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The All Black team for the Rugby World Cup Final.

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eirebilly
Gatts
aucklandlaurie
majesticimperialman
TycroesOsprey
chewed_mintie
ME-109
kiakahaaotearoa
screamingaddabs
rodders
fushnchups
emack2
Taylorman
disneychilly
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Post by disneychilly Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:49 pm

All Blacks: Israel Dagg, Cory Jane, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Richard Kahui, Aaron Cruden, Piri Weepu, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (capt), Jerome Kaino, Sam Whitelock, Brad Thorn, Owen Franks, Keven Mealamu, Tony Woodcock. Reserves: Andrew Hore, Ben Franks, Ali Williams, Adam Thomson, Andy Ellis, Stephen Donald, Sonny Bill Williams

Thomson in. Suppose his more physical presence is a bonus on the bench but to be honest I hope we don't see him and Donald.

The great performance last week is rewarded. Cruden has the reins. Come on boys, one more big push. Let's do it.

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Post by Taylorman Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:20 pm

I actually hope we'll see Donald, because if we do it will mean the score will be well beyond even the damage he could possibly do.

Hopefully by the end of the match all subs are on so they at least get a taste of the final.

Fitting though that McCaw is there on the field leading by example at the final whistle...visions of Kirk 87, Fitzy 96 in SA...

...assuming it all goes to plan that is...

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Post by disneychilly Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:46 pm

Yup. This game has made me so nervous, and the anticipation reminds me of before that game in Pretoria come to think of it. I hope it's that situation-if we're up by 75 and it's the last scrum of the game then chuck the Don on and see what he can do.

But it's a hell of an effort to make and no chances to be taken. Hope there are no early injuries.

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Post by emack2 Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:11 pm

THAT is the strongest possible available side,Thomson is a real Lineout option so that is in his favour.
I disagree this Match will be so tight clering the bench to give players game time could be catastrophic.
Keep the A side on as long as possible,the full 80 if required.

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Post by fushnchups Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:24 pm

You can almost see it coming can't you? Stephen Donald to come on after 60 minutes following injuries to Weepu and Cruden to guide New Zealand to world cup glory with a late penalty goal, or conversion.

Did anyone else notice how often Dagg was standing at first five last week? Personally I hope we don't see any more of his misguided up and unders, and that someone spends a few hours running through drop goal technique with him if it's going to be repeated this week.

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Post by rodders Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:27 pm

fushnchups wrote:
Did anyone else notice how often Dagg was standing at first five last week?

Yup. I presume that this was a dliberate tactic to take a bit of pressure off the Cruden.

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Post by screamingaddabs Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:35 pm

Got to feel for Carter. Best 10 in the world in the best team in the world and he gets injured for their moment of glory.

They should still win though obviously and I'm sure Carter will go up with the team for the trophy.
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Post by fushnchups Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:37 pm

Pretty sure he can't. He's been substituted out of the team and you know what old bores the IRB have shown themselves to be.

I imagine if NZ win and DC steps into a designated squad area even in celebration, the IRB will disqualify the whole team and hand the trophy to France.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:43 pm

Well it was touch and go in the early and middle stages there with injuries. Read didn´t even play until Canada and after that match in training, a freak injury to Carter sees our chances written off by many. Kaino went down a couple of times in the match against Argentina and I was proverbialising myself.

But good to see Nonu back and Weepu over the flu. Hopefully neither side has to deal with injuries and we can have some good hard rugby. The farewell match for a couple of players so what better way to leave the ABs: on top of the world.

It´s not going to be easy. I don´t expect a whitewash but I am confident the boys can pull through. They just need to keep on attacking and take the game by the horns and do what they want with the ball which is hopefully ball in hand and attacking the French line. That will require focus and aggression at the breakdown above all. I´m so nervous but you only get nervous about the things that matter. kia kaha

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Post by fushnchups Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:01 pm

When I look at the 9/10 axis for France, I can't help but wonder whether Donald wouldn't make an ideal foil actually. He loves to snipe at that channel, and from what I've seen so far, it's a defensive weakness for France. Presumably Weepu will be handed the kicking tee anyway.

