Who is 606V2 Pound for Pound Number 1?

First topic message reminder :

Pretty simple, Floyd or Manny? Or maybe someone else if you're feeling adventurous!

There is no point, if you don't like it move on

azania wrote:Oh boy. This is not another Floyd/Manny debate is it? Also why cant certain posters debate sensibly without resorting to unnecessary insults?

I'm watching this thread.

~ Why, sir, I do believe it was YOU who have completely demeaned all that is holy in boxing and humanity with such flippant classics as "Just take the test, Manny," as if tests that both parties have agreed to were holding the fight back.

Mr. Moneybags has backed out of both fights both times, additionally backing off his requested venue date in the first fight AND announcing a 2 yr retirement for the 2nd fight.

Mr. Moneybags has yet to take the initial test that he demanded for the first fight after all the T & Is were crossed and dotted. That he would comeback for a small money fight against Marquez when he could have the big money winner of Hatton/Pacquiao tells me he is not serious about boxing or defending some P4P crown he inherited after Taylor dethroned Hopkins.

Need I add that he never defended against #2 Mr. Manny, but instead retired leaving Mr. Manny to clean out the top guys in his division, Cotto, Marg, and Clottey.

Mr. Manny won his crown fair and square and defended against #2 when it really mattered. Donaire and Martinez have both done enough to take over the 2-3 spots as they are actually making good fights and attempting to take on all comers as they move up in divisions.

That sir, is sensible, not taking up the cry of some poor addled cry of ex-con relatives on probation trying to keep their gravytrain going.

Too Late.....way too late......

If you all hate talking to D4 so much, why do you talk to D4?

I take it nobody has used the foe option then

I have no real problem with anyone on here, just because someone is a Floyd Mayweather fan, doesn't make them a bad person.

Serriously there are far worse things in the world for people to dislike one another for.

[quote="Perfessor Albertus Lion V"]

azania wrote:Oh boy. This is not another Floyd/Manny debate is it? Also why cant certain posters debate sensibly without resorting to unnecessary insults?

I'm watching this thread.

Need I add that he never defended against #2 Mr. Manny, but instead retired leaving Mr. Manny to clean out the top guys in his division, Cotto, Marg, and Clottey.

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This is really inaccurate. Cotto, Margarto and Clottey had all been beaten within their last two fights before Pacquaio.

The flip side is that Mayweather took care of De la Hoya, Hatton and Mosely before Pacquiao went after the scraps. These wins were also at a much more credible timing than Pacquiao.

Mayweather isnt perfect but we should let D4 monopolise the Pacquiao propaganda.

Perfessor Albertus Lion V wrote:

azania wrote:Oh boy. This is not another Floyd/Manny debate is it? Also why cant certain posters debate sensibly without resorting to unnecessary insults?

I'm watching this thread.

~ Why, sir, I do believe it was YOU who have completely demeaned all that is holy in boxing and humanity with such flippant classics as "Just take the test, Manny," as if tests that both parties have agreed to were holding the fight back.

Mr. Moneybags has backed out of both fights both times, additionally backing off his requested venue date in the first fight AND announcing a 2 yr retirement for the 2nd fight.

Mr. Moneybags has yet to take the initial test that he demanded for the first fight after all the T & Is were crossed and dotted. That he would comeback for a small money fight against Marquez when he could have the big money winner of Hatton/Pacquiao tells me he is not serious about boxing or defending some P4P crown he inherited after Taylor dethroned Hopkins.

Need I add that he never defended against #2 Mr. Manny, but instead retired leaving Mr. Manny to clean out the top guys in his division, Cotto, Marg, and Clottey.

Mr. Manny won his crown fair and square and defended against #2 when it really mattered. Donaire and Martinez have both done enough to take over the 2-3 spots as they are actually making good fights and attempting to take on all comers as they move up in divisions.

That sir, is sensible, not taking up the cry of some poor addled cry of ex-con relatives on probation trying to keep their gravytrain going.

Too Late.....way too late......

