Wladi-K - the next best HW

I like Wlad. I like that we have a HW boxing champion who is articulate and classy. He also comes across well on Ciani and Jenna J's show - every time they have him on. Jenna asked him who he thought was the next good HW - to which he responded:

JENNA: Okay now Wladimir, my Co-Host brought up before how there is not many challenges out there for you, and asking if it was difficult to stay motivated. But when you look at the heavyweight division right now, besides you and your brother, who do you think is the next best heavyweight?

KLITSCHKO: I think we’ll never know. Nobody knows! I’m trying to remember I was talking to Roger Federer, the most successful tennis player in the history of the sport, and he said it also, “You know in the beginning, I was not different than others. I was a regular tennis player and there was nothing special. Nobody had seen me before to become big.” But eventually he became the most dominating tennis player in history. I think that some of those young guys could develop themselves tremendously. I know that there is some American fighter that is young and ambitious and he’s going to fight now on HBO. He’s going to be shown for the public, which is great. It’s Seth Mitchell. I’m looking forward to that, and there are a lot of young fighters coming up. So I am definitely looking forward to it. As Emanuel Steward said to me, “Wlad you just have to keep fighting, keep on going, and it’s always in history like that. The big fights and good names are always coming up.” It’s like nothing has been changed in this routine of boxing. So you have to just keep yourself busy and the rest will work itself out and its own.

He's picked Seth - but he's also highlighted an important point. We write off the current crop of HW "talent" because none of them are Ali/Tyson/Johnson/Dempsey/Rocky. But it took years and hundreds of fights to make those fighters what they became.

So who knows - maybe one of these guys could go on - and Seth Mitchell after his incredible demolition job on Timur - doesn't seem a bad pick.

Something isn't right about the name Seth Mitchell, it doesn't give off an air of greatness like a 'Prince Naseem Hamed' or a 'Sugar Ray Leonard' or a 'Floyd Mayweather' does, if you know what I mean.

Sounds like he should be turning up some time soon on Eastenders as a long lost family member of Big Phil...

Fists of Fury wrote:Sounds like he should be turning up some time soon on Eastenders as a long lost family member of Big Phil...

But he has a good moniker - in "Mayhem". And it hasn't been made up by some pr company - it was his name when he was a defensive linebacker (or whatever the big fellas are called who smash the quarterback/stop the other team from trying to smash the quarterback).

Pretend he isn't called Seth - and just call him "Mayhem" Fists. That might work better for you?

Wlad is certainly one to put some boxing fans, including me, in a difficult position. I was all for Haye winning on the basis of coming across as more interesting, as well as of course being influenced by where Haye was from and due to the amount of people turning on him because of his ego, which I maintain is a traditional and sometimes refreshing part of boxing.

But no matter what values you hold true in any sport, it's always nice to see the classy guy win. I now feel ashamed for Haye, turning down more than one handshake and with his antics punching off certain cardboard and digital heads, as well as the t-shirts that need no mention. Wlad certainly comes across as an exceedingly thoughtful, cool and controlled person outside the ring (not that he isn't controlled in the ring itself).

Regarding Seth Mitchell, I haven't seen him fight yet, though I recently latched onto his growing rep following the Ibragimov fight. He seems to have considerable power (against who he's faced so far) and from what I've heard is one of a sparse number of current HW's who seem devoted and do not enter the ring grotesquely overweight. This would be news indeed and he'd deserve to at least get further than the fatso's that plague the modern division.

he was a beast, his power in both hands really surprised me...he looks like the guy haye was supposed to be...I'd like to see them square off...could be whoever lands first wins, but I'd have mitchell as favourite.

Devastating power and accuracy. Although I did think he telegraphed his shots and his hand speed wasnt amazing, and he didnt look like a "boxer", as in his fundamentals werent too sound. That being said I wouldnt want to be taing too many of them bombs!

Agreed cave man. With Seth - every shot hurts.

He's not that fluid - but nor was Marciano. One thing I do like was his switch. Watching one of his older fights, against Johnny White - White occasionally tried to attack Mitchell - and every time he did, Mitchell would step back, switch into defence mode, block and slip all the shots, step away and then step back into attack mode straight away. All the ideas are there in embryonic form - but he needs to be a little more fluid in changing between his plans.

