Tom Croft...?

Many debates about Englands pack, back rows etc.

Whats the opinion on Mr Croft.

Nailed on starter probably Englands main lineout winner. Hugely athletic, and pace of a winger.

However, he is seen as a little lightweight, that maybe he doesnt do the dog, that a typical 6 should..similar to Kaino, Ferris etc.
Is that a fair observation...or unfair.

My question then. Does this offset the balance of the back row....and subsequently the whole pack / scrum.

Whats your views on him.

I think he's a lot better at that than given credit for. Maybe not as big a carrier

Very good at what he does best, not quite so good as some others at the 'traditional' blindside stuff, but by no means poor. I think you could look at playing him with a rampaging, close-quarters 8, and a pilferer, link-man 7, but not sure England have those players?

He's a very good 6, very athletic, smart and commited.

I do wonder a little though what it would be like for the balance of the backrow to have a traditional heavy weight at 6 and then play croft at 7.

At the moment our backrow seems to be confused and Haskell does a lot of the 6's primary role with boshing up the ball and cutting down the opposition. Croft on the other hand does a lot on the floor due to his pace and links well, he also is heavily involved in the lineouts.

Maybe a possability for the future is
6. Johnson, Robshaw
7. Croft
8. Hask, Guest

At the moment we have to play Croft, but is he in the wrong position?

I think he's a lot better at that than given credit for. Maybe not as big a carrier

This is what I think. To accuse Croft of "not doing the dirty work of a no 6" and being a showpony is unfair – that's often exactly the area in which he excels. But there's no question his carrying isn't up there with the O'Briens and Ferrises of this world, although he does seem to be improving in that area.

yappysnap wrote:He's a very good 6, very athletic, smart and commited.

I do wonder a little though what it would be like for the balance of the backrow to have a traditional heavy weight at 6 and then play croft at 7.

At the moment our backrow seems to be confused and Haskell does a lot of the 6's primary role with boshing up the ball and cutting down the opposition. Croft on the other hand does a lot on the floor due to his pace and links well, he also is heavily involved in the lineouts.

Maybe a possability for the future is
6. Johnson, Robshaw
7. Croft
8. Hask, Guest

At the moment we have to play Croft, but is he in the wrong position?

Johnson is a few years older than croft, haskell, wood and robshaw, so not sure he's so much 'one for the future'. good player though. I'm also not sure Guest would be powerful enough for international rugby, but as part of the right back row it could work. I really think Robshaw would be very good for england, but I know a lot of people aren't sure he's quick enough. Play him with guys like Croft and Haskell and it wouldn't be a problem though, and he makes ground through the tackle better than any back rower we've got out there now.

What difference does it make if he plays Openside or Blindside? All that matters is what side of the scrum they're on. As far as I can tell that's the only time it matters (and you can change who you put there for attack and defence, etc). Balance across the backrow. The only individual skill that matters to me is the control at the base of the scrum.

I didn't realise Johnson was older! I thought he was I his early 20's...

That backrow to me has it all
Power and tackling at 6
Speed and brains at 7
Power and paice at 8

Only question is a top notch 8

HammerofThunor wrote:What difference does it make if he plays Openside or Blindside? All that matters is what side of the scrum they're on. As far as I can tell that's the only time it matters (and you can change who you put there for attack and defence, etc). Balance across the backrow. The only individual skill that matters to me is the control at the base of the scrum.

Well I suppose that in defence you want your openside to be good enough to get to the first breakdown and slow the ball down on first phase, and in attack you need your number 8 to be a big ball carrier who can pick the ball up and make ground if needs be. Maybe you could choose:

6. Robshaw
7. Croft
8. Haskell

...in attack, and then switch Haskell to 7 in defence.

True it doesn't matter too much, but i think it's more the point of how he's being told to play, i'd like to see him doing Moody's job of linking and messing around on the floor while some one like Haskell puts in tackles and carries.

TBH this is very similar to how they are playing at the moment, but the only problem is we have Croft + Moody/Wood on the flanks when really it'd help to have Croft + one big 6.

yappysnap wrote:I didn't realise Johnson was older! I thought he was I his early 20's...

That backrow to me has it all
Power and tackling at 6
Speed and brains at 7
Power and paice at 8

Only question is a top notch 8

Bit of a late developer is TJ, 29 tarts old