Open your eyes Northern Hemisphere dam fools

by Guest Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:15 pm

On twitter i follow loads of Southern Hemisphere players and reading how they are "chilling" "got a camp fire going" "shopping with the wife" basically enjoying a nice long off season and will be ready and pumped to take on the world's best club tournament the Super15 nice and refreshed,
the super15 will a nice sharp burst of energetic flowing rugby but over before it becomes boring or asks to much from the players bodies,
Northern Hemisphere teams will arrive in June battered and tired with most players having no rest since August 2010,
The teams from the North will be sent home with nothing but sore bum whilst the lads from the South enjoyed a warm up for the amazing Tri Nations,
they then enjoy a little more time off before coming North to take on us lot,tiredness shows a little sometimes a one of them may fall, but it does take something of a monumental effort from one of our teams to get the scalp.

We are no better than a man sitting in the dark reading by candle light when all you need to do is buy a light bulb.

by Guest Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:25 pm

So what you're saying is that they play us at the end of our season when we're knackered and they're fresh and they beat us, and then they play us at the end of their season when they're knackered and they still beat us. I think that just means that they're better!

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:32 pm

Hang on didnt Gatland winned the world cup by sending wales to some soviet gulag instead of letting them go home for tea?

Maybe they should look at what the players are doing with their time off, apparently gettting drunk and breaking things isnt as good for you as chilling out on a nice beach and having a family barbie. I nominate Will Smith for new England coach.

by SecretFly Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:01 pm

Griff wrote:So what you're saying is that they play us at the end of our season when we're knackered and they're fresh and they beat us, and then they play us at the end of their season when they're knackered and they still beat us. I think that just means that they're better!

A rare bird. Both funny and true

by greybeard Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:07 pm

Griff wrote:So what you're saying is that they play us at the end of our season when we're knackered and they're fresh and they beat us, and then they play us at the end of their season when they're knackered and they still beat us. I think that just means that they're better!

No, no, no.

They beat us at the end of our season when we're knackered and they're fresh, then they beat us at the start of our season when they're 'well drilled' and we're 'lacking match fitness'

by SecretFly Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:21 pm

greybeard wrote:
Griff wrote:So what you're saying is that they play us at the end of our season when we're knackered and they're fresh and they beat us, and then they play us at the end of their season when they're knackered and they still beat us. I think that just means that they're better!

No, no, no.

They beat us at the end of our season when we're knackered and they're fresh, then they beat us at the start of our season when they're 'well drilled' and we're 'lacking match fitness'

Yes, but the point is that 'they're fresh', at the beginning of their season, yet we're 'lacking match fitness' at the beginning of ours. Why are they simply not 'lacking match fitness' at the beginning of their season after the beaches and hammocks and barbis?

by Golden Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:25 pm

Heiniken cups the best club competition anyway!

by Guest Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:04 pm

The top half of the super 15 table would walk the Heiniken cup, i ou don't think so your in denial

by Red Right Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:23 pm

Excellent observation View....have u ever wondered why NH players get paid so much more than their southern counterparts? I'm sure its something do with the number of games played! I'll leave the economics lesson for another time.

by SecretFly Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:25 pm

viewtothegym wrote:The top half of the super 15 table would walk the Heiniken cup, i ou don't think so your in denial

Like New Zealand walked all over France? Like Australia walked all over Ireland? Like South Africa walked all over Wales?

The best of the SH players cruised through those games. Don't be so fatalistic. Super 15 defences are practically non-existent - it's designed for wow, and all sides buy into the deal. You really think Heineken Cup giants would relinquish their much more brutal and effective defensive games so easily?

by nganboy Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:45 pm

When this thread started I just knew it would end up as it has now started to end up.

...but Secret why is it that NH teams struggle to score tries against practically non-existent defences.

..aah it's not the quality of the defence its the speed of the attack.

..but that's just because of the weather and the hard grounds. If we had hard grounds..........

head going to explode.... must...drink ... Ale

by monty junior Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:27 pm

SecretFly wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:The top half of the super 15 table would walk the Heiniken cup, i ou don't think so your in denial

Like New Zealand walked all over France? Like Australia walked all over Ireland? Like South Africa walked all over Wales?

The best of the SH players cruised through those games. Don't be so fatalistic. Super 15 defences are practically non-existent - it's designed for wow, and all sides buy into the deal. You really think Heineken Cup giants would relinquish their much more brutal and effective defensive games so easily?