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Pac's refusal to understand the meaning of the word random scupper the first bout? Also didn't all of Pac's victims suffer bad defeats prior to taking on Pac? Clottey - ;ost to Cotto. Cotto - destroyed by Marg. Marg - Owned by SSM. SSM - completely destroyed by Floyd. Hatton - destroyed by floyd so much so that he was reduced to head-butting ring posts. When is Manny goint to fight a fresh fighter?

D4 - can you put up a link to the thread on the 'other forum' you keep referring to please, wouldn't mind having a look, cheers, SBS.

King Beer wrote:

Sir. badgerhands wrote:This seems to be a whole thread of people asking for others to be banned!!
Is that what it's come to?
Where's the love!!!

Not like the WRASSLE fans!

How do Sir Badger, how's Mrs Badger? Due soon is she not?

*****************************************************************************************************************************************************************The WRASSLE fans were the height of manners and decorum KB.

Mrs Badger is due in 2 weeks, still floating the names Manny and Oscar to her but she ain't going for it!!
Hope your well chap.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:D4 - can you put up a link to the thread on the 'other forum' you keep referring to please, wouldn't mind having a look, cheers, SBS.

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466723

As you can see they have moved on while we are still on the same debate. Boxing is not about two character they are quite of few excelent boxers out there who are not getting the plaudits they deserve.

Read some of the comments.

This is not no pro Manny site just a boxing forum for fans all over the world, a lot of them have extreme views on topics but they are a minority.

D4thincarnation wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:D4 - can you put up a link to the thread on the 'other forum' you keep referring to please, wouldn't mind having a look, cheers, SBS.

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466723

As you can see they have moved on while we are still on the same debate. Boxing is not about two character they are quite of few excelent boxers out there who are not getting the plaudits they deserve.

Read some of the comments.

This is not no pro Manny site just a boxing forum for fans all over the world, a lot of them have extreme views on topics but they are a minority.

How many responded to that? Hardly representative is it?

More than responded to this poll.

And the comment basicaly Martinez could be no.1 and there is no way Floyd should be there.

D4thincarnation wrote:More than responded to this poll.

And the comment basicaly Martinez could be no.1 and there is no way Floyd should be there.

I'd rather go with former boxers, esp[ecially those who have fought both of them that internet fans.

I personally go with neiter and use my own judgement on what I've seen both boxers do in their previous fights.

But my point was not to do with individual choices is why this forum is so out of step with the rest of boxing considing who should be p4p no.1

And that is a different question that who will win out of Pacquiao and Mayweather if they were to fight.

D4thincarnation wrote:I personally go with neiter and use my own judgement on what I've seen both boxers do in their previous fights.

But my point was not to do with individual choices is why this forum is so out of step with the rest of boxing considing who should be p4p no.1

And that is a different question that who will win out of Pacquiao and Mayweather if they were to fight.

If you go with neither, then why use another forum to back up your story?

Based on the past 12 months, I would put Pac as '1. But Floyd is head and shoulders above all others when active.

If the question is who is the greatest p4p fighter of the modern era, then no doubt some people will pick Mayweather. But, if the question is who is the greatest fighter right now. I would direct them to the recent fights of Sergio Martinez, Manny Pacquiao, Nonito Donaire and a number of others. They have won multiple world titles, defeated top names in their division and even moved up and beaten top names in higher weight divisions.

Mayweather, not saying he doesn't deserve to be no 1 over a longer time period, but right now he's participated in two fights since his comeback. One against a fighter moving up 2 weight classes and another who was getting on a bit, no world title fights either. Oliver McCall could still make the top 5 at HW, perhaps James Toney at MW, Barrera in the p4p lists. After a while the rankings need to move on.

If Pacquiao didn't fight for another year after Mosely, he may not be no 1 for me. Because over that year and a half, his record probably doesn't warrant it. Its time to look at fighters who are winning titles and beating their main rivals right now. What about Tim Bradley, with recent victories over Devon Alexander, Lamont Peterson, Kendall Holt? Carl Froch has bascally taken apart his weight division and is marching through LHW as well.

