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Nigel Owens abuse

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Post by mckay1402 Sat 01 Oct 2011, 1:45 pm

Not sure if anyone has seen this but the abuse Nigel Owens is getting on Twitter and Facebook from Samoa fans is shocking. For me this makes me glad they are no longer in the RWC.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Nigel-Ref-Owens/285269013216
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Post by Notch Sat 01 Oct 2011, 1:46 pm

Yeah, it's disgraceful alright. I'm very disappointed to have read some of the things that have been said about him. It's bad for the game.
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sat 01 Oct 2011, 1:48 pm

I like the guy who says that Joubert keeps the game flowing, guess he posted that beofre todays game

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Post by Guest Sat 01 Oct 2011, 1:52 pm

There are some disgusting reponses from "fans" of the game there. Absolutely horrible, and I agree with Notch, tis bad for the game. I'm actually a bit shocked by it to be honest, I know fans can have a gripe about the ref but this just takes it so far beyond that. Horrible.

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Post by Ozzy3213 Sat 01 Oct 2011, 1:54 pm

I can't access that link, can somebody give a brief outline of what you're talking about please?

For what it's worth, and before I see any of the comments, I thought Nigel had his worst game of the tournament so far, but that does not in any way justify any personal abuse if that is what that link takes you to.
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:00 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:I can't access that link, can somebody give a brief outline of what you're talking about please?

For what it's worth, and before I see any of the comments, I thought Nigel had his worst game of the tournament so far, but that does not in any way justify any personal abuse if that is what that link takes you to.

He and the IRB are racists, and hes gay. One person seems slighlty confussed between " f...up" and "f...off" but the sentiment is clear.
Apparenly some people arent sure how he is still alive, and whether he or Wayne Barnes eats more ass.

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Post by Notch Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:01 pm

Pete, he's been accused of certain sections of the Samoa support of being a racist and a cheat.

It's really a low point for the sport when you see a referee being treated like that. He's been attacked on facebook and twitter. Kind of appalling.


Last edited by Notch on Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Guest Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:01 pm

Some Samoan "fans" are attacking him on his facebook page Pete after he reffed the match between them and SA. Some of it's horrible stuff to read, it really is.

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Post by Ozzy3213 Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:03 pm

You have to wonder about the mentality of people who go online to type that sort of nonsense.
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Post by Notch Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:05 pm

And it's really this that annoys me, because this is the kind of thing that sparks it off;

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/5716454/Angry-Samoan-star-Sapolu-tweets-of-referee-bias

You've got a player of one of the teams he reffed coming onto twitter and calling him racist and biased. That's too incendiary and irresponsible, the IRB will have to take action. Of course he now regrets it and has removed it, but it should never have gone up in the first place. Drunken tweeting about referees is madness for an international player and it is practically bringing the game into disrepute. I'm sure he'll face action.
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Post by Notch Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:07 pm

No, it IS bringing the game into disrepute.
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Post by Ozzy3213 Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:10 pm

And he has already been warned Notch, he has to face a ban.
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Post by Cymroglan Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:12 pm

Was it the same player ? well if it is then what a idiot he is.

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Post by eirebilly Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:14 pm

Shocking stuff. I can't read half of the stuff because its written in that unintelligent text talk. Its terrible to see a ref be treated like that but Nigel is holding his head high.
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Post by Notch Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:15 pm

Cymroglan wrote:Was it the same player ? well if it is then what a idiot he is.

Yep same guy. Seems like an irresponsible child when it comes to him and social networking.
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Post by Josiah Maiestas Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:18 pm

If Samoa were any good, they would've used some bad calls for extra motivation. They couldn't, and they are out, nothing more needs saying.
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Post by Cymroglan Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:21 pm

He had a warning and obviously that did not work action needs to be taken now.

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Post by HammerofThunor Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:23 pm

Just want to say there a good few Samoan fans posting on there having a go at the abuse. Saying it disrespects the team and is way out of line. It's not all Samoans

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:23 pm

Of course he now regrets it and has removed it, but it should never have gone up in the first place.
So nobody should ever air their opinions about anybody? Communist China then...
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Post by Rollmeister Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:25 pm

That really is ugly. Both the comments on Nigel Owens' FB page, and the tweets. Samoan player needs to be seriously sanctioned, that really isn't on. Samoan RFU needs to have a good long look at the actions of their players and fans.

It's ok to have opinions, but calling people racist, and foul-mouthed rants achieve nothing, and are purposely hurtful.
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Post by Standulstermen Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:26 pm

I dont think we can taint Samoa in general with what a few idiots are saying on facebook but in reality Samoan Rugby should come out and distance itself from what has gone on to maintain any credibility. Their captain spoke poorly after the game (nothing like what has been said on facebook) and this unfortunately sets a bad example.