Wlad would control Mitchell and maybe finish him depending on Mitchells chin and resistance, there's no real fight there in my opinion, could maybe cause Wlad problems at the beginning but he would struggle to maintain anything in my opinion.

Mitchell is powerful, but very inexperienced. If this era of HWs wasn't an utter joke, he could maybe build some experience with decent level fighters and take out Wlad in 3 years time to usher in a new era. But, he's already running out of stepping stones. There's so few challenges in the division that he'll struggle for someone to gain experience against. Wlad's already talking about him, and he's done nothing. Another decent win and he'll be punted in as the next K-bro opponent before he's even remotely ready, and he'll get broken down systematically.

There have been dominant HW champions in other eras, but this HW era is unique in that there's a double-headed dominant champion, who can take challengers out at twice the rate. Couple that with it being a generally poor era anyway, and with a shift in the US that sees most large athletically gifted men avoiding boxing in favour of basketball or American football - and you've got one joke of an HW scene.

Boxtthis wrote:Mitchell is powerful, but very inexperienced. If this era of HWs wasn't an utter joke, he could maybe build some experience with decent level fighters and take out Wlad in 3 years time to usher in a new era. But, he's already running out of stepping stones. There's so few challenges in the division that he'll struggle for someone to gain experience against. Wlad's already talking about him, and he's done nothing. Another decent win and he'll be punted in as the next K-bro opponent before he's even remotely ready, and he'll get broken down systematically.

There have been dominant HW champions in other eras, but this HW era is unique in that there's a double-headed dominant champion, who can take challengers out at twice the rate. Couple that with it being a generally poor era anyway, and with a shift in the US that sees most large athletically gifted men avoiding boxing in favour of basketball or American football - and you've got one joke of an HW scene.

This is something about people's perception of the K's that really grates on me. It's not a team sport. A win for Vitali doesn't count for Wlad. Michael Spinks doesn't have Ali on his resume yet people act as if Wlad avenged his loss to Sanders by himself.

When Lewis and Holyfield both held portions of the title they weren't seen as a "double headed" champion. In my opinion, two people can't dominate an individual sport like boxing.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:

Boxtthis wrote:Mitchell is powerful, but very inexperienced. If this era of HWs wasn't an utter joke, he could maybe build some experience with decent level fighters and take out Wlad in 3 years time to usher in a new era. But, he's already running out of stepping stones. There's so few challenges in the division that he'll struggle for someone to gain experience against. Wlad's already talking about him, and he's done nothing. Another decent win and he'll be punted in as the next K-bro opponent before he's even remotely ready, and he'll get broken down systematically.

There have been dominant HW champions in other eras, but this HW era is unique in that there's a double-headed dominant champion, who can take challengers out at twice the rate. Couple that with it being a generally poor era anyway, and with a shift in the US that sees most large athletically gifted men avoiding boxing in favour of basketball or American football - and you've got one joke of an HW scene.

This is something about people's perception of the K's that really grates on me. It's not a team sport. A win for Vitali doesn't count for Wlad. Michael Spinks doesn't have Ali on his resume yet people act as if Wlad avenged his loss to Sanders by himself.

When Lewis and Holyfield both held portions of the title they weren't seen as a "double headed" champion. In my opinion, two people can't dominate an individual sport like boxing.

They've already stated publicly that they won't fight each other and since Vitali re-emerged they've both strongly indicated that the target is to conquer the division between themselves. There's a reason both were campaigning verbally against Haye even though Wlad was the one who was actually fighting him.
You're right, boxing isn't a team sport but if the K's aren't an exception to the general concept then I don't know what they are.

Once they step in the ring, they're boxers. Same as everyobdy else. It's just the boxer, his opponent and the ref.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:

Boxtthis wrote:Mitchell is powerful, but very inexperienced. If this era of HWs wasn't an utter joke, he could maybe build some experience with decent level fighters and take out Wlad in 3 years time to usher in a new era. But, he's already running out of stepping stones. There's so few challenges in the division that he'll struggle for someone to gain experience against. Wlad's already talking about him, and he's done nothing. Another decent win and he'll be punted in as the next K-bro opponent before he's even remotely ready, and he'll get broken down systematically.

