2011 Year end 606V2 P4P Top 15 (please submit VOTES!)

It's time for the year-end 606V2 POUND FOR POUND Top 15 rankings.

Rules:
-Only 1 post per 606 member.
-Only active fighters allowed (must of fought in the last 12 months unless officially retired eg David Haye)
-Outlandish listing’s will be DQ.

Principles:
Your Top 15 should be based as at the current point in time.

Point Scoring System:
Quite simple, #1 scores 15 points, #2 scores 14 points etc… I will tally up the totals by the deadline date and will present the results (using my Excel wizardry).

NOTE: PLEASE TRY AND USE FULL NAMES & LIST NAMES!

For the record, the previous Top 15 606v2 P4P rankings as at 11th November 2011 was:

1 Floyd Mayweather Jr (5)
2 Manny Pacquiao (1)
3 Nonito Donaire (3)
4 Sergio Martinez (2)
5 Juan Manuel Marquez (4)
6 Yuriorkis Gamboa (7)
7 Wladimir Klistchko (6)
8 Pongsaklek Wongjongkam (9)
9 Andre Ward (12)
10 Carl Froch (10)
11 Giovanni Segura (14)
12 Amir Khan (11)
13 Bernard Hopkins (8)
14 Timothy Bradley (13)
15 Vitali Klitschko (16)


16 Toshiaki Nishioka (17)
17 Robert Guerrero (19)
18 Lucian Bute (T23)
19 Kell Brook (New)
T20 Erik Morales (New)
T20 Humberto Soto (New)
T20 Brendon Rios (T23)
T23 Miguel Cotto (15)
T23 Lucas Matthyse (New)
25 Kazuto Ioka (New)

Legend: (previous ranking – 27th July 2011)

I expect some changes given some recent results.

1. Pacquiao
2. Mayweather
3. Donaire
4. Marquez
5. Martnezi
6. W.Klitschko
7. Ward
8. Bradley
9. Gamboa
10. V.Klitschko
11. Wongjongkam
12. Nishioka
13. Cotto
14. Khan
15. Froch

1. Mayweather
2. Pacquiao
3. Martinez
4. Marquez
5. Ward
6. Cotto
7. W. Klitschko
8. V. Klitschko
9. Hopkins
10. Wongjongkam
11. Donaire
12. Gamboa
13. Froch
14. Bradley
15. Rios

1) Mayweather
2) Pacquaio
3) Donaire
4) Ward
5) Martinez
6) Gamboa
7) Cotto
8) Marquez
9)Hopkins
10) W Klitchsko
11) Bradley
12) Alvarez
13) V Klitschko
14) Rios
15) Peterson

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Nonito Donaire (I explained why last time)
3. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Andre Ward
6. Sergio Martinez
7. Yuriorkis Gamboa
8. Timothy Bradley
9. Bernard Hopkins
10. Miguel Cotto
11. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
12. Carl Froch
13. Lamont Peterson
14. Wladimir Klistchko
15. Robert Guerrero

1. Floyd
2. Donaire
3. Marquez
4. Pac
5. Ward
6. Marty
7. Gamboa
8. Wlad
9. Cotto
10. Wonjo
11. Rios
12. Khan
13. Guererro
14. Peterson
15. Bradley

1. mayweather
2. marquez
3. pacquaio
4. hopkins
5. wlad
6. martinez
7. vitali
8. donaire
9. ward
10. gamboa
11. bradley
12. peterson
13. morales
14. wongjongkam
15. froch

No Ward, Az?

1. Nonito Donaire
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Andre Ward
6. Yuriorkis Gamboa
7. Sergio Martinez
8. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
9. Timothy Bradley
10. Bernard Hopkins
11. Toshaki Nishioka
12. Wladimir Klitschko
13. Miguel Cotto
14. Abner Mares
15. Carl Froch

I like the look of Roman Gonzalez but I can't include him yet as I'm not sure how good some of his opposition has been, he has some real power though which is quite rare in the lower weights. Kameda is knocking on the door of the top 15 as well, he looks very good. I think that when Rigondeaux gets his behind in gear he will find a place in the top 15 next year. Ioka is one to watch as well at minimumweight, he could be something very special.

10-15 could change around on a different day there isn't much between them. I'm sure I have probably missed someone as well who should probably be in there.

