty awarded against them.

No, I agree with you there.

I should say I haven't seen the Brussow incident.

Or you could scream blue murder that you got gouged then watch the replay and realise that you were being a twerp HASKEL

the Samoans off the ball where just shocking! Everytime i looked there was someone trying to behead schalk burger or get a piece of Steyn.Boks showed a lot of discipline in my opinion especially known hot heads like Schalla who took the high ground many times and jsut put his hands up and walked away.

As for the Brussow incident? do i think Heinrich should have been on the floor like he's been shot by a high powered rifle ,no . Did williams deserve the red ?probably considering he was holding brussows jersey to slow him down then had the audacity to get up and give him a shot in the face for trying to free himself

How can a thread about diving not include Andy Haden!?

Bullsbok wrote:the Samoans off the ball where just shocking! Everytime i looked there was someone trying to behead schalk burger or get a piece of Steyn.Boks showed a lot of discipline in my opinion especially known hot heads like Schalla who took the high ground many times and jsut put his hands up and walked away.

I thought burger was guilty of that a few times, Ref didn't penalise him mind you or the numerous other times Samoa did the same thing.

Bullsbok wrote:As for the Brussow incident? do i think Heinrich should have been on the floor like he's been shot by a high powered rifle ,no . Did williams deserve the red ?probably considering he was holding brussows jersey to slow him down then had the audacity to get up and give him a shot in the face for trying to free himself

I see you missed the the part where he was constantly striking him in the back of the head out of your comment.

Well if williams had let him get on with the game instead of trying to be silly he wouldnt have had Brussow bashing his arm to free himself .

The card waving, running to the Ref crying attitude has crypt into our game of late, I blame the Celtic league, sorry ML, sorry Rabo or is it the Pro 12.

The Standard of Refereeing in that league is a joke; you can't blame the players for crying foul when the ref says play on.

Can't do with the wendyball antics or the gesturing for a carding in any shape or form. Just like I can't stand it when forwards go down feigning injury to get a breather or allow their side to get back in shape then promptly jump to their feet as if nothing happened when ready. It's stuff that needs stamping on by refs and citing officers though I don't know if it falls within the guidelines for citing. I've noticed some refs not holding up play for injuries quite often this WC, maybe not such a bad thing if it encourages players not to make a meal of situations. Not convinced today's instance wasn't marginal though Yachvili was well out of order, there was barely contact.

Drinks breaks annoy me more.

Bullsbok wrote:Well if williams had let him get on with the game instead of trying to be silly he wouldnt have had Brussow bashing his arm to free himself .

You sure it was his arm and not the back of his head?

Brussow was within his rights to try and free himself but clouting Williams around the head was going abit too far, if Williams had grabbed his face as he was on the receiving end of more than 1 'strike to the face' the boks would have been going mad about him buying a decision, but because it was a big bad Samoan that pussed Brussow it was the right decision? Rubbish!
Brussow went down like a sack of sh_ t and bought that red card, yellow it should have been, red card, no chance

As much as it pains me to say it, Stephen Ferris has been prone to the odd theatrical dive. I hate to see it, it's a real wendyball mentality and one we don't need in rugby union.

HERSH wrote:Drinks breaks annoy me more.

The better referees make it clear that drinks are only allowed to be brought on with their permission.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

HERSH wrote:Drinks breaks annoy me more.

The better referees make it clear that drinks are only allowed to be brought on with their permission.

Then proceed to allow them to come on every time theres a tackle.


But then the better referees make it clear to the Ospreys that replacements are only allowed to be bought on with their permission. And lets not mention fresh balls

GangGreen wrote:Brussow was within his rights to try and free himself but clouting Williams around the head was going abit too far, if Williams had grabbed his face as he was on the receiving end of more than 1 'strike to the face' the boks would have been going mad about him buying a decision, but because it was a big bad Samoan that pussed Brussow it was the right decision? Rubbish!
Brussow went down like a sack of sh_ t and bought that red card, yellow it should have been, red card, no chance

So you are now the expert on how Brussow should have gone down. I would like to know how he bought that red card.

He was hit, went down, got onto his knees, Owens stopped the game came walking over, Brussow looked at him, said two words(can't lipread) and walked away.

I do not understand why this is an issue. I agree the red card was harsh, but that was not up to brussow, that was up to the NH assistant referee.

Please watch it again and instead of thinking this is yet another shot you can take at a south african rugby player, be objective.

Unfortunately, this is now professional sport, and winning is all that matters. As such, these types of incident (play-acting, exageration and generally attempting to influence the ref) are only going to get worse unless the IRB and the refs do something in very short order to stamp them out.

Fines and long suspensions for players indulging in such gamesmanship are I think the only way rugby will keep ahead of the acting. Unfortunately for football I think it is far too late - many (most?) players are as conocerned with playing the ref as they are playing their opposition.

Sonny Bill went down like a sack of spuds in a game too. Was not happy about that at all.

Biltong I've not got a problem with any of the boks players (except Schulk Burger for that gouge on the lions tour) and really enjoyed what both teams brought to the game today. However after watching it back I honestly cant see how you can say he didn't milk that call. The guy was pushed, yes I know it was in the face but come on, this is a contact sport and if Brussow cant take a push without landing on his backside then I sure don't know how he wasn't ran over all day by the Samoans.

atleast it rarely happens, and not like how it is in football with every other challenge

GangGreen wrote:Biltong I've not got a problem with any of the boks players (except Schulk Burger for that gouge on the lions tour) and really enjoyed what both teams brought to the game today. However after watching it back I honestly cant see how you can say he didn't milk that call. The guy was pushed, yes I know it was in the face but come on, this is a contact sport and if Brussow cant take a push without landing on his backside then I sure don't know how he wasn't ran over all day by the Samoans.

GangGreen then we will most likely disagree on many more points.

Just a point of note, if that was the other way round, no focus would have been on williams, we will all have heard the story about another SA thug, well doe=ne for achieving to change the focus to SA once again.

I've just got to ask. When has Lee Byrne dived? It might well be the old rose tinted glasses being an Osp and Welsh fan, but I can't remember seeing him dive?!?

c_b_g_b_OSP wrote:I've just got to ask. When has Lee Byrne dived? It might well be the old rose tinted glasses being an Osp and Welsh fan, but I can't remember seeing him dive?!?

Sorry i forgot about that sniper on the grassy knoll

Brussow should be ashamed of himself... it wasn't that he fell over... it was that he stay on the ground to milk the ref and make him think he had a serious injury.

5 seconds later he jumps up, no blood, no hazy eyes nothing.. just an angry look on his face.

Was it illegal.. technically yes but it wasn't a punch, it as just a palm off and we see those 5 times a match in reality.
If that was a red card or even a yellow Steve Thompson, Bakkies Botha, Brad Thorn, Nathan Hines et al probably should have been sent off every other match they have ever played.

He was being provoked but he hit the Samoan with his fists much harder than was returned... the only difference was that the Samoan hit him in the face.

He should count himself lucky he wasn't facing off to Freddie Mendez