My point is not that everyone should agree with me, my point is why is this forum out of step with the rest of boxing.

You may say that some ex-pros say Mayweather will beat Pacquiao but this question is who is p4p number one.

It doesn't show this forum in a good light.

You asked that question on any other forum and you will get a 3-1 split minimum saying Pacquiao infact you will get more people saying Martinez should be p4p no.1 that Mayweather.

ArchBritishchris wrote:If the question is who is the greatest p4p fighter of the modern era, then no doubt some people will pick Mayweather. But, if the question is who is the greatest fighter right now. I would direct them to the recent fights of Sergio Martinez, Manny Pacquiao, Nonito Donaire and a number of others. They have won multiple world titles, defeated top names in their division and even moved up and beaten top names in higher weight divisions.

Mayweather, not saying he doesn't deserve to be no 1 over a longer time period, but right now he's participated in two fights since his comeback. One against a fighter moving up 2 weight classes and another who was getting on a bit, no world title fights either. Oliver McCall could still make the top 5 at HW, perhaps James Toney at MW, Barrera in the p4p lists. After a while the rankings need to move on.

If Pacquiao didn't fight for another year after Mosely, he may not be no 1 for me. Because over that year and a half, his record probably doesn't warrant it. Its time to look at fighters who are winning titles and beating their main rivals right now. What about Tim Bradley, with recent victories over Devon Alexander, Lamont Peterson, Kendall Holt? Carl Froch has bascally taken apart his weight division and is marching through LHW as well.

Given the level of opposition over the past 12 months, then Martinez should be 1. But you know that judging the P4P is not simply based on the past 12 months.

D4

This forum has probably thrown up a result out of sync with most lists because people can't bare to vote for Manny because of the incessant rubbish you come out with. It's YOU that have turned many people against supporting Manny on here - NO-ONE OR ANYTHING ELSE HAS CONTRIBUTED.

Understand? The message is simple - GO AWAY

D4thincarnation wrote:I personally go with neiter and use my own judgement on what I've seen both boxers do in their previous fights.

But my point was not to do with individual choices is why this forum is so out of step with the rest of boxing considing who should be p4p no.1

And that is a different question that who will win out of Pacquiao and Mayweather if they were to fight.

So you're more than happy to bring into it what other people have to say about FMJ when it suits your opinion? But not this time because it goes against your "point". You're happy to use your own eyes when it doesn't suit your arguement, and that sunshine is a FACT. Muppet

Just showing yourself up again D4, how long will it take you to get the message that just like the old 606 you're not welcome here? That your views are met with disdain and that once again you're poisening the forum?

Do you know Mayweather hasn’t competed for a world title for over 3 years (Dec 2007)? Since that date, Pacquiao has won world titles in 4 different weight classes, he also has 7 victories to Mayweather's 2. Thats to great an inactivity for me. Martinez has appeared in 8 fights and won 3 world titles. He beat two of the top names in his weight division (Pavlik and Williams).

Donaire - 7 fights, 3 world titles in different weight classes. Another fighter often mentioned, Juan Manuel Marquez, 7 fights and 3 world titles. He has Casamayor, Katsidis, Juan Diaz x 2 on his record. A reigning champion holding two world titles. Tim Bradley - 6 fights, 3 world titles, has beaten Alexander, Witter, Holt, Peterson. Currently holds two world championship belts. Personally, I'd rank one of the new bread at the top spot. In a years time, I don't think Pacquiao will be there either. Mayweather himself is 34, i'm not sure if he's coming back.

ArchBritishchris wrote:Do you know Mayweather hasn’t competed for a world title for over 3 years (Dec 2007)? Since that date, Pacquiao has won world titles in 4 different weight classes, he also has 7 victories to Mayweather's 2. Thats to great an inactivity for me. Martinez has appeared in 8 fights and won 3 world titles. He beat two of the top names in his weight division (Pavlik and Williams).