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Post by ME-109 Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:05 pm

fushnchups wrote:When I look at the 9/10 axis for France, I can't help but wonder whether Donald wouldn't make an ideal foil actually. He loves to snipe at that channel, and from what I've seen so far, it's a defensive weakness for France. Presumably Weepu will be handed the kicking tee anyway.

Parra had no problem dealing with Roberts when he came down that channel so not sure if it is a definite weakness or a perceived one.

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Post by fushnchups Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:07 pm

Was that before or after Wales lost one third of their back row for 60 minutes? I should hope he'll be under a little more pressure this week.

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Post by chewed_mintie Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:09 pm

Kia I echo your thoughts. No kiwi in their right mind is expecting this to be a roll over.

My Parent/Teacher night turned to “How do you think you’ll get on come Sunday, you’re son has been talking about it quite a lot” which sends me into a jittery, nervous wreck. Everytime I am asked by someone at work how I think it’s going to go, I tell them I can’t talk about it I’m too nervous. Then our Group FC who is a jappie will chime in with “SA would roll you guys over if we were in the final”. “If’s, but’s, coulda, should, woulda” being my response and in the same breath dousing any hopes of a promotion just to shut him up!

It’ll be worth it though if we can “knock the Bar Steward off”, envoking the spirit of Sir Ed. I’m sure he’ll be looking down from his craggy vantage point on that mountain in the sky…..

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:14 pm

That´s why we´re so nervous. We´ve been waiting for this opportunity for 24 years. Your head says the ABs should do it but your guts say don´t walk away from the bathroom. Keep it in sight!

If we can control the game like against Australia, not giving France a sniff, and putting points on the board regularly then that should be enough. If France can apply pressure by scoring (which is what they failed to do in the pool game) then that toilet is going to get messy.

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Post by ME-109 Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:15 pm

In fairness fush he wasnt troubled much in the first 20 of the game either. Just saying his tackling isnt weak.

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Post by fushnchups Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:36 pm

I guess we can finish this conversation on Sunday.

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Post by TycroesOsprey Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:54 pm

Taylorman wrote:I actually hope we'll see Donald, because if we do it will mean the score will be well beyond even the damage he could possibly do.

Hopefully by the end of the match all subs are on so they at least get a taste of the final.

Fitting though that McCaw is there on the field leading by example at the final whistle...visions of Kirk 87, Fitzy 96 in SA...

...assuming it all goes to plan that is...

That made me laugh for the first time since this morning notworthy

In hoping you win, life without Carter isnt so bad after all. NZ by 15 at least.

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Post by disneychilly Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:54 pm

TycroesOsprey that's actually a big thing. Yeah winning it would be an achievement in itself, but we've made it to the final without Carter. Hopefully another big game from the boys will convince the world NZ aren't a two-man team. Already they've gone a long way towards proving that to be false.

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Post by majesticimperialman Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:27 pm

I thought i read some where that Hosa Gear was in the Abs squad.
Is he injured or somerthing.

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Post by Taylorman Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:54 pm

emack2 wrote:THAT is the strongest possible available side,Thomson is a real Lineout option so that is in his favour.
I disagree this Match will be so tight clering the bench to give players game time could be catastrophic.
Keep the A side on as long as possible,the full 80 if required.

So if its 28-0 after 76 minutes you wouldnt clear the bench.
That was my point. I would only clear it when it couldnt be catastrophic. Thought that was obvious.
Anyway. I think the difference will be significant.

You have to at some point look at whats in front of you. ABs have France covered in every single area across the park and will leave nothing on the field.

All france have is the history of upsets. History also tells us that they get thrashed in finals. So which history is relevant here.

None i say. So looking at whats in front of us, ABs by at least 15 and anything up to 40 is not beyond this side.

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Post by ME-109 Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:19 pm

Lots of justified confidence (some would say arrogance) with regards to the final score
France might as well not turn up

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Post by aucklandlaurie Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:27 pm

Since France have been in town for a couple of weeks they may as well turn up since they're here.