Well to be fair New Zealand could have beat France by 50 in the group stages if they had wanted too. Without Carter though they are alot more vulnerable, your never going to get a representative big margin in a WC final though Eg Springboks beat England 36-0 in the group stages in 2007 but only 15-6 in the final.

by nganboy Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:40 pm

Red Right wrote:Excellent observation View....have u ever wondered why NH players get paid so much more than their southern counterparts? I'm sure its something do with the number of games played! I'll leave the economics lesson for another time.

You might want to review that Economics lesson. If people all over the world got paid more or less just because of hours worked then Chinese wage workers would be right up at the top. Wages are dictated by many factors - more likely to do with loads of people living in Europe who are willing to pay money to watch rugby on TV than the few extra games the players play.

by Guest Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:24 am

greybeard wrote:
Griff wrote:So what you're saying is that they play us at the end of our season when we're knackered and they're fresh and they beat us, and then they play us at the end of their season when they're knackered and they still beat us. I think that just means that they're better!

No, no, no.

They beat us at the end of our season when we're knackered and they're fresh, then they beat us at the start of our season when they're 'well drilled' and we're 'lacking match fitness'

I'd hardly call November (the Autumn Internationald) the start of our season. We're 3 months in, have played a mixture of leagues and cup competitions, so are well into our stride in the NH.

by SecretFly Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:56 am

nganboy wrote:When this thread started I just knew it would end up as it has now started to end up.

...but Secret why is it that NH teams struggle to score tries against practically non-existent defences.

..aah it's not the quality of the defence its the speed of the attack.

..but that's just because of the weather and the hard grounds. If we had hard grounds..........

head going to explode.... must...drink ...

Are SH sides more lethal in attack?... Hell yeah, as they say in Mid Atlantic watering holes! Wink

- Not my point.

Why do NH teams struggle to score tries against practically non-existent defences?... Simple, because said SH sides are too busy scoring tries of their own, or threatening to! (ie. NH sides are too busy doing what they do best - defending!) NH sides have overall a plodding, bitsy version of attack, that always tends to kill their hopes.

It IS the quality of defence AS WELL AS the speed of the attack... even any of your regular NZ gods of rugby would teach you that.

NH sides usually meet SH in one off games, but in extended competition where sides get losing bonus points and can plot and plan their way through the pools, I'm saying that it is too fatalistic to say the top half of the Super 15 would 'walk' the Heineken. One of them might indeed win it, but 'walking' it? I personally don't think so. Listen before you leap, nganboy

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:01 am

So whats Scotlands excuse for being so cinsitently rubbish?
Their players dont have to worry about the knockout rounds of the HC, the league playoffs, a fourth AI, or the Anglo Welsh.

They must get weeks of sitting around eating porridge and watching caber tossing, but can barely compete with Argentina let alone Sanzaria.

by SecretFly Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:05 am

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:So whats Scotlands excuse for being so cinsitently rubbish?
Their players dont have to worry about the knockout rounds of the HC, the league playoffs, a fourth AI, or the Anglo Welsh.

They must get weeks of sitting around eating porridge and watching caber tossing, but can barely compete with Argentina let alone Sanzaria.

Oops, hope that one doesn't come back to haunt you in the Six Nations Peter.....

by Dorothy_Mantooth Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:12 am

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:.
They must get weeks of sitting around eating porridge and watching caber tossing

No they don't.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:19 am

SecretFly wrote:
nganboy wrote:When this thread started I just knew it would end up as it has now started to end up.

...but Secret why is it that NH teams struggle to score tries against practically non-existent defences.

..aah it's not the quality of the defence its the speed of the attack.

..but that's just because of the weather and the hard grounds. If we had hard grounds..........

head going to explode.... must...drink ...

Are SH sides more lethal in attack?... Hell yeah, as they say in Mid Atlantic watering holes! - Not my point.

Why do NH teams struggle to score tries against practically non-existent defences?... Simple, because said SH sides are too busy scoring tries of their own, or threatening to! (ie. NH sides are too busy doing what they do best - defending!) NH sides have overall a plodding, bitsy version of attack, that always tends to kill their hopes.

It IS the quality of defence AS WELL AS the speed of the attack... even any of your regular NZ gods of rugby would teach you that.

