Munster Announce European Cup Squad 2011/2012

Munster have named John Hayes in their Heineken Cup squad for the 2011/12 season.
Because of front row injuries to Darragh Hurley and Peter Borlase, Hayes has been included for the pool stages of the competition.

Included for their first ever Heineken Cup are Munster Academy graduates wing Simon Zebo, scrum-half Conor Murray and hooker Sean Henry, along with current academy wing-forward Dave O'Callaghan.

The squad also includes new recruits Ian Keatley, BJ Botha, Will Chambers and development squad prop John Ryan.

Notable absentees are Jerry Flannery, David Wallace and Felix Jones, all front-line players ruled out through injury sustained while preparing for or participating in the Rugby World Cup.

Neither Wallace nor Jones would be available to take any part in the pool stages, while Flannery may be added at a later date.

Munster Heineken Cup Squad:

Props: Marcus Horan, Wian du Preez, John Ryan, Stephen Archer, BJ Botha, John Hayes

Hookers: Denis Fogarty, Damien Varley, Michael Sherry, Sean Henry

Second Rows: Paul O'Connell, Donncha O'Callaghan, Michael O'Driscoll, Ian Nagle, Donnacha Ryan

Backrows: Niall Ronan, Billy Holland, Tommy O'Donnell, Peter O'Mahony, Dave O'Callaghan, Denis Leamy, James Coughlan

Scrumhalves: Tomas O'Leary, Conor Murray, Duncan Williams, Peter Stringer

Flyhalves: Ronan O'Gara, Ian Keatley

Centres: Danny Barnes, Will Chambers, Tom Gleeson, Lifeimi Mafi

Back Threes: Scott Deasy, Doug Howlett, Denis Hurley, Johne Murphy, Simon Zebo, Keith Earls

Can this squad get past Northampton, Scarlets and Castres?

Potential weaknesses at prop, backrow and centre maybe, Staggy? Saints and Scarlets have struggled with absentees during RWC, while Castres have been going great guns in the T14 and currently lie top. I know better than to write off Munster, but reckon they might struggle to get out of this pool

Actually now that I see it on paper I would question the logic in bringing Sean Henry - why the need for a 4th hooker especially such an inexperienced one?

It's going to be tough for Munster, they are 3 very good teams they are up against.

I cannot see Flannery coming back, I think his body is just saying 'no' every time he tries. Shame, as he is a good player, but such is the attritional nature of the game now, I think it is going to be a struggle for him.

Definite weakness at prop, backrow and centre I would say.

I've said it on other threads but I really can't tell what our best XV is?

If pushed I would only be confident in picking about half the team.

• Chambers or Barnes
  
• Chambers or Mafi
  
• Murphy or Hurley
  
• O'Leary or Murray
  
• O'Gara or Keatley
  
• Horan or du Preez
  
• Varley or Sherry
  
• Ryan or Leamy
  
• O'Mahony or Ronan
  
• O'Mahony or Leamy
  
• O'Mahony or Coughlan
  
• Coughlan or Leamy
  

So many different combinations to choose from. You don't do well in cup tournaments without knowing your best XV. Thats what worries me most.

The Saints pack should be back to full strength and if gels as it did last year then I think your front row will be given a torrid time. The backrow battle for that game will be worth a watch as Saints have some powerful and disruptive options and in young Ben Nutley a complete nutter (Moody style).

Scarlets will give your backs a serious test and the forwards will be hard pressed to keep up if they play their free flowing brand of rugby. Castres are a decent team but shouldn't be much more than a speed bump. If Munster finish top they can at least be sure the team is working well as the backs will have bring width and tactical nous against Saints whilst the forwards will need to front up to contain the Scarlets.

Du Preez, Varley, Botha
O'Callaghan, O'Connell
Ryan, Coughlan, Ronan
O'Leary, O'Gara
Mafi, Barnes
Earls, Hurley, Howlett

Horan, Sherry, Botha
O'Callaghan, O'Connell
Leamy, Coughlan, O'Mahony
Murray, Keatley
Chambers, Barnes
Earls, Murphy, Howlett

They are very different sides and I could see us pick either.

Sad to see Jones didn't make it, when is he due back?

Don't think I've seen such a weak selection of backrows from Munster, I think the loss of Wallace is huge for you guys

Agree entirely Pete. Seems a definite for me to have Ryan at 6.

I have to be honest and say that doesn't look like a HEC winning squad.

As has been eluded to the front row, back row and midfield doesn't look like they'll strike fear into the opposition.

A lot of young guys and old guys but unfortunately not too much in between. Wallace, Jones and Flannery are big losses and it's hard to see Flannery coming back.