There have been dominant HW champions in other eras, but this HW era is unique in that there's a double-headed dominant champion, who can take challengers out at twice the rate. Couple that with it being a generally poor era anyway, and with a shift in the US that sees most large athletically gifted men avoiding boxing in favour of basketball or American football - and you've got one joke of an HW scene.

This is something about people's perception of the K's that really grates on me. It's not a team sport. A win for Vitali doesn't count for Wlad. Michael Spinks doesn't have Ali on his resume yet people act as if Wlad avenged his loss to Sanders by himself.

When Lewis and Holyfield both held portions of the title they weren't seen as a "double headed" champion. In my opinion, two people can't dominate an individual sport like boxing.

I never once said or implied that the K-bros deserve the double plaudits or an increased perception of dominance because of each others wins. This grates on me too. But, like it or not, once one Klitschko beats a challenger, there's seldom a clamour for that challenger to fight the other. It's not right, but it's the way it is. The 'double-headed' reference is simply to show that this era is unique in that the two dominant champions in this case will a) never fight each other, and b) have very similar physical attributes. In the example you use (Lewis and Holyfield) they were very different physically. They also met in two hard-fought challenges. The Klitschkos haven't had challenges like this in ages. They haven't had many fights to take something out of them. While Lewis and Holyfield were fighting one another, the other challengers (a crop of which that were better than the current era anyway) were fighting and gaining experience against each other. There is less scope for that in an era where the two dominant HWs will never challenge face off. Instead of fighting each other, and perhaps turning out a classic trilogy, they have to turn their attention to the other challengers. Once they dominate someone (usually through excellent use of their superior physical attributes) there's far less scope for fans (or even fighters) to want to get behind another match against a physical copy (regardless of their difference in styles/skillsets). Whereas, if you were a big guy and you lost to Lewis, you might be able to sell it to yourself (and the fans) that you could beat the smaller Holyfield. Going from Klitschko to another almost identically-sized Klitschko is a much harder sell. That was my point, that in this era, challengers uniquely tend to get hoovered up at twice the rate. Coupled with other issues, it makes for a big gap between the dominant top 2 and the rest of the pack. I think the fact that the K-bros are even talking about opponents like Chisora, Mitchell, Helenius is a point in support of the argument that challengers are being touted for a title shot before they're even remotely ready.

Knowsit17 wrote:

John Bloody Wayne wrote:

Boxtthis wrote:Mitchell is powerful, but very inexperienced. If this era of HWs wasn't an utter joke, he could maybe build some experience with decent level fighters and take out Wlad in 3 years time to usher in a new era. But, he's already running out of stepping stones. There's so few challenges in the division that he'll struggle for someone to gain experience against. Wlad's already talking about him, and he's done nothing. Another decent win and he'll be punted in as the next K-bro opponent before he's even remotely ready, and he'll get broken down systematically.

There have been dominant HW champions in other eras, but this HW era is unique in that there's a double-headed dominant champion, who can take challengers out at twice the rate. Couple that with it being a generally poor era anyway, and with a shift in the US that sees most large athletically gifted men avoiding boxing in favour of basketball or American football - and you've got one joke of an HW scene.

This is something about people's perception of the K's that really grates on me. It's not a team sport. A win for Vitali doesn't count for Wlad. Michael Spinks doesn't have Ali on his resume yet people act as if Wlad avenged his loss to Sanders by himself.

When Lewis and Holyfield both held portions of the title they weren't seen as a "double headed" champion. In my opinion, two people can't dominate an individual sport like boxing.

They've already stated publicly that they won't fight each other and since Vitali re-emerged they've both strongly indicated that the target is to conquer the division between themselves. There's a reason both were campaigning verbally against Haye even though Wlad was the one who was actually fighting him.
You're right, boxing isn't a team sport but if the K's aren't an exception to the general concept then I don't know what they are.