Donaire - 7 fights, 3 world titles in different weight classes. Another fighter often mentioned, Juan Manuel Marquez, 7 fights and 3 world titles. He has Casamayor, Katsidis, Juan Diaz x 2 on his record. A reigning champion holding two world titles. Tim Bradley - 6 fights, 3 world titles, has beaten Alexander, Witter, Holt, Peterson. Currently holds two world championship belts. Personally, I'd rank one of the new bread at the top spot. In a years time, I don't think Pacquiao will be there either. Mayweather himself is 34, i'm not sure if he's coming back.

If Floyd fought once a year, he would still be the best P4P. He is head and shoulders better than all else in terms of pure boxing skills.

Mayweather's 34 and has had most of his time taken up recently by out of the ring incidents, his skills could be waining. Boxing may not interest in him anymore, certainly a great fighter from years gone by. In terms of skill, Sergio Martinez isn't doing to badly. Although he has only achieved a paltry 5 votes above.

ArchBritishchris wrote:Mayweather's 34 and has had most of his time taken up recently by out of the ring incidents, his skills could be waining. Boxing may not interest in him anymore, certainly a great fighter from years gone by. In terms of skill, Sergio Martinez isn't doing to badly. Although he has only achieved a paltry 5 votes above.

I hear what you say. But Floyd has never taken a beating during a fight. Keeps himself very fit always and is on par if not better than BHop in fighting at his pace. He is a class operator in the ring. His skills may have wained but they are still far superior to anyone else out there.

Wouldn't be the first time Martinez has beeen screwed over by the judges...he he he

ArchBritishchris wrote:Mayweather's 34 and has had most of his time taken up recently by out of the ring incidents, his skills could be waining. Boxing may not interest in him anymore, certainly a great fighter from years gone by. In terms of skill, Sergio Martinez isn't doing to badly. Although he has only achieved a paltry 5 votes above.

Martinez only got 2 votes and before I mention that the bigger argument was that Martinez should be p4p no.1 from other site he had zero votes.

Martinez along with Donaire are special fighters, and both are great fighters to watch.

D4thincarnation wrote:

ArchBritishchris wrote:Mayweather's 34 and has had most of his time taken up recently by out of the ring incidents, his skills could be waining. Boxing may not interest in him anymore, certainly a great fighter from years gone by. In terms of skill, Sergio Martinez isn't doing to badly. Although he has only achieved a paltry 5 votes above.

Martinez only got 2 votes and before I mention that the bigger argument was that Martinez should be p4p no.1 from other site he had zero votes.

Martinez along with Donaire are special fighters, and both are great fighters to watch.

Totally agree with your last sentence.

How has this thread/ friendly poll descended into this?

Over 175 replies- people are seriously obsessed with Manny and Floyd!

Trust me, there is much more to boxing than PBF vs. Pacman.......

There's Haye vs. klitschko to look forward too!!! (JK!)

ArchBritishchris wrote:Do you know Mayweather hasn’t competed for a world title for over 3 years (Dec 2007)? Since that date, Pacquiao has won world titles in 4 different weight classes, he also has 7 victories to Mayweather's 2. Thats to great an inactivity for me. Martinez has appeared in 8 fights and won 3 world titles. He beat two of the top names in his weight division (Pavlik and Williams).

Donaire - 7 fights, 3 world titles in different weight classes. Another fighter often mentioned, Juan Manuel Marquez, 7 fights and 3 world titles. He has Casamayor, Katsidis, Juan Diaz x 2 on his record. A reigning champion holding two world titles. Tim Bradley - 6 fights, 3 world titles, has beaten Alexander, Witter, Holt, Peterson. Currently holds two world championship belts. Personally, I'd rank one of the new bread at the top spot. In a years time, I don't think Pacquiao will be there either. Mayweather himself is 34, i'm not sure if he's coming back.