Sapolu should be given 6months off to think about his use of the internet and if i were in charge at Gloucester i would be thinking about his conduct as well.

In reality the outward placing of blame is hindering Samoan rugby far more than 4 day turnarounds or poor officiating. Until they look at themselves and their own deficiencies they will not reach the top table. A dark day for rugby and this episode must be detrimental to their arguments about unfavourable treatment by the scheduling.

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Post by Cymroglan Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:26 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:Just want to say there a good few Samoan fans posting on there having a go at the abuse. Saying it disrespects the team and is way out of line. It's not all Samoans

And well done them I hope somebody thanks them.

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Post by HammerofThunor Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:27 pm

What exactly can the Samoan union do about their fans? Eliota needs to be sanctioned of course but what can they do about the fans?

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Post by Standulstermen Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:28 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:What exactly can the Samoan union do about their fans? Eliota needs to be sanctioned of course but what can they do about the fans?

They cant do anything except distance themselves from the comments. They should do that though

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Post by HammerofThunor Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:29 pm

Yes they should.

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Post by Rollmeister Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:33 pm

They should distance themselves from the comments. They should also have had a word with the captain for criticising the ref too. If he honestly thought Owens had a bad game, there are channels to follow, and they do not include the media.
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Post by Guest Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:37 pm

The comments from these 'fans' are very poor, but it's not just Samoa. I think if you were to go on any forum (especially badly moderated ones) there will be comments like this from 'fans' of all nations. Especially when their team has lost. The Internet brings out the worst in people, or attracts the worst people Rolling Eyes

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Post by debaters1 Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:37 pm

Well, criticise them officially? You know, condemn homophobic postings and unfounded allegations of racism?! You know, those little things.

A referee may be biased, but playing the race card when something goes against you is just swollocks. Cheap even; the 'We have different colour skin and or ethnic or religious backround so if we're on the receiving end of poor officiating it must be based on that....' mentality.

Uncool on all counts.

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Post by Notch Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:37 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
Of course he now regrets it and has removed it, but it should never have gone up in the first place.
So nobody should ever air their opinions about anybody? Communist China then...

Don't be silly. Samoa Captian Mahonri Schwalger at the press conference said "I'm pretty disappointed. I'm proud of the boys and they gave it all they had. The referee was pretty hard on us. There were a few calls on the field if it goes our way we probably put more points on the South Africans." Thats fair enough. Sapolo initially called Owens a 'racist biased pr!ck'. One of them is airing their opinion, the other is being abusive and libellous.

I'm sure you can see the difference! Nobody is having a go at Schwalger.
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Post by greybeard Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:38 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
Of course he now regrets it and has removed it, but it should never have gone up in the first place.
So nobody should ever air their opinions about anybody? Communist China then...

Of course not. But freedom of speech does not protect abuse.

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Post by doctornickolas Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:50 pm

So happy the Samoans are out of this tournament.

They are like petulant children when they don't get their own way. Except with much more hostility and ignorance.

Good riddance to them. I think they forget they would not even be competing if they weren't funded by the IRB, which in turn means they are funded by other countries.


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Post by Notch Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:53 pm

I think that is unfair as well doctornickolas. I've certainly seen fans from all nations react badly to losing or abuse the ref or something at times. I've been concerned it's becoming much more prevalent in the game as a whole actually- especially in the Pro12.

But there's 29 Samoan players who haven't used the medium of twitter to confirm their own immaturity and ignorance so I can't share your sentiments at all.
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Post by Guest Sat 01 Oct 2011, 2:55 pm

Notch wrote:I think that is unfair as well doctornickolas. I've certainly seen fans from all nations react badly to losing or abuse the ref or something at times. I've been concerned it's becoming much more prevalent in the game as a whole actually- especially in the Pro12.

But there's 29 Samoan players who haven't used the medium of twitter to confirm their own immaturity and ignorance so I can't share your sentiments at all.
+1

Completely agree. One player and a few 'fans' do not represent all Samoans.

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Post by doctornickolas Sat 01 Oct 2011, 3:03 pm

Have you read the comments from Samoans on Nigel's facebook. There are hundreds of vile comments on there from Samoans, not just a 'few'.

Well that's my lasting image of them.

A few of them are even making comments that they hoped Nigel could have been one of the miners who lost their lives recently. That's how low these scum are so I don't regret my comments one bit.




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Post by Notch Sat 01 Oct 2011, 3:04 pm

I have read them, yes. But if we follow this to its natural conclusion... what conclusions will we draw about fans from other nations?