That said Munster have always performed well above the sum of their parts and I'm sure whatever side they put out won't lie down no matter who they are up against.

Rodders IMO if Munster don't get a home quarter + semi they haven't a prayer. However getting out of a tough group is the first part.

Of all the teams in the group I think Northampton pose the least threat. Castres and Scarlets are very good sides who I rate higher.

I'm really saddened by how much weaker that Munster squad is than past incarnations. Positions where there used to be a deep well of quality like hooker and backrow look very weak.

Underestimate Northampton at your peril. What they do have is a better front row and a better backrow. Fairly unimpressive beyond their pack but if they get dominance up front it's always going to be tough.

Really Stag? Don't you feel that Northamptons experience will stand them in good stead? I think they are a serious threat to Munster.

It would be a huge blow for Munster not to qualify for the 2nd year running. Once is a blip but they don't want to end up in the european wilderness like Ulster were. A good run in Europe will make the top sides fear Munster again and get the young guys valuable experience.

Like you say if Munster get a home QF then they will be very hard to beat.

Interesting that Earls is down as a back 3 player. It looks like Mafi and Barnes is the 1st choice pairing?

Wow you think your pack will live with the Northampton 8? That is a big call, you could do it at home I'm sure not so sure away though.

I think reverting to a kick corners and win lineout ball kinda game is your best option.

Munster A is giving Connacht A a good going over. (16-3 at half time). Ummm is commenting on the live updates here http://www.knockon.ie/

Maguire in the Connacht front row is having a difficult day out apparently

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
I think reverting to a kick corners and win lineout ball kinda game is your best option.

No I don't think so. I think playing a percentage and territory game works best if you have a dominant pack.

Hopefully Keatley will add a bit more creativity at 10 and Munster will be able to mix their game up a bit better than last year when they went wide too often IMO.

The pack will have to front up but you have to play to your strengths and for Munster that is out wide I think and not in pack.

The lack of ball carriers would worry me though. Wallace was the go to guy and BJ won't carry as effectively as Buckley. Leamy is not great anymore and Ryan is not a ball carrier.

That really just leaves POC and Mafi to try and get Munster on the front foot.

roddersm wrote:Really Stag? Don't you feel that Northamptons experience will stand them in good stead? I think they are a serious threat to Munster.

It would be a huge blow for Munster not to qualify for the 2nd year running. Once is a blip but they don't want to end up in the european wilderness like Ulster were. A good run in Europe will make the top sides fear Munster again and get the young guys valuable experience.

Like you say if Munster get a home QF then they will be very hard to beat.

Interesting that Earls is down as a back 3 player. It looks like Mafi and Barnes is the 1st choice pairing?

Red Stag has put him there, Munster have not designated positions yet.

Wally is a big miss. Other than that (provided BJ can stay fit), I'd be happy enough, though I believe Sherry is out for 6 weeks.
From all accounts Tomas O'Leary is playing well for Munster A which is good news.

Ok sorry didn't realise. Will Mafi and Barnes be the likely 1st choice centers?

Earls at FB with Zebo/ Hurley and Howlett on the wings maybe?

Rodders, yea I just broke it up to be easier.

Yea I do think Northampton are good but not all cracked up to be. I am more worried about Castres (who I see as dangerously underrated - can't believe someone called them a 'speed bump') and Scarlets.

Wallace is a massive loss. Comfortably the biggest loss we have. Actually if we did make the knockouts bringing in Wallace and Jones would be a massive boost.

Jones and Wallace would be HUGE boosts.

I still think ball retention will be Munsters best weapon i don't think they have they backrow to go wide too much. Not as their plan A anyways

Agree, am very excited about seeing if Keatly can bring more creativity to munster midfield.

Think the lack of ballcarriers is a very serious issue

can't believe someone called them a 'speed bump'

Speed bumps can give you more than a nasty jolt if you're not prepared for them.

Yea I do think Northampton are good but not all cracked up to be

Dunno they were pretty brutal on their way to the final in last years competition and really kicked Leinster around the park in the first half of that game. Shame for them that in the second half Leinster wised up and tore them a new 'un. Not a team to be taken lightly in the tight affairs.

I agree with sammy boy. If the lads aren't ready for it physically NH will be in their element, they are a mean mean team.

Didn't Leinster wise up to NH's illegal scrummaging at half time? BJ & Horan would be able to cope with their tricks.

I think its a mistake that NH have moved from Franklin Gardens - do they realise how many Irish are now living in the area (recession will help here) - it will be like Thomond Park!

roddersm wrote:Ok sorry didn't realise. Will Mafi and Barnes be the likely 1st choice centers?

Earls at FB with Zebo/ Hurley and Howlett on the wings maybe?