NH sides usually meet SH in one off games, but in extended competition where sides get losing bonus points and can plot and plan their way through the pools, I'm saying that it is too fatalistic to say the top half of the Super 15 would 'walk' the Heineken. One of them might indeed win it, but 'walking' it? I personally don't think so. Listen before you leap, nganboy

I've said before but may as well repeat myself, ground conditions have a massive impact on the number of tries scored. Back in Febuary SXV teams were posting cricket scores on rock-hard pitches while Heineken Cup sides were wallowing in mud up North. Come May and the latter stages of the HEC plenty more tries were being scored as the grounds dried, while SXV games in NZ (which had a wet autumn) saw some pretty low scores.

In the wet, catching, passing, accelerating and sidestepping all get harder.

by geoff998rugby Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:22 am

viewtothegym wrote:The top half of the super 15 table would walk the Heiniken cup, i ou don't think so your in denial

Don't agree if there was a club competion between the best in the Heinken and the best in the Super 15 whilst the SH would clearly dominate I am convinced Leinster would make the top 4 and Toulouse the top 8.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:30 am

geoff998rugby wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:The top half of the super 15 table would walk the Heiniken cup, i ou don't think so your in denial

Don't agree if there was a club competion between the best in the Heinken and the best in the Super 15 whilst the SH would clearly dominate I am convinced Leinster would make the top 4 and Toulouse the top 8.

I agree. I don't think Leinster would win it, but they'd make for a tough semi-final.

Based on games I've seen over the last 12 months I'd score the global provinces as
1) Queensland Reds (especially on a dry track)
2) Crusaders
3) Leinster
4) Sharks
5) Bulls
6) Toulouse
7) Blues
8) Waratahs

by geoff998rugby Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:32 am

Sounds about right to me - thanks for a clear, measured and unbiased assessment.

Right now I'm in the good books of the Adminstrators what can I get away with devil

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:33 am

geoff998rugby wrote:Sounds about right to me - thanks for a clear, measured and unbiased assessment.

Right now I'm in the good books of the Adminstrators what can I get away with

by Red Right Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:17 am

nganboy wrote:
Red Right wrote:Excellent observation View....have u ever wondered why NH players get paid so much more than their southern counterparts? I'm sure its something do with the number of games played! I'll leave the economics lesson for another time.

You might want to review that Economics lesson. If people all over the world got paid more or less just because of hours worked then Chinese wage workers would be right up at the top. Wages are dictated by many factors - more likely to do with loads of people living in Europe who are willing to pay money to watch rugby on TV than the few extra games the players play.

Endorsements and advertising fees - which is how professional sport generates revenue - are directly related to the amount of exposure you generate - therefore the more games you play the more airtime you get the more you command for endorsements... airtime/rate will be decided by the size of the market.

A Chinese worker who is paid by the hour will get paid more if they work more hours. The rate they get paid will depend on the value they provide.....or what the communist dictator allows!!

No, my economics are good!!

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:21 am

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:.
They must get weeks of sitting around eating porridge and watching caber tossing

No they don't.

So what are they doing then? It surely cant be going round to meet and great the fans that would only take 5 minutes.

Leaving winding up the Scotts aside for a minute I dont see a lot fo difference in the current twittings form the S15 players to the ones they give during the seaosn. These guys tend to use their off time far bette rthan their NH counterparts fullstop, I guess its partly a cultural thing.
The demands of jet hopping between time zones and playing in tougher competitions surely offset the couple of extra weeks rest they get. Id love to see how many England players came back alive from consective home and away tours against SA and NZ. Bear in mind as well under the EPS the number of games a player can be used for by their club is limited, and that part of the outwash from the world cup report was that many players feltt like they werre being wrapped in cotton wool and not allowed to play/train as hard as they would have liked.
The makeup of the seasons and workloads may have a negative impact on the NH players, but I think the tone of this artcile overeggs it.

by Comfort Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:46 am

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote: I think the tone of this artcile overeggs it.

Pete, king of the understatement Wink

by Red Right Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:55 am

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:.
They must get weeks of sitting around eating porridge and watching caber tossing

No they don't.

So what are they doing then? It surely cant be going round to meet and great the fans that would only take 5 minutes.