Agreed, Knowsit. Beyond all of what I said in the above post, there is the fact that the Klitschkos do engage in team-like behaviour in their attempts to clear out the division.

Boxtthis wrote:

John Bloody Wayne wrote:

Boxtthis wrote:Mitchell is powerful, but very inexperienced. If this era of HWs wasn't an utter joke, he could maybe build some experience with decent level fighters and take out Wlad in 3 years time to usher in a new era. But, he's already running out of stepping stones. There's so few challenges in the division that he'll struggle for someone to gain experience against. Wlad's already talking about him, and he's done nothing. Another decent win and he'll be punted in as the next K-bro opponent before he's even remotely ready, and he'll get broken down systematically.

There have been dominant HW champions in other eras, but this HW era is unique in that there's a double-headed dominant champion, who can take challengers out at twice the rate. Couple that with it being a generally poor era anyway, and with a shift in the US that sees most large athletically gifted men avoiding boxing in favour of basketball or American football - and you've got one joke of an HW scene.

This is something about people's perception of the K's that really grates on me. It's not a team sport. A win for Vitali doesn't count for Wlad. Michael Spinks doesn't have Ali on his resume yet people act as if Wlad avenged his loss to Sanders by himself.

When Lewis and Holyfield both held portions of the title they weren't seen as a "double headed" champion. In my opinion, two people can't dominate an individual sport like boxing.

I never once said or implied that the K-bros deserve the double plaudits or an increased perception of dominance because of each others wins. This grates on me too. But, like it or not, once one Klitschko beats a challenger, there's seldom a clamour for that challenger to fight the other. It's not right, but it's the way it is. The 'double-headed' reference is simply to show that this era is unique in that the two dominant champions in this case will a) never fight each other, and b) have very similar physical attributes. In the example you use (Lewis and Holyfield) they were very different physically. They also met in two hard-fought challenges. The Klitschkos haven't had challenges like this in ages. They haven't had many fights to take something out of them. While Lewis and Holyfield were fighting one another, the other challengers (a crop of which that were better than the current era anyway) were fighting and gaining experience against each other. There is less scope for that in an era where the two dominant HWs will never challenge face off. Instead of fighting each other, and perhaps turning out a classic trilogy, they have to turn their attention to the other challengers. Once they dominate someone (usually through excellent use of their superior physical attributes) there's far less scope for fans (or even fighters) to want to get behind another match against a physical copy (regardless of their difference in styles/skillsets). Whereas, if you were a big guy and you lost to Lewis, you might be able to sell it to yourself (and the fans) that you could beat the smaller Holyfield. Going from Klitschko to another almost identically-sized Klitschko is a much harder sell. That was my point, that in this era, challengers uniquely tend to get hoovered up at twice the rate. Coupled with other issues, it makes for a big gap between the dominant top 2 and the rest of the pack. I think the fact that the K-bros are even talking about opponents like Chisora, Mitchell, Helenius is a point in support of the argument that challengers are being touted for a title shot before they're even remotely ready.

Well put, I don't really disagree with any of it.

I agree with Boxtthis point on this. Also, the Klitschkos fighting each other isnt really the solution to the heavyweight problem. All it does is confirm which one is better at a given point in time. But the chasm between themselves and the rest still remains. Say that a few years ago they fought, and for arguments sake Vitali beats Wlad. What really changes? You have established the better Klitschko, but its still two guys who are going to by miles better than the rest. One Klitschko champ and one Klitscho his never ending number 1 contender. They are still going to plow through the competition at record speed the difference is one will be defending his number 1 status instead of a title.

So what do you do? Just have Vitali and Wlad fight each other every six months for 5 years? At best the titles may switch around between the pair but they are still going to collectively dominate the rest.

It has been a similar case with Pacquiao and Mayweather at welterweight over the last few years, albeit welter has been a richer division. But the pair of them have basically taken care of every challenge in there and wiped out the division. The instances where one of them fights the others leftover becomes a point of exasperation with most people and loses its sense of meaning.

I think this is just what happens when you have a dominant figure/s in a division.