Missed this post - this is how Munster have listed the squad. They have Earls in among the centres, rather than the back 3.

Munster Heineken Cup Squad: Scott Deasy, Doug Howlett, Denis Hurley, Johne Murphy, Simon Zebo, Danny Barnes, Will Chambers, Tom Gleeson, Keith Earls, Lifeimi Mafi, Ronan O'Gara, Ian Keatley, Tomas O'Leary, Conor Murray, Duncan Williams, Peter Stringer, Denis Fogarty, Damien Varley, Michael Sherry, Sean Henry, Marcus Horan, John Hayes, Stephen Archer, Wian du Preez, BJ Botha, John Ryan, Paul O'Connell, Donncha O'Callaghan, Michael O'Driscoll, Ian Nagle, Donnacha Ryan, Niall Ronan, Billy Holland, Tommy O'Donnell, Peter O'Mahony, Dave O'Callaghan, Denis Leamy, James Coughlan.

I think it will be Johne Murphy at FB with Earls & Douglie on the wings - then probably Barnes & Mafi in the centre.

Keatly can play Fullback as well, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him played there a few times to get him up to speed as soon as possible in the Heineken Cup.

Very interesting Sin E.

So we're as likely to see Chambers and Earls as Mafi and Barnes

red_stag wrote:Very interesting Sin E.

So we're as likely to see Chambers and Earls as Mafi and Barnes

I think a lot could depend on Chambers and how/if he fits in. According to the Live Updates the one time he got the ball in an attacking position he did well (drawing the tackler onto him with a great offload).

Also mentioned that Ian Nagle had an outstanding game, which is very good news to hear.

I don't think Munster are as weak as people think. They have to play the right team though, and I think there are certain players who must start. Peter O'Mahoney is one of them, he is a player who will get the team motivated and on the front foot with his aggression and ball carrying prowess. He also tackles and rucks like a beast. Watch out for this man.

Ryan is massive in my view with wally gone, he impressed me when he came on in the rwc

D24tress wrote:Ryan is massive in my view with wally gone, he impressed me when he came on in the rwc

But hopefully from an Irish pov he will be in the second row.
Wally is a huge blow, he is an absolute monster and guarantees go forward ball from slow ball. Its a huge blow for Munster, if he was fit they could be looking at a backrow of leamy, wally, pom which would be strong enough. Wally not being there brings down the quality a lot. I'm really hopeful of POM's future, this is a big chance which I hope he gets and takes.


On the front row battle. Last year when Ulster played Northhampton, the scrums where fairly even with Ulster maybe having a slight edge with Botha playing half fit. I'd say a wdp sherry botha front row would be capable of coping with them this year.

From an Irish pov it will be incredibly disappointing to see two NIQ props starting but I think that is likely thankfully the rest of the pack will be Irish.

How do you guys think Munster will fare this season in the Heino.It looks a tough group and it wouldn't surprise me if 4 wins plus a few bonus points is enough to win it.

Ive decided what I want our team to be

Du Preez, Sherry, Botha
O'Callaghan, O'Connell
Ryan, Coughlan, O'Mahony
Murray, O'Gara
Chambers, Barnes
Earls, Murphy, Howlett

Varley, Horan, Archer, Nagle, Ronan, O'Leary, Keatley, Mafi

red_stag wrote:Ive decided what I want our team to be

Du Preez, Sherry, Botha
O'Callaghan, O'Connell
Ryan, Coughlan, O'Mahony
Murray, O'Gara
Chambers, Barnes
Earls, Murphy, Howlett

Varley, Horan, Archer, Nagle, Ronan, O'Leary, Keatley, Mafi

Sherry is out for 6 weeks apparently. Leamy will be in the 22 and he is a lot better than ronan

Stag I think that backrow is a bit imbalanced.. I would pick Ryan over O'Callaghan at 4 or else on the bench, 6. Leamy, 7. Ronan (until Wallace returns) with POM playing 8. Coughlan on the bench.

I actually forgot about Leamy. Back to the
drawing board

red_stag wrote:Ive decided what I want our team to be

Du Preez, Sherry, Botha
O'Callaghan, O'Connell
Ryan, Coughlan, O'Mahony
Murray, O'Gara
Chambers, Barnes
Earls, Murphy, Howlett

Varley, Horan, Archer, Nagle, Ronan, O'Leary, Keatley, Mafi

+1 Stag.

That's the team i would want to see as well. The only possible change i would make would be mafi mainly because i haven't seen chambers yet.

Oh ya i would just put leamy on the bench ahead of ronan.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Stag I think that backrow is a bit imbalanced.. I would pick Ryan over O'Callaghan at 4 or else on the bench, 6. Leamy, 7. Ronan (until Wallace returns) with POM playing 8. Coughlan on the bench.