Leaving winding up the Scotts aside for a minute I dont see a lot fo difference in the current twittings form the S15 players to the ones they give during the seaosn. These guys tend to use their off time far bette rthan their NH counterparts fullstop, I guess its partly a cultural thing.
The demands of jet hopping between time zones and playing in tougher competitions surely offset the couple of extra weeks rest they get. Id love to see how many England players came back alive from consective home and away tours against SA and NZ. Bear in mind as well under the EPS the number of games a player can be used for by their club is limited, and that part of the outwash from the world cup report was that many players feltt like they werre being wrapped in cotton wool and not allowed to play/train as hard as they would have liked.
The makeup of the seasons and workloads may have a negative impact on the NH players, but I think the tone of this artcile overeggs it.

Think you've hit the nail on the head there PSW. I went to NZ this time last year and there are huge cultural differences. Spending time outdoors whether it is surfing, fishing, cycling or any number of outdoor activities considered the norm over there (just as well too as their TV stations were crap). I don't see too many people whitewater rafting in the Thames!!

by SecretFly Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:14 am

Red Right wrote: I don't see too many people whitewater rafting in the Thames!!

Don't you instnatly die of Hebracoxilymanheliotosis if you do?

by Comfort Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:17 am

SecretFly wrote:
Red Right wrote: I don't see too many people whitewater rafting in the Thames!!

Don't you instnatly die of Hebracoxilymanheliotosis if you do?

Nope, you get eaten by a whale!

by monty junior Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:12 am

Kiwireddevil wrote:
geoff998rugby wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:The top half of the super 15 table would walk the Heiniken cup, i ou don't think so your in denial

Don't agree if there was a club competion between the best in the Heinken and the best in the Super 15 whilst the SH would clearly dominate I am convinced Leinster would make the top 4 and Toulouse the top 8.
I agree. I don't think Leinster would win it, but they'd make for a tough semi-final.

Based on games I've seen over the last 12 months I'd score the global provinces as
1) Queensland Reds (especially on a dry track)
2) Crusaders
3) Leinster
4) Sharks
5) Bulls
6) Toulouse
7) Blues
8) Waratahs

No Stormers? 2010 finalists and best of the SA group last season.

by gelodge Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:01 am

dam fools?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYClSGINHyU

by Guest Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:04 pm

No offence to Leinster fans because i to like the brand of rugby they are trying to play but a Super15 team would murder them,
Leinster and Toulouse are just the best of a bad bunch.

The sooner fans start accepting the superiority of the SH and demanding that the NH follows suit the more likely we will catch up.

by Feckless Rogue Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:37 pm

I think Leinster and Toulouse would do very well in the Super 15. They could both deal with the speed and intensity of Super Rugby no problem. They're the two best attacking teams in Europe. Both teams are full of test level players who've actually beaten the Trinations test teams.

by gowales Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:37 pm

Northampton and Leicester's scrum would also destroy anything from the Super 15. Munster would also give most of the super 15 games a hard time especially at home.

by Guest Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:22 pm

viewtothegym wrote:The sooner fans start accepting the superiority of the SH and demanding that the NH follows suit the more likely we will catch up.

Resistance is futile. Prepare to be assimilated! Rolling Eyes

by Scot Abroad Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:35 pm

Just because a team plays in the superXV, it doesn't automatically make them amazing. Rebels and Lions were terrible last season. Rebels had a lovely points difference of -289. I think the top HC teams would give many of the superXV teams a hard time.

by **Biltong** Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:01 pm

These comparisons are always a never ending argument about the same thing.

Who's better.

In a one off match anyone can win, the worst Super 15 side last year the Lions beat the Blues away from home

In 2010 the second worst team the Highlanders beat the Waratahs.

If the worst teams in the competition can beat the top team in a one off match then the top teams in the Heineken cup can as well.

Besides that even if a one off match is arranged by the two winners of the two competitions you can't base who is best on one result.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:34 am

Which league employs Danny Cipriani?

Whos the fool now?

by geoff998rugby Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:12 am

SafeAsMilk wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:The sooner fans start accepting the superiority of the SH and demanding that the NH follows suit the more likely we will catch up.
Resistance is futile. Prepare to be assimilated!

