Is Gatland just another Hansen

For the past 3 years Wales have been abject, a side selected with a randomness that left many, myself included, with the opinion that in fact Gatland was a very limited coach, who didn't really know what he was doing. Suddenly all that is forgotten and he is once again some sort of coaching demi-god.

Is the truth really that he just got lucky. Would he ever have selected Priestland if it were not for injuries. Would he have taken Gavin and played him had he not got injured. Would 1/2p really got as much game time if Hook had not picked up an injury. Did he just stumble upon Charteris (my player of the tournament) as his number 1 lock etc etc. Is he just another Hansen who stumbled upon his best team while simultaneously sending them out to a anticipated ritual slaughter by the ABs on 03. Hansen then had the bare faced audacity to take all the credit, when in fact credit was the last thing he should have got.

This suspicion has been brought once more to the front of my mind by the implausible selection of Hook at 10 for the playoff. This is an important game as success or failure will significantly impact our starting position as we battle for a higher seeding for 2015. Win 3rd lose 8th (I think). This is not a throw away game with double points too win or lose. Picking Hook is a throw away selection IMO.

He's got another 4 years so see how he goes. He's got a really good, young core to work with. Need to start consistently beating SH sides at home

Two other points though that maybe vindicate him:

he has stuck by Bennett when others, including me thought he was mad but Bennett has had a very good tournament.

he didn't stumble across Charteris, he has ine general stuck by him when like Bennett most questioned him.

He's had some luck but we should give credit where credit is due. He's recognised strong perfromances from "stand-ins" and made them first choice rather than revert back to his original plans. Also, he did prepare an extremely fit team with the help of his Polish cryotherapy jaunt. For me his greatest achievement is finding a world class open side and getting Phillips and Roberts firing like the top players they can be but all too often are not.

All the coaches said that it was the time they were allowed to spend with the players to get them correctly conditioned that has made the difference.

It is now very obvious that the regions are not setting fitness levels high enough, they need to do more.

From the outset Gatland has been highly critical publicly of the amount of injuries and the lack of fitness of the players available to him. The regions did little to appease him.

Valid point, it has made a huge difference and the players now know how hard they will have to work to maintain that high level.

Lets hope Gatland can make a fitness directive with the WRU that all players at all levels have to adhere too. It would improve the quality of our rugby no end.



With regards to your aimless point about the success being based naively on luck? NO you do not get to a Semi Final of a world cup on luck.

mm,

France have got to a final

maestegmafia

To suggest that luck plays no part in success and failure is a mantra perpetrated by the self help industry. Do you by any chance have a collection of Tony Robbins DVDs? I can think of no situation in which all variables are under your control. You can act to mitigate risk, but at the end of the day influencing the probability of an outcome is the best you can hope for. No amount of hard work planning and preparation can cover all eventualities. Quite simply you need good fortune. Sorry if that makes you feel out of control. The best I can do is wish you good luck.

So was Gatland Lucky? Absolutely. Was he also unlucky? No. He just ran out of good luck

Simply put, no he's not. Under Hansen we were capable of sinking to any level of mediocrity ie not competing for titles and constantly playing like Wooden Spoon contenders. Gatland has developed a higher level of consistency at the worst of times than Hansen could and has helped us achieve incomparable success at the best of times.

The realistic level of expectation with Hansen at the helm was 4th/3rd at best in the 6N and a QF in the World Cup. Since Gatland came in we've risen to consistent 6N challengers, competitive against any side on our day and couldn't have come closer to a RWC final. In fact we should be in the final now and the fact that we're not can't be put all down to Gatland.

So no, Gatland is not just another Hansen.

Just my view wrote:maestegmafia

To suggest that luck plays no part in success and failure is a mantra perpetrated by the self help industry. Do you by any chance have a collection of Tony Robbins DVDs? I can think of no situation in which all variables are under your control. You can act to mitigate risk, but at the end of the day influencing the probability of an outcome is the best you can hope for. No amount of hard work planning and preparation can cover all eventualities. Quite simply you need good fortune. Sorry if that makes you feel out of control. The best I can do is wish you good luck.

So was Gatland Lucky? Absolutely. Was he also unlucky? No. He just ran out of good luck

Chance and opportunity I guess are forms of luck and that certainly applies to Wales current successes.

But, the biggest changes to this Welsh team have been through hard work, on fitness, set piece, attack, defence, back play, through selection of the current choice back row, the appointment of Warburton as captain and established players finding their form, something i believe is resultant of good training, good coaching and being together for an extended period prior to this RWC.

I know a reasonable amount about professional sport, i worked in the computer and media side of professional sport most of my later working life. Let me tell you that in business and in sport, good luck comes to those who are talented and who put in the best ground work, the best prepared.

I understand your point, but I surmise that we make our own luck.

Carwwyn James used to say at Llanelli, "we can't decided which way the ball will bounce, but we can make damn sure we have three of our best, fittest, cleverest, most prepared lads contesting for it when it does...!"


That is what has made the difference in my opinion.

I would say a bit of both (luck and good selection really). Priestland was def an accidental gem who prob would have had little look in however on the other hand I believe Gatland has been trying to blood the likes of Toby since the NZ tour last year but couldn't due to injury etc

He seems to have finally plonked Andy Powell on the bench as an impact sub so I guess he has indeed been less reckless with his "fave" selections which often baffled us.