1.) Floyd Mayweather
2.) Manny Pacquiao
3.) Nonito Donaire
4.) Juan Manuel Marquez
5.) Andre Ward
6.) Sergio Martinez
7.) Wladamir Klitschko
8.) Tim Bradley
9.) Yuriorkis Gamboa
10.) Nishioka
11.) Wonjongkam
12.) Miguel Cotto
13.) Brandon Rios
14.) Saul Alvarez
15.) Vitali Klitschko

1) Coxy0001
2-15) Santas little helpers

1.) Manny Pacquiao
2.) Floyd Mayweather Jr
3.) Sergio Martinez
4.) Nonito Donaire
5.) Juan Manuel Marquez
6.) Wladimir Klitschko
7.) Andre Ward
8.) Yuriorkis Gamboa
9.) Wonjongkam
10.) Nishioka
11.) Tim Bradley
12.) Amir Khan
13.) Brandon Rios
14.) Vitali Klitschko
15.) Saul Alvarez

John Bloody Wayne wrote:No Ward, Az?

My bad. Editted to put him at No 5.

A seperate question. Had the judges scored the fight correctly and had JMM winning, would people still have Pac at 1 or 2?

1) Floyd Mayweather
2) Juan Manuel marquez
3) Sergio Martinez
4) Manny Pacquiao
5) Wladimir Klitschko
6) Nonito Donaire
7) Andre Ward
8) Bernard Hopkins
9) Vitali Klitschko
10) Gamboa
11) Wonjongkam
12) Miguel Cotto
13) Timothy Bradley
14) Saul Alvarez
15) Lamont Peterson

1 Floyd Mayweather Jr
2 Manny Pacquiao
3 Sergio Martinez
4 Nonito Donaire
5 Juan Manuel Marquez
6 Andre Ward
7 Yuriorkis Gamboa
8 Wladimir Klitschko
9 Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
10 Toshiaki Nishioka
11 Robert Guerrero
12 Timothy Bradley
13 Brandon Rios
14 Lamont Peterson
15 Amir Khan

1) Mayweather
2) Pacquiao
3) Marquez
4) Donaire
5) Ward
6) Martinez
7) W. Klitschko
8) Gamboa
9) Wonjongkam
10) Cotto
11) Bradley
12) Nishioka
13) Guerrero
14) V. Klitschko
15) Hopkins

Cheers ATG, have a very Merry Christmas mate!

1. Mayweather
2. Pacquiao
3. Marquez
4. Donaire
5. Martinez
6. Ward
7. Hopkins
8. W.Klitschko
9. V.Klitschko
10. Wongjongkam
11. Bradley
12. Cotto
13. Gamboa
14. Froch
15. Khan

1. Mayweather
2. Marquez
3. Pacquaio
4. Donaire
5. Martinez
6. Ward
7. Gamboa
8. W.Klitschko
9. Wongjongkam
10. Nishioka
11. Bradley
12. Broner
13. Alvarez
14. V Klitschko
15. Cotto

1.) Manny Pacquiao
2.) Floyd Mayweather Jr
3.) Sergio Martinez
4.) Nonito Donaire
5.) Andre Ward
6.) Wladimir Klitschko
7.) Juan Manuel Marquez
8.) Yuriorkis Gamboa
9.) Wonjongkam
10.) Nishioka
11.) Broner
12.) Alvarez
13.) VKlit
14.) Cotto
15.) Bradley

azania wrote:

John Bloody Wayne wrote:No Ward, Az?

My bad. Editted to put him at No 5.

A seperate question. Had the judges scored the fight correctly and had JMM winning, would people still have Pac at 1 or 2?

I know I'm in the minority but I had it to Pacman by a point. Had it gone the other way I'd have Pac at around 4 behind Mayweather Marquez and Donaire.

I think people might be wrong to put Marquez above Manny even if he did get the win. I think it is very much a styles make fight situation, Marquez has a style that is all wrong for Manny and so gives him lots of problems. I still think Manny would do much better against the other guys around the right weight than Marquez would so I would still have Manny above him, the same way I'd have Khan above Peterson still.