Well, he beat Mosley when Mosley held a title (and was considered THE man at 147). The only difference is that he didn't pay the sanctioning fees. No-one in their right minds would think that the fight lost something through not having a bauble on the line.

azania wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Pac's refusal to understand the meaning of the word random scupper the first bout? Also didn't all of Pac's victims suffer bad defeats prior to taking on Pac? Clottey - ;ost to Cotto. Cotto - destroyed by Marg. Marg - Owned by SSM. SSM - completely destroyed by Floyd. Hatton - destroyed by floyd so much so that he was reduced to head-butting ring posts. When is Manny goint to fight a fresh fighter?

~ Oh my, Lions & Tigers & Bears is it in Ozzo Land now is it?

Any gradeschooler in Ozzo Land who can figure birthdays knows that Mr. Manny's last 3 opponents were loooooooongtime Ring ranked fighters in the prime 29-32 age grouping compared to the "retirement" ages of 36 and 39 for Mr. Moneybags' last two in that time frame.

Mr. Moneybags last two opponents also had recent losses to the two guys he has steadfastly refused to fight in spite of offers, Mr. Manny and Mr. Cotto, all of whom have been engaged in a 5 yr round robin with the Ring Top 5, Marg, Clottey, Mosley, and Williams before he had to move up a division, so it's expected to have losses against that level of comp.

Moreover, Mr. Marquez was unranked in the welter divisions and against Mr. Mosley, Mr. Moneybags used the same 14 day drug testing cutoff period that Mr. Manny agreed to in the beginning, so what part of REAL random drug tests don't you understand?

You cannot name a credible fighter for Mr. Manny to fight better than he has fought in the face of two extensive signed agreements that were squelched by Mr. Moneybags at the last moment, which is exactly why he fights Mr. Mosley. There are no other big money fights available and the deal was easy to make on a very busy schedule that Mr. Manny has maintained these past few years.

Nobody cares if you wish Mr. Moneybags to be #1 save boxrec and his fans. Everyone else that publishes official consensus polls of "boxing experts" has Mr. Manny #1, nor can you provide credible analysis other than the Rube Goldberg metric that boxrec uses.

Time to freshen up for the pom-pom photo shoot me thinks.

Perfessor Albertus Lion V wrote:

azania wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Pac's refusal to understand the meaning of the word random scupper the first bout? Also didn't all of Pac's victims suffer bad defeats prior to taking on Pac? Clottey - ;ost to Cotto. Cotto - destroyed by Marg. Marg - Owned by SSM. SSM - completely destroyed by Floyd. Hatton - destroyed by floyd so much so that he was reduced to head-butting ring posts. When is Manny goint to fight a fresh fighter?

~ Oh my, Lions & Tigers & Bears is it in Ozzo Land now is it?

Any gradeschooler in Ozzo Land who can figure birthdays knows that Mr. Manny's last 3 opponents were loooooooongtime Ring ranked fighters in the prime 29-32 age grouping compared to the "retirement" ages of 36 and 39 for Mr. Moneybags' last two in that time frame.

Mr. Moneybags last two opponents also had recent losses to the two guys he has steadfastly refused to fight in spite of offers, Mr. Manny and Mr. Cotto, all of whom have been engaged in a 5 yr round robin with the Ring Top 5, Marg, Clottey, Mosley, and Williams before he had to move up a division, so it's expected to have losses against that level of comp.

Moreover, Mr. Marquez was unranked in the welter divisions and against Mr. Mosley, Mr. Moneybags used the same 14 day drug testing cutoff period that Mr. Manny agreed to in the beginning, so what part of REAL random drug tests don't you understand?

You cannot name a credible fighter for Mr. Manny to fight better than he has fought in the face of two extensive signed agreements that were squelched by Mr. Moneybags at the last moment, which is exactly why he fights Mr. Mosley. There are no other big money fights available and the deal was easy to make on a very busy schedule that Mr. Manny has maintained these past few years.

Nobody cares if you wish Mr. Moneybags to be #1 save boxrec and his fans. Everyone else that publishes official consensus polls of "boxing experts" has Mr. Manny #1, nor can you provide credible analysis other than the Rube Goldberg metric that boxrec uses.