I think the Jamie Hook factor is working against Wales though, I think far too much effort has been put into accommodating him in the team - from full back, center etc instead of using somebody who is a specialist in that position rather then using him as a utility sub where I think he really belongs. I am not a Hook fan or hater but believe he is a great utility player but not somebody who should take the place of a fit FB or center

Often wonder if Henson would have pushed out JD2 if he never got injured, Wales really did bend over backwards for him despite no rugby for several years. Would welcome him back into the team he if earned it via his club rugby but this was sadly not the case and I think should never have happened. Maybe it won't happen again after our fine showing - we certainly don't need him unless he starts performing magic for a club

There are certainly similarities between injury & reduced options shaping the squad and those which saw Johnson get credit for England's false dawn last year, but Wales' consistency over the last couple of months would suggest it's not the same. The proof will be in if they can push on from here. Winning the 6N is an essential stepping stone in that progression.

gatland was worse than muck on shoe 3 months ago by you welsh. so not sure how he is good especially when you are still losing such a high percentage of games.

i am certainly not convinced and neither should yoou be so sensational. lol you weslhies do make me laugh - you blame us english for bigging up then knocking down- you lot make us seem very unemotional

Hansen? - we were well shot of him. We got rid of that useless Graham Henry too. Wonder what happened to him afterwards...

mystiroakey wrote:gatland was worse than muck on shoe 3 months ago by you welsh. so not sure how he is good especially when you are still losing such a high percentage of games.

i am certainly not convinced and neither should yoou be so sensational. lol you weslhies do make me laugh - you blame us english for bigging up then knocking down- you lot make us seem very unemotional

I'd have to agree we have a large number of knee-jerk fickles in Wales. I for one have never called for Gatland's head or made any pretence of placing 100% of the blame on him as many have. I may have questioned some of his decisions but name me a coach who never gets questioned...
In the long term every coach will go through some rough patches. If Gatland had quit immediately after the GS in 08 we'd be ranting about how he was the best thing since sliced bread but as it is we've stuck with him, had the chance to see he's not Midas and some can't stand him for it. That doesn't make him a useless coach, the position we occupy now in comparison to after the last WC speaks for itself. I say drop the axe-wielding football fan attitude and get behind the side including Gatland, whose results you'll find have held out just fine in reality!!

However mysti, if you're going to make generalisations and tar every Welsh person with the same brush your head would be a better place to do it and not out in the open

mystiroakey wrote:gatland was worse than muck on shoe 3 months ago by you welsh. so not sure how he is good especially when you are still losing such a high percentage of games.

i am certainly not convinced and neither should yoou be so sensational. lol you weslhies do make me laugh - you blame us english for bigging up then knocking down- you lot make us seem very unemotional

stereotypical nonsense

Gatts wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:gatland was worse than muck on shoe 3 months ago by you welsh. so not sure how he is good especially when you are still losing such a high percentage of games.

i am certainly not convinced and neither should yoou be so sensational. lol you weslhies do make me laugh - you blame us english for bigging up then knocking down- you lot make us seem very unemotional

stereotypical nonsense

Mystiroakey,

Thats not true, he had a few detractors but many of us were very happy with what he was doing... Gatts is right...!

I questioned some of his selections but not what he was trying to achieve.

A few things that I slated him over was the continued use of Bennett and Charteris (even as Dragons fan) but fair play they have repaid his faith by the bucket load.

Two areas that I did always criticise him in was the continued use of Hook at XV whenever Byrne was out and likewise the use of James when Jones was out.

We had plaenty of options to blood a young T/Head before Mitchell got his chance (but reverted to type for Friday) and I still wonder if Hook ahdn't been injured would Halfpenny fianlly been given the XV shirt and proved he should have had it ages ago.

Ruddock rated Charteris and that was good enough for me.Luke has been a slow burner but has always played to his utmost and you can ask no more of any player.
He must be vying with Toby for our player of the tournament.

Taffineastbourne wrote:Ruddock rated Charteris and that was good enough for me.Luke has been a slow burner but has always played to his utmost and you can ask no more of any player.
He must be vying with Toby for our player of the tournament.

philipps for me...tries v Ire and france, solid all tour back to 2009 lion form

Taff,

Like most down at Dave would agree he has been huge for us but never IMO until recently and confirming it in the WC he just didn't do it in Welsh shirt.

His work rate has been huge

bedfordwelsh wrote:Taff,

Like most down at Dave would agree he has been huge for us but never IMO until recently and confirming it in the WC he just didn't do it in Welsh shirt.

His work rate has been huge

Bedford,on another site I have been at war with a Blues fan who rates Bradly higher.I recognised that Brad's first few games were impressive but he has faded whilst Luke has "grown".His performances for the Dragons and now Wales must now be recognised by non-Dragons.I find our parochialism pretty frustrating and this has been the major factor in holding Welsh rugby back.

Taff,

Fully agree, because Davies 'burst' onto the scene some see him has a better higher profile etc.

But Lukes consistency for us was his strong point and its now being recognised but more importantly recognised outside of Wales.

There were 5 players from Dave in the squad had 3 of them have had a huge impact on the performance of the Welsh squad whilst Burns is one for the future.

Charteris has had plenty of injury issues to contend with, that has slowed his progress.


With other players that lacked form previously they have also had injury issues. Gatland actually needs applauding for making sure so many of our top players were fit and ready to play for this world cup.

He has been very prominent in the encouragement of players getting surgery so that they are ready to perform for Wales.

Gethin Jenkins not playing in the Six Nations is a prime example, he did one WRU training session and then was told to get his foot fixed.

Bedford,I take comfort that Wales' performances have improved once some Dragons have got in the mix.I was frustrated with the Ospreys bias that led to Bighead getting ahead of Jason.Hopefully his time will come.In fairness Tovey has too many bad days as well,but when he is good he is damn good.

Tovey has had his fair share of injuries to and one area he certainly needs to work on is his kicking game, though towards the end of last season his percentages did increase.

With S Jones unlikley to play much more at the top level and Hook plying his trade in France then IMO he has the perfect chance now to put some serious pressure of the others out there