1. Mayweather Jr
2. Pacquiao
3. Sergio Martinez
4. JMM
5. Wladimir Klitschko
6. Vitali Klitschko
7. Donaire
8. Ward
9. Gamboa
10. Wonjongkam
11. Nishioka
12. Alvarez
13. Broner
14. Cotto
15. Bradley.

1. Floyd Mayweather Jr
2. Juan Manuel Marquez
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Nonito Donaire
5. Sergio Martinez
6. Yuriokis Gamboa
7. Wladimir Klitschko
8. Andre Ward
9. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
10. Miguel Cotto
11. Abner Mares
12. Humberto Soto
13. Carl Froch
14. Vitali Klitschko
15. Toshiaki Nishioka

1. Mayweather
2. Marquez
3. Pacquiao
4. Martinez
5. Donaire
6. Hopkins
7. Gamboa
8. Wonjongkam
9. Nishioka
10. Ward
11. Mares
12. Alvarez
13. Rios
14. Cotto
15. Guerrero

Can't really overlook the way in which Marquez dominated Pacquiao yet again so setting aside the official disgraceful decision, Juan Manuel gets the kudos he should have got from the judges.

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Floyd Mayweather
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Sergio Martinez
5. Nonito Donaire
6. Wladimir Klitschko
7. Yuriorkis Gamboa
8. Wonjongkam
9. Nishioka
10. Andre Ward
11. Vitali Klitschko
12. Cotto
13. Bradley
14. Hopkins
15. Alvarez.

Mayweather
Marquez
Pacquiao
Martinez
Donaire
W. Klitschko
Hopkins
Ward
Wonjongkam
Khan
Bradley
Gamboa
Cotto
Froch
Bute

1.) Manny Pacqiaou
2.) Floyd Mayweather Jr.
3.) Juan Manuel Marquez
4.) Nonito Donaire
5.) Sergio Martinez
6.) Andre Ward
7.) Wladimir Klitschko
8.) Pongsaklek Wongjongkam (However the hell it's spelt)
9.) Miguel Cotto
10.) Yuriorkis Gamboa
11.) Giovanni Segura
12.) Toshiaka Nishioka
13.) Timothy Bradley
14.) Vitali Klitschko
15.) Amir Khan

From number 7 onwards it really is horses for courses in my opinion with not all that much seperating them.

Alex, just wondering how you rate Segura at 11 after he was just beaten by Brian Viloria, I'm not slagging off your list and Im sure others would question some of my choices.

I ask with genuine interest.

Yeah it dropped him outside of my top ten.

However I look at it like this his win this year over Ivan Calderon was far better than what most achieved this year by a fair bit, I've never rated Nishioka that highly as others do and am waiting to see how good he truly is if he does take on Donaire next year.

Timothy Bradley I'm just not sold on at all yet. For me he beat a bit of a faded Witter in my opinion and a bit of a poor Alexander and almost taken out by just an average contender in Holt.

Vitali Klitschko I can't really fault but it's just with the heavyweights being so poor he hasn't had any great wins really.

Khans loss to Peterson catapulted him down also.

Like I said though from 7 - 15 I could rearrange them any which way, I think that Segura still deserves to be in there above the lieks of Khan Bradley and whatnot purely from his win over Calderon but he is getting a bit of a charity vote in truth and a fair bit of the benefit of the doubt from me that to be fair I wouldn't blame if others didn't.

Fair enough arguement, cheers Alex, I do agree that his wins over Calderon are probably better than most others wins, to be fair probably comes in around 20 for me.

Good wins over Calderon or not, there are many many fighters who haven't lost to someone as well limited as Viloria, think that loss more than wipes out the two Calderon wins at the moment.

I think he had a really bad night against Viloria and switched off a little something he did earlier in his career but came back stronger (Forget who it was against) He rematched him and knocked him out though. Think he will do the same with this one.

I still can't overlook the win over Calderon and just see Viloria as a blip.

Can't you use that excuse for any loss though? Always felt Segura is an over rated banger myself who benefitted from having a fairly immobile Calderon to beat.

Well, sort of yeah, but like I said I know I'm beign a bit of a charity case with him and still singing his praises.

Could be right though with Segura/Calderon could have sort of had that Forrest/Mosley effect where he was just sort of made for him.