Dangerous path to walk eh? I'm incredibly disappointed by some of the puerile and offensive things written on Owens page. It's just not the ethos of the game


Last edited by Notch on Sat 01 Oct 2011, 3:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by HammerofThunor Sat 01 Oct 2011, 3:05 pm

They are scum for saying things like that. THEY are, not all Samoans. Prejudging all Samoans by the comments of some is not much better in my book.

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Post by Standulstermen Sat 01 Oct 2011, 3:06 pm

You cant brand all samoan rugby fans with those comments though. You should read the Guinness facebook page after an irish loss and wasnt there a thread calling for the welsh teams to pull out of the pro12 last week?


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Post by greybeard Sat 01 Oct 2011, 3:07 pm

Dr Nick, should I judge all Welsh rugby fans purely on the posts by Welsh wums on here?

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Post by TheGreyGhost Sat 01 Oct 2011, 3:09 pm

Frankly, the standard of refereeing of the game is appalling.

I have long said that the tournament will be decided by poor decisions.

We've seen some classic screw ups from the refs so far.

This kind of commentary is unfortunate, but the IRB provoke this sort of thing by continually doing nothing about sub-standard performances by officials.

You have so say Samoa could justifiably feel aggrieved at their treatment in this tournament, and there is history there, with them having been over-looked in the initial tournament.

When you see what these teams can do under a decent ref like Walsh this morning, it does may you scratch your head about some of the apparent bias in decisions against them.

For starters, the draw was grossly unfair, forcing them to play their games in a compressed schedule. Then we had the disparity in treatment of Tuilagi against England, and to top it off it seems a Samoan can't make a tackle without being penalised and that the prejudice is that they are prone to violence and lack discipline. As we saw with a red card issued for a retaliatory push to the face, when we've seen far far worse go unpunished from the European sides.

I'm sorry but there is an element of truth in the sentiment towards racism. I'm sure it is of the intrinsic rather than overt variety. But when you look at the evidence it weighs heavily against the IRB and their referees.

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Post by Guest Sat 01 Oct 2011, 3:10 pm

greybeard wrote:Dr Nick, should I judge all Welsh rugby fans purely on the posts by Welsh wums on here?
Shocked Now there's a scary thought. It would be like a Star Trek episode when the captain has to defend the human race based on its chequered history.


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Post by Rollmeister Sat 01 Oct 2011, 3:10 pm

I agree that we shouldn't tar all Samoans with that brush. I am disgusted by the people that have made the comments though. (That makes me sound like an old woman writing to a newspaper!)

The sooner the Samoan RFU say something about this the better, imho.
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Post by wales606 Sat 01 Oct 2011, 3:10 pm

Standulstermen wrote:I dont think we can taint Samoa in general with what a few idiots are saying on facebook but in reality Samoan Rugby should come out and distance itself from what has gone on to maintain any credibility. Their captain spoke poorly after the game (nothing like what has been said on facebook) and this unfortunately sets a bad example.

Sapolu should be given 6months off to think about his use of the internet and if i were in charge at Gloucester i would be thinking about his conduct as well.

In reality the outward placing of blame is hindering Samoan rugby far more than 4 day turnarounds or poor officiating. Until they look at themselves and their own deficiencies they will not reach the top table. A dark day for rugby and this episode must be detrimental to their arguments about unfavourable treatment by the scheduling.

I completely agree, the Samoan player was warned last week and the IRB need to give him a heavy santion as a warning, players should not react like that - it is an extremely bad example.

Samoa can only appear at WCs due to IRB funding, which comes from the other unions, so the IRB needs to act on actions that bring the game into disrepute.
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Post by Cymroglan Sat 01 Oct 2011, 3:14 pm

When people are criticising the Samoans they are not saying all Samoans are the same.
It's the Samoans who are posting abuse they are talking about and I would have that would have been obvious.... I wish people would stop nit picking.
The Samoans or any body else who used such language on Nigel's Facebook or Twitter account don't deserve defending.

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Post by Rollmeister Sat 01 Oct 2011, 3:16 pm

TGG, yes, their draw was unfair, but that was hardly racist. That was done on a purely financial model, and all the tier two nations suffered, not just Samoa. I think that it needs to be fixed, but racist, it is not.

Furthermore, Courtney Lawes got cited f or a dubious knock, two week ban. Other players have done worse and got nothing.