Ronan is a nothing player, pom at 7.

Nothing player is a bit harsh I would say.. and POM would just be wasted at 7, seriously no point playing him at 7. Leamy at 7 would be preferable or Coughlan.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Nothing player is a bit harsh I would say.. and POM would just be wasted at 7, seriously no point playing him at 7. Leamy at 7 would be preferable or Coughlan.

Its not. Ronan is fine at magners/rabo level but he can't make the step up. POM is probably a better 8 than coughlan but he is a better 7 than any other option available. Leamy is not a 7, never has been won't make it at this stage. The hec back row will be leamy-pom-coughlan and that looks the most balanced.

When has POM ever played at 7 though? Leamy has done, not sure if Coughlan has. Ronan would be better than all 3 there since he actually plays the position.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:When has POM ever played at 7 though? Leamy has done, not sure if Coughlan has. Ronan would be better than all 3 there since he actually plays the position.

POM has played there this season. Leamy played there over 5 years ago, he is a 6 and should be left there instead of being played elsewhere. Ronan has shown time and again that he is not able to compete with teams in the hec where they are physically stronger than him. He is not good enough and never will be, POM has showed more at 7 in his limited appearances there this summer.

The weakest Munster squad on paper I can remember in a long time, although red_stag's 22 looks stronger than I thought could be put together from when I first looked at the squad.

I'm a Saints fan and am pretty nervous, not just by Munster but also the Scarlets and Castres. If Castres decide to give it their full resorces home and away then I can see any team(s) going through. For Saints I think it depends how they play now the internationals are back - they picked up after last years 6N but then ran out of steam in the end.

B91212 wrote:The weakest Munster squad on paper I can remember in a long time, although red_stag's 22 looks stronger than I thought could be put together from when I first looked at the squad.

I'm a Saints fan and am pretty nervous, not just by Munster but also the Scarlets and Castres. If Castres decide to give it their full resorces home and away then I can see any team(s) going through. For Saints I think it depends how they play now the internationals are back - they picked up after last years 6N but then ran out of steam in the end.

Along with Ulster's group, its one of the most interesting and the results in the first week will go a long way to deciding what happens. If castres lose they may decide not to bother anymore.

Leamy played openside for Ireland at one point during the 6 nations I think.. he has definitely played there recently. But I do agree he is a 6. Though I also think POM is an 8 and should be developed there.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Leamy played openside for Ireland at one point during the 6 nations I think.. he has definitely played there recently. But I do agree he is a 6. Though I also think POM is an 8 and should be developed there.

He didn't during the six nations, he spent a bit of a match there during the warm ups. POM is an 8 but he can play elsewhere and it is the best use of resources to put him at 7 until wally is backed.

What about this new centre you guys have, Chambers? What is he like as a player?
Can Munster get a centre pairing that will work for the team better than last year? They will be especially important considering you have lost one of your best ball carriers (Wallace) and another player who was one of your best broken field runners (Jones).


Please excuse the ignorance re Chambers.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:What about this new centre you guys have, Chambers? What is he like as a player?
Can Munster get a centre pairing that will work for the team better than last year? They will be especially important considering you have lost one of your best ball carriers (Wallace) and another player who was one of your best broken field runners (Jones).


Please excuse the ignorance re Chambers.

From his ex-team mates:

“He’s a top bloke,” said Ioane. “If he gets quick ball he can break the line and cause teams problems.

“He had a bad year with injuries last season, but when he’s fit to play he can make something out of nothing.

“I’m looking forward to seeing how he gets on over there.”

Genia was also fulsome in his praise of his former team-mate. “From a player’s point of view, he’s an absolute team man,” he said.

“He does everything he can to make sure the team performs on the field. He does the basics very well. He’s a big direct player and runs hard, straight lines.

“He runs hard, tackles hard and has a great work ethic. He’s a classy player and he’ll do very well at Munster.”

http://www.limerickleader.ie/sport/chambers_can_be_a_big_hit_1_3178574

Apparently he has a wicked off-load as well. All depends on his injury situation I suppose and whether he settles. We'll wait and see.

Thanks Sin,

You reckon he will be first choice?
he's certainly got some good references!!!!!

Is he an out and out 12 or is he a SH utility back?

He is outside centre/wing I think. He played at outside centre against Connacht A at the weekend.

He made the bench for the Super 14 final so he must not be too bad.

I'd think our weather could be a massive problem for him though.

Weather? In terms of his playing style or just for him in general?!

So what then who goes to 12? Barnes? Mafi? Possibly Keatly?