1. Mayweather
2. Marquez (lets be honest he beat Pacquiao)
3. Pacquioa
4. Donaire
5. Ward
6. Wlad
7. Gamboa
8. Brook
9. Bradley
10. Alvarez
11. Cotto
12. Broner
13. Segura
14. Guerrero
15. Rios

No Martinez Waingro?
Kell Brook at no. 8?
Are you mental?

Waingro wrote:1. Mayweather
2. Marquez (lets be honest he beat Pacquiao)
3. Pacquioa
4. Donaire
5. Ward
6. Wlad
7. Gamboa
8. Brook
9. Bradley
10. Alvarez
11. Cotto
12. Broner
13. Segura
14. Guerrero
15. Rios

Mate, I appreciate your post and I don't want this process to dissolve into mayhem- but could you explain the reasoning behind Kel Brook at P8 (albeit I do think he has the 'potential' to be break the top 20, but on most counts there wouldn't be many if any experts placing him in their top 10).

All, I'll leave this thread open for a bit, could do with a few more postings. It doesn't work unless we have a large sample.

Thanks & Merry Xmas

ATG

All Time Great wrote:Mate, I appreciate your post and I don't want this process to dissolve into mayhem- but could you explain the reasoning behind Kel Brook at P8 (albeit I do think he has the 'potential' to be break the top 20, but on most counts there wouldn't be many if any experts placing him in their top 10).

...reasoning...

No Khan 'gro? He must have annoyed you post-Peterson...

In reference to Alex's reasoning behind Segura. Alot of people have included Khan and Im guessing they are probably using the exact same reason.... so in my opinion its a perfectly legit reason.

Waingro I actually agree with most of your list infact pretty similar to my own, so for that reason I will just presume you typed your list on your phone and your predictive text inexplicably mistook and attempt at writing Martinez for Brook

Segura's loss was much more convincing than Khan's and against a lesser opponent. But I can see why he may stay in some people's top 15's..

Carl Froch has seemingly disappeared from most peoples top 15s. Pacquiao is also struggling- is his P2 under threat?

Brook is absolute quality most people dont realize how good he is. Imo he is better than Froch and Khan him and Haye are the best fighters we have but Haye could be retired so I did not count him. If Haye is retired then I reckon Brook is the best fighter in Britain the guy is quality. Tbh I forgot about Martinez he should be in there at number 6 probably. Khan is overrated yes he got robbed by Peterson but to be honest he should have won that fight alot easier or by knockout to make sure people were saying this guy could beat Mayweather shows how overrated he was if he fights Brook or Bradley he will lose.

Thanks for clearing that up, then.

1: Mayweather
2: Pacquiao
3: Donaire
4: Ward
5: Martinez
6: Marquez
7: W Klitschko
8: Cotto
9: V Klitschko
10: Gamboa
11: Rios
12: Bradley
13: Guerrero
14: Khan
15: Alvarez

Waingro wrote:1. Mayweather
2. Marquez (lets be honest he beat Pacquiao)
3. Pacquioa
4. Donaire
5. Ward
6. Wlad
7. Gamboa
8. Brook
9. Bradley
10. Alvarez
11. Cotto
12. Broner
13. Segura
14. Guerrero
15. Rios

Rules:
-Only 1 post per 606 member.
-Only active fighters allowed (must of fought in the last 12 months unless officially retired eg David Haye)
-Outlandish listing’s will be DQ.

1. Mayweather
2. Pacquiao
3. Donaire
4. Marquez
5. Ward
6. Wlad
7. Martinez
8. Bradley
9. Gamboa
10. Vitali
11. Cotto
12. Wonjongkam
13. Alvarez
14. Hopkins
15. Guerrero

I can see the argument for having Marquez above Pacquiao but still think Pacquiao overall is the better fighter and cant see Marquez emulating the success Pacquiao had against that level of opposition over the last few years.

1. mayweather jr
2. marquez
3. donaire
4. pacquiao
5. martinez
6. w klitschko
7. ward
8. cotto
9. hopkins
10. v klitschko
11. nishioka
12. gamboa
13. wonjongkam
14. bute
15. bradley

manos de piedra wrote:1. Mayweather
2. Pacquiao
3. Donaire
4. Marquez
5. Ward
6. Wlad
7. Martinez
8. Bradley
9. Gamboa
10. Vitali
11. Cotto
12. Wonjongkam
13. Alvarez
14. Hopkins
15. Guerrero

I can see the argument for having Marquez above Pacquiao but still think Pacquiao overall is the better fighter and cant see Marquez emulating the success Pacquiao had against that level of opposition over the last few years.