There have been some bad decisions, but to blame them on racism, intrinsic, deliberate or otherwise is disingenious and inflammatory, and stops us actually dealing with the root cause of the problem. I believe that the two assistant refs should have more power, that way it should hopefully cancel out some of the bigger problems on the pitch. Further, I think that something needs to be done to equalise the standard of reffing, as some refs seem to have "pet peeves".

Have there been a few problems? Yes. Is racism the root cause? No.
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Post by Standulstermen Sat 01 Oct 2011, 3:18 pm

To my mind the decisions of refs have been consisitently in favour of the tier 2 nations in this rwc. We had Joubert even commenting he was making a 'game decision' when admitting he should have binned a russian player.

I cant for the life of me think what really bad calls Owens made yesterday. The red card should have been yellow but he went on the TJ's recommendation. The Smit yellow card was the only glaring mistake i can recall.

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Post by TheGreyGhost Sat 01 Oct 2011, 3:28 pm

Rollmeister wrote:TGG, yes, their draw was unfair, but that was hardly racist. That was done on a purely financial model, and all the tier two nations suffered, not just Samoa. I think that it needs to be fixed, but racist, it is not.

Furthermore, Courtney Lawes got cited f or a dubious knock, two week ban. Other players have done worse and got nothing.

There have been some bad decisions, but to blame them on racism, intrinsic, deliberate or otherwise is disingenious and inflammatory, and stops us actually dealing with the root cause of the problem. I believe that the two assistant refs should have more power, that way it should hopefully cancel out some of the bigger problems on the pitch. Further, I think that something needs to be done to equalise the standard of reffing, as some refs seem to have "pet peeves".

Have there been a few problems? Yes. Is racism the root cause? No.

We can't discount it without an impartial review IMO. You just have to look at the constituents of the referees themselves to spot they are unusually predominantly white. Seems odd, given the make up of players in the game don't you think? Institutions comprising large number of one demographic tend to have a natural skew. I'm not saying these guys are doing anything wrong in themselves, but where there is natural understandable cultural bias, it needs to be addressed.

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Post by iso Sat 01 Oct 2011, 3:32 pm

Just had a good read of facebook, wow there is a very very high percentage of bitterness, reactive attack, homophobia & racism coming from the Samoan fans. I truly hope that this is not the vocal majority as the game does not need this medieval influence from a possible top tier nation.

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Post by Bullsbok Sat 01 Oct 2011, 3:41 pm

Samoa should be grateful that Owens let them get away with a ridiculous amount of rough play off the ball.The whole team seemed intent on hurting Boks all day and they have the audacity to complain that Owens didnt let them get away with more.

Funny just recently i was reading an article about the SAmoan union wanting more funding from the IRB so they can develop their rugby and compete with the big boys yet they allow they star center to brand the same IRB as a biased racist organisation much like the Nazi's?
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Post by Rollmeister Sat 01 Oct 2011, 3:44 pm

TheGreyGhost wrote:
Rollmeister wrote:TGG, yes, their draw was unfair, but that was hardly racist. That was done on a purely financial model, and all the tier two nations suffered, not just Samoa. I think that it needs to be fixed, but racist, it is not.

Furthermore, Courtney Lawes got cited f or a dubious knock, two week ban. Other players have done worse and got nothing.

There have been some bad decisions, but to blame them on racism, intrinsic, deliberate or otherwise is disingenious and inflammatory, and stops us actually dealing with the root cause of the problem. I believe that the two assistant refs should have more power, that way it should hopefully cancel out some of the bigger problems on the pitch. Further, I think that something needs to be done to equalise the standard of reffing, as some refs seem to have "pet peeves".

Have there been a few problems? Yes. Is racism the root cause? No.

We can't discount it without an impartial review IMO. You just have to look at the constituents of the referees themselves to spot they are unusually predominantly white. Seems odd, given the make up of players in the game don't you think? Institutions comprising large number of one demographic tend to have a natural skew. I'm not saying these guys are doing anything wrong in themselves, but where there is natural understandable cultural bias, it needs to be addressed.

OK, let's not discount it, but let's not claim it either then. I agree that it is something that could be worth investigating properly. Also, there should be a more diverse group of referees. I agree with this too. But if you consider the group that are officiating at this RWC, are they more or less representative of the Tier 1 nations? I would hazard a guess yes. The problem, then, seems to be that refs from Tier 2 countries don't get exposure to high level games and so don't have the experience to ref the RWC. This is something the IRB should be able to fix.
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Post by Cymroglan Sat 01 Oct 2011, 3:57 pm

Don't look for things that are not there the Samoans are upset because they lost and the abuse would still have come if the ref had been Fijian or Tongan.
There is no reason for abuse like that and anybody that is making excuses for it is no better than them.

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