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Post by Gatts Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:33 pm

Jeez you guys are confident, i really think you need to be careful!

Any other team you would say yep, NZ are out and out the class act and will win at a trot. But the french are irresistible in circumstances like this. they love to spoil your party and are a big game side.


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Post by aucklandlaurie Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:39 pm

I cant see anything wrong with a bit confidence and belief.

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Post by Gatts Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:42 pm

Confidence yes, belief yes but France seem to be being dismised out of hand and that is when they are at their most dangerous

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Post by aucklandlaurie Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:45 pm

There are plenty of Frenchies in this town,who are not only confident but they also believe their team can win,no one is criticising them.
I'm not sure what dismissed out of hand means.

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Post by Taylorman Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:07 am

Doesnt matter what i say gatts so its not me that needs to be careful. Thats actually exactly why i can say these sorts of things.

The abs are well versed on the french. In fact far more than you and i ever will be. They were there. In the thick of it in 2007.

Its speculation when someone else says a big win. when we say it is...?? hmmm.

Waiting a long time for this. We'll calm down soon after but for now we just want the very best for our team and that would be to hammer the french.

Simple really. If we lose we lose. Been there done that so we're used to that as well.




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Post by Gatts Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:10 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: Since France have been in town for a couple of weeks they may as well turn up since they're here.

that, i would suggest, is dismissing them out of hand

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Post by aucklandlaurie Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:19 am

Gatts
Well then who else should the ABs play tomorrow night?

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Post by Taylorman Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:21 am

As long as henry aint saying these things we can say anything we want.
I think if our team were yours so would you whether you admit it or not. Either way it doesnt matter.
I just dont see the french getting close. The only evidence seems to be intangibles. No ones said anything tangible. Scrum? backs? tactics?
Nothing. Just "oooh french can sometimes blah blah.."
well with respect what are you supposed to think. That hoodoos will get us?

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Post by Gatts Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:27 am

No one, France are there because they have won the games they needed to win. They are justified finalists. it would be easy for my heart to say Wales on merit, or SA/aus because i think boh these teams have the mental strength to take on a rampant NZ at Eden, but France are there because they have the capacity to raise their game, do enough, get the ugly W and succeed in knockout rugby.

I am not suggesting NZ are wrong to be so confident, far from it, i am counselling caution because you guys know above all other what they can do when they want to, and the state they are in they might just come out of their shells

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Post by Gatts Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:30 am

Taylorman wrote:As long as henry aint saying these things we can say anything we want.
I think if our team were yours so would you whether you admit it or not. Either way it doesnt matter.
I just dont see the french getting close. The only evidence seems to be intangibles. No ones said anything tangible. Scrum? backs? tactics?
Nothing. Just "oooh french can sometimes blah blah.."
well with respect what are you supposed to think. That hoodoos will get us?

Pure hubris taylorman, if not arrogance. you are welcome to it and yes if you look at your history it is the flaming hoodoos that got you.

Good luck.

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Post by aucklandlaurie Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:32 am

gatts.
I was replying to the guy DOD who suggested that France might as well not turn up.

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Post by TycroesOsprey Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:33 am

The only thing that will keep France in this game is McCaw getting red carded for a tip tackle in the 18th minute. However the ref wont get out of the stadium alive if that happens. Honestly NZ are so much better than France it is going to be at least 15 I think.

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Post by Gatts Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:33 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: gatts.
I was replying to the guy DOD who suggested that France might as well not turn up.


using my moniker...

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Post by aucklandlaurie Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:35 am

So it was you that was dismissing them out of hand...

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Post by ME-109 Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:42 am

Well if you want tangibles...the French scrum, lineout plus 15 pro decent rugby players (most who have beaten the abs) playing for their lives . The front row is 2/3 different from the pool game. The lineout is good. Traille is not fb (that saves France about 2 try's).
The head says nz by 20. But there are a lot of v good players on that French team. Its not a question of which French team turns up because the facts show these guys are very consistent over the last 10 years specifically .