I can. He is one of the best counter punchers of our era. Pacquiao last 5 opponents have been:

De La Hoya - Weight drained, stupid fight, really was never going to be competative
Ricky Hatton - Mentally scarred and physically after loss to Mayweather and out of ring antics (Looked poor against Lazcano)
Miguel Cotto - Made to cut weight for his own title (joke)
Joshua Clottey - Joke
Shane Mosley - Lost to mayweather, drew with Mora and got a fight with the cash cow? How?
Margarito - Had hardly fought, lost his license then gets it back again for a WBC title fight at 154lbs at a catchweight? What?

Marquez would have done just as good. Maybe not in the explosive way that Pacman did, but would be very methodical and counter punching.

We ALL saw the Marquez fight, he was pretty written off but performed above all expectations. The fans booed out the arena, the judges in the UK were appalled, Khan had Marquez winning, Roach did too, and after the bell went Pacquiao trummbled back to his corner.

But still.........................

Is that meant to sound impartial d?


You're calling world class fighters in Cotto and Clottey "jokes." Cotto's among the best welterweights of recent years and Clottey lost a disputed split to him, along with wins over guys like Judah.

Do you really think Marquez would've sawn through Cotto like that? Had Clottey totally unwilling to return fire and happy to last the distance? No way in my opinion.

d260005p wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:1. Mayweather
2. Pacquiao
3. Donaire
4. Marquez
5. Ward
6. Wlad
7. Martinez
8. Bradley
9. Gamboa
10. Vitali
11. Cotto
12. Wonjongkam
13. Alvarez
14. Hopkins
15. Guerrero

I can see the argument for having Marquez above Pacquiao but still think Pacquiao overall is the better fighter and cant see Marquez emulating the success Pacquiao had against that level of opposition over the last few years.

I can. He is one of the best counter punchers of our era. Pacquiao last 5 opponents have been:

De La Hoya - Weight drained, stupid fight, really was never going to be competative
Ricky Hatton - Mentally scarred and physically after loss to Mayweather and out of ring antics (Looked poor against Lazcano)
Miguel Cotto - Made to cut weight for his own title (joke)
Joshua Clottey - Joke
Shane Mosley - Lost to mayweather, drew with Mora and got a fight with the cash cow? How?
Margarito - Had hardly fought, lost his license then gets it back again for a WBC title fight at 154lbs at a catchweight? What?

Marquez would have done just as good. Maybe not in the explosive way that Pacman did, but would be very methodical and counter punching.

We ALL saw the Marquez fight, he was pretty written off but performed above all expectations. The fans booed out the arena, the judges in the UK were appalled, Khan had Marquez winning, Roach did too, and after the bell went Pacquiao trummbled back to his corner.

But still.........................

A wonderfully balanced summation of events. If Marquez was capable of all this why didnt he move up the weights sooner? I might tip him to beat De la Hoya and Hatton off that list. Id have him underdog against Cotto and Margarito. I dont see him emerging from that list of fights unbeaten or as comprehensive as Pacquiao. Pacquiao beat those guys because he is a class fighter, not because they were rubbish.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Is that meant to sound impartial d?


You're calling world class fighters in Cotto and Clottey "jokes." Cotto's among the best welterweights of recent years and Clottey lost a disputed split to him, along with wins over guys like Judah.

Do you really think Marquez would've sawn through Cotto like that? Had Clottey totally unwilling to return fire and happy to last the distance? No way in my opinion.

This is my view also, fighters like Clottey are viewed upon as a jok in comparison to Manny Pacquaio, yet Cotto barely scraped past him at his "incredible" fully fledged 147 self, for me the fight wasn't a joke, obviously not a fight that will be discussed in his ATG status.

I look at it like this, and I don't mean no offence to some of the old timers, but let's say 60 or 70 years ago a guy came from Flyweight up all the way to welterweight and blew away 2 of the top welterweights on the planet at the time would that be viewed upon as a joke?