Alternatively blinkered diatribes are best ignored. Rolling Eyes

No one has said the SH is not superior. Headscratch

I would have thought only 2 from 8 is acceptance of that - maybe logic isn't viewtothegym's strong suit laughing

by Geordie Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:43 am

Kiwireddevil wrote:
geoff998rugby wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:The top half of the super 15 table would walk the Heiniken cup, i ou don't think so your in denial

Don't agree if there was a club competion between the best in the Heinken and the best in the Super 15 whilst the SH would clearly dominate I am convinced Leinster would make the top 4 and Toulouse the top 8.
I agree. I don't think Leinster would win it, but they'd make for a tough semi-final.

Based on games I've seen over the last 12 months I'd score the global provinces as
1) Queensland Reds (especially on a dry track)
2) Crusaders
3) Leinster
4) Sharks
5) Bulls
6) Toulouse
7) Blues
8) Waratahs

I stopped taking this seriously when the Newcastle Falcons were ommited.... Rolling Eyes

by Comfort Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:17 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Kiwireddevil wrote:
geoff998rugby wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:The top half of the super 15 table would walk the Heiniken cup, i ou don't think so your in denial

Don't agree if there was a club competion between the best in the Heinken and the best in the Super 15 whilst the SH would clearly dominate I am convinced Leinster would make the top 4 and Toulouse the top 8.
I agree. I don't think Leinster would win it, but they'd make for a tough semi-final.

Based on games I've seen over the last 12 months I'd score the global provinces as
1) Queensland Reds (especially on a dry track)
2) Crusaders
3) Leinster
4) Sharks
5) Bulls
6) Toulouse
7) Blues
8) Waratahs

I stopped taking this seriously when the Newcastle Falcons were ommited....

I'm going to stop taking it seriously if those Blues aren't Cardiff Blues. Open your eyes Northern Hemisphere dam fools 3559488474

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:33 am

Comfort wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
Kiwireddevil wrote:
geoff998rugby wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:The top half of the super 15 table would walk the Heiniken cup, i ou don't think so your in denial

Don't agree if there was a club competion between the best in the Heinken and the best in the Super 15 whilst the SH would clearly dominate I am convinced Leinster would make the top 4 and Toulouse the top 8.
I agree. I don't think Leinster would win it, but they'd make for a tough semi-final.

Based on games I've seen over the last 12 months I'd score the global provinces as
1) Queensland Reds (especially on a dry track)
2) Crusaders
3) Leinster
4) Sharks
5) Bulls
6) Toulouse
7) Blues
8) Waratahs

I stopped taking this seriously when the Newcastle Falcons were ommited....

I'm going to stop taking it seriously if those Blues aren't Cardiff Blues.

Now now, my "serious" list would have started with the Marlborough Red Devils Wink

by nganboy Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:13 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Which league employs Danny Cipriani?

Whos the fool now?

The Australian's ha ha ha

by GLove39 Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:39 am

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:So whats Scotlands excuse for being so cinsitently rubbish?
Their players dont have to worry about the knockout rounds of the HC, the league playoffs, a fourth AI, or the Anglo Welsh.

They must get weeks of sitting around eating porridge and watching caber tossing, but can barely compete with Argentina let alone Sanzaria.

in fairness to Scotland in the last few seasons they've done something Wales had failed to do, ie claim some Tri Nations scalps. Australia 2009 & South Africa 2010... Whistle

by GLove39 Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:41 am

SecretFly wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:The top half of the super 15 table would walk the Heiniken cup, i ou don't think so your in denial

The best of the SH players cruised through those games. Don't be so fatalistic. Super 15 defences are practically non-existent - it's designed for wow, and all sides buy into the deal. You really think Heineken Cup giants would relinquish their much more brutal and effective defensive games so easily?

so what about the game of the Heineken cup so far? Edinburgh 48 - 47 Racing Metro. An out and out try fest!

by gowales Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:50 am

GLove39 wrote:
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:So whats Scotlands excuse for being so cinsitently rubbish?
Their players dont have to worry about the knockout rounds of the HC, the league playoffs, a fourth AI, or the Anglo Welsh.

They must get weeks of sitting around eating porridge and watching caber tossing, but can barely compete with Argentina let alone Sanzaria.

in fairness to Scotland in the last few seasons they've done something Wales had failed to do, ie claim some Tri Nations scalps. Australia 2009 & South Africa 2010...

This is very true, some of my fellow country men on this forum need to keep their mouths shut until we do.
Overconfidence always kills welsh rugby, were better when were underdogs.

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