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Post by Gatts Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:49 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: So it was you that was dismissing them out of hand...

i surrender

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Post by TycroesOsprey Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:57 am

The French lineout is good but the NZ backrow know exactly how to stop that otherwise the french havent offered a lot in moves at the back of the line relying on secure ball.

The French scrum is solid and its here thery will try to attack NZ. However if they spend the game being moved around the French pack will tire.

Their 9-10 channel is weak defensively. HOnestly what have this french team shown all tournament, they are all quality players but they look badly coached to be honest. God help us all when Saint Andre takes over because things will definitly change but Lievermonts France has been lucky.

I think its going to be a repeat of the group game but worse for France.

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Post by emack2 Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:58 am

The correct way for tha All Blacks to prepare for this match is as Henry says.
Treat them as THE best team in the World [France]and plan accordingly.
As has been pointed out already,what we think does`nt matter as long as the players don`t consider it a done deal.
The All Blacks and French packs are well matched,and both sides have good backs.
I fear it maybe down to goalkicking as is usual in these things,on that basis France may well nick it.

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Post by Gatts Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:00 am

Jesus, i warned against arrogance and didn't suggest capitulation.....you of all people,relentlessly back your side until the moment of destiny and then lift up your skirt and ooh la la!!

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Post by ME-109 Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:01 am

Look nz fans. I fully expect the abs to win. All logic points to minimum 20+ win. But the French have had no big win as yet (except for maybe england their bogey team). But look at the stats in that respect . This is the first time they beat England in the wc out of four attempts yet there record against the abs is 3 losses and 2 wins. They beat Wales because at the end of the day they expected to beat them. Which is why Henry would have preferred Wales because nz always beat them. At Kickoff it will be 15 v 15.
Tycroes..all i will say is look at how medard played against Wales. He kicked all the time completely against his natural gane. He will not do that in the final

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Post by ME-109 Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:06 am

Oops drunken posting

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Post by emack2 Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:12 am

I,respect any side that reachs a RWC final by whatever means,and suspect
France have only done just enough to get there.
France are France,wonderful one day rubbish the next for no good reason.France Goalkickers by there record in this RWC are among the best in the tournament.
YES,I expect a NZ win,but it is by no means a foregone conclusion and I still back an AB win.

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Post by eirebilly Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:10 am

I have said this alot but i honestly believe that i France start like they did against the AB's in the group stages but with this time scoring points. It could be very close.

There is massive pressure on the AB's and if France can hit them quickly then an element of doubt might creep into the AB's.

That said, i fully expect the AB's to win but its certainly not a given.

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Post by Taylorman Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:30 am

Yep. Its all been said. I think we all know what we're saying.
Mccaw ecchoed tonight just what the abs have learnt from 2003/7- just how hard it is to win one of these things reflecting how naive they were 2003/7.
Theyre of the opinion that france tomorrow, particularly at the start will be THE toughest opponents they will have faced in the last 4 years.
I agree. But because we'll front with that in mind the final score will be high.

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Post by eirebilly Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:45 am

The AB's certainly look as if they are approaching the match in the correct way Taylorman. It should be a very good match.
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Post by dubh_linn Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:54 am

Presuming nz win as expected tomorrow does anyone have any plausible theories why nz cannot win rwc outside of their own country?
especially as england (in oz), south africa (in france), australia (in england) have won it outside their countries......

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Post by mystiroakey Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:04 pm

dubh_linn wrote:Presuming nz win as expected tomorrow does anyone have any plausible theories why nz cannot win rwc outside of their own country?
especially as england (in oz), south africa (in france), australia (in england) have won it outside their countries......

no extrodonary reason - the world cups dont happen often enough- some people say they choked at the time.

the other reason is also quite simple- its the fact the above nations were the best teams at the time and proved it by winning the wc

mystiroakey

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:08 pm

There hasn´t been an unworthy World Cup winner. There have only been 7 of them as well.

Until last weekend no team had lost two pool games and NZ had never beaten Australia in a World Cup match. But let´s see how things stand after 20 or 50 World Cups. The law of averages usually tend to iron things out after a while.

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