Time to freshen up for the pom-pom photo shoot me thinks.

Come again?

If that made any sense i'd offer an opinion but I have one thing to say, there was no 14 day cut off for the Mosley fight it was a fabrication on the part of Arum, try watching 24/7 for the fight.

Mosley just got tested last 18 days before the fight and Mayweather was last tested 19 days before the fight.

Just a coincidence then.

Thats not the truth of the matter is it now D4, Mosley was tested 3 days before the fight the same day he left his training camp for las Vegas but dont let facts get in the way.

Too late, Ghosty-agent Mulder here has all the answers, as per...

imperialghosty wrote:Thats not the truth of the matter is it now D4, Mosley was tested 3 days before the fight the same day he left his training camp for las Vegas but dont let facts get in the way.

http://www.boxingscene.com/nsac-mayweather-mosley-testing-cut-off-18-days--27962

Do you care to change your statement.

Nevada State Athletic Commission, which currently doesn’t conduct blood tests, had received the USADA reports under an agreement with Golden Boy Promotions who staged the Mayweather-Mosley fight and that the reports indicated the tests were taken 18 and 19 days before the fight even though Mayweather had insisted on 14 days.

No I don't care to change my statement D4 because as per usual the evidence you find isn't from a party who involved in the fight

Off-topic!!!

D4thincarnation wrote:Mosley just got tested last 18 days before the fight and Mayweather was last tested 19 days before the fight.

Just a coincidence then.

D4, do you understand the meaning of random? It means that tests can be taken at ANYTIME before the fight. No cut off point whatsoever. SSM and FMJ did not know that that would be the last test.

imperialghosty wrote:No I don't care to change my statement D4 because as per usual the evidence you find isn't from a party who involved in the fight

http://www.examiner.com/fight-sports-in-national/official-copy-of-floyd-mayweather-jr-and-shane-mosley-drug-test-summary

I can now confirm Bob Arum's comments, from earlier today, that Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Shane Mosley were last blood tested 18-19 days from the fight.

Before the blood tests on fight day, Floyd Mayweather Jr.'s last blood test was on April 13th and Shane Mosley's last pre-fight day blood test was on April 12th.

Are you still denying the facts.

D4thincarnation wrote:

imperialghosty wrote:No I don't care to change my statement D4 because as per usual the evidence you find isn't from a party who involved in the fight

http://www.examiner.com/fight-sports-in-national/official-copy-of-floyd-mayweather-jr-and-shane-mosley-drug-test-summary

I can now confirm Bob Arum's comments, from earlier today, that Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Shane Mosley were last blood tested 18-19 days from the fight.

Before the blood tests on fight day, Floyd Mayweather Jr.'s last blood test was on April 13th and Shane Mosley's last pre-fight day blood test was on April 12th.

Are you still denying the facts.

RANDOM

Like Bob Arum can be trusted on this issue. MODS!!!

BALTIMORA wrote:Like Bob Arum can be trusted on this issue. MODS!!!

Yes???

I am denying them considering the fact they contradict what the chart itself said and the two words Bob Arum are slang for lying :P

THIS THREAD ISN'T ABOUT PACQUIAO OR MAYWEATHER OUTSIDE OF THE CONTEXT OF THE ORIGINAL QUESTION. NOR IS IT ABOUT RANDOM TESTING, THE NATURE OF WHICH A CERTAIN POSTER FAILS TO UNDERSTAND. THIS FORUM IS RAPIDLY BECOMING NOTHING MORE THAN THE MANNY FANBOY SHOW.

Perhaps the USADA website is a good source? The final tests were urine tests http://www.usada.org/mayweather-mosley/

Random is random

Indeed. Random means the testing can be at any time or times within the designated testing period. What's so hard to understand about that? Why has this thread become another forum for D4 to get a hard on over Pacquiao?!?

imperialghosty wrote:Random is random

So now you admit you were wrong.

Mods, can someone please stop this idiot polluting every bloody thread with the same rubbish..?