The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

+4
funnyExiledScot
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)
Glas a du
JRW11Evea
8 posters

Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by JRW11Evea Wed 18 Jan 2012, 11:54 pm

As a ‘Sports Fan’ from the North-East, I’ve seen my fair share of misery. In May 2009 Newcastle United were relegated into the second tier of the English football pyramid, ending their 16 year stay in arguably the world’s greatest domestic football league. Their relegation was well publicised, and thankfully the year in the championship wasn’t damning, even turning out to be a blessing in disguise, as The Magpies cleared out the dead wood, and a combination of class and character saw Newcastle take the championship by storm. Two and a half years later, Newcastle sit in 7th place of the Premier League, on course to make a return European football for the first time since their UEFA Cup campaign of 2007 five years ago, which ended in defeat to AZ Alkmaar, the Dutch club going through on away goals.

However not all clubs respond so well to sports setbacks, and it would be unfair not to give focus to clubs whose struggle is not as well publicised, with the giants on Tyneside already receiving a large share of the region’s media attention, possibly linked with why they bounced back so well.

In Rugby Union, Newcastle Falcons currently lie at the bottom of the Aviva Premiership 9 points adrift of safety, with even the most ardent of Falcons fans writing their team off as relegation fodder, and, as West Hartlepool RFC showed us in 1999, a club can easily fall through the divisions, and into the rugby wilderness, with the once Courage and Allied Dunbar Premiership side now playing in National League 3 North. Newcastle Falcons have been facing an uphill struggle for years, losing talented youngsters, Matthew Tait and Toby Flood, as well as club stalwarts, Carl Hayman, Jamie Noon, Tom May, and Jonny Wilkinson. The club, in these players, undoubtedly lost irreplaceable class. You would be hard pressed to find someone who isn’t familiar with the RWC heroics of Jonny Wilkinson in 2003. However, it was the attitude and character of these players, as much as their ability that kept Falcons from the drop.

Ask anyone what they’ll remember about ‘Wilko’ and they’ll probably tell you about a certain dramatic World Cup winning drop goal with his weaker foot and only seconds left on the clock or maybe some will say helping Newcastle win the 97-98 Premiership title or being one of the world’s all-time top point scorers. For me, it was something a little different. Jonny proved his dedication to the club, the area and having a strong relation with the fans, when he took the time to speak to a somewhat star struck 16 year old about his own rugby ‘career’ and how he was doing with his school work at a book signing in Hexham. I’ll always remember how interested Jonny seemed in what I had to say, and whilst he was clearly busy, he was happy to give me advice, and talk to me like he was just a normal person. It was his ability to connect with the fans that made him a key player in the Falcons side on and off the field. He and players like Tom May, my all-time favourite player who could play anywhere from 9 to 15, really made fans feel like they were cheering on friends, and the Falcons were a true representation of dedication. The Falcons may not have the financial backing to take them to the pinnacle of club rugby, but with a few more characters like May, Wilkinson and Noon to see them through their darkest hour, they will swiftly return to the Aviva Premiership.

No one can doubt the quality of support from the regulars of the region’s smaller clubs but perhaps the popularity of football and the City’s premier sports team have had an adverse effect on the quantity of neutrals, who turn up for entertainment.

It is the current state of Ice Hockey in Britain that led to Newcastle Vipers fading into the abyss. For me the writing was on the wall, when the club, playing in the top flight of British Ice Hockey, could no longer financially justify playing at the Metro Radio Arena, and moved to Whitley Bay Ice Rink. Ice Hockey does not have the same kind of cult status as it does on the other side of the pond, and whilst now defunct side Durham Wasps had a fantastic support and the atmosphere at Durham Ice Rink was always electric, Ice Hockey struggles to compete with a number of other more popular sports, for a contingent of neutrals, taking in the sport purely for the spectacle of athletes performing at the top of their game.

To a lesser extent the same can be said for rugby. The UK is very much a football country, and it’s unlikely that with the amount of television exposure and history that football clubs have, it will be difficult for any sport that shares a city with one of the top football clubs, to compete for neutral viewers. It is up to the regulars to continue their fantastic support, whether it is roaring the Falcons on through a tricky championship campaign, or packing out one of the regions ice rinks, should the Wasps or Vipers make a return.

Finally, it’s time to take a look at a club on the brink of liquidation. They compete in the world’s most popular sport, at a 25,000 capacity stadium and unlike the Falcons and Vipers, they are the only club in town, and are very much the town’s club. For those of you whose finger isn’t on the non-league pulse, I am referring to Darlington F.C. who has just entered administration for the third time, the last resulting in the Quakers being exiled from the football league. Like NUFC, Falcons and Vipers, the club has outstanding support from its regulars, unlike the Tyneside clubs; it has no other clubs to compete with.

Darlington’s decline is the result of over ambition. Much like the Greek myth of Icarus, who flew too close to the sun, George Reynolds invested a large amount of money in Darlington in order to reach the dizzy heights of the premier league, with a £20m stadium being built as a statement of ambition. However, Darlington’s average attendance is 1885. Reynolds clearly hadn’t investigated how much return he would make on his investment, and whether the Quakers had the fan base and regular income to make it as a premier league club. He wasn’t satisfied with the lack of instant results, and left the club in 2004, Darlington have been struggling to keep on top of the running costs of the ‘Reynolds Arena’ ever since, leaving the club in a very vulnerable state, with the club’s fans facing liquidation. No fans want to be told that their club is too ambitious, and that there is a limit to what they can achieve in set period of time, but Darlington struggled to match Reynolds ambitions.

One thing that binds all these clubs together is the outstanding dedication, through thick and thin, of the fans, who are so emotionally invested in the respective clubs. I was devastated to see Vipers cease to exist, and will be more so if the same happens to Darlington F.C. I pray that something will save Darlington F.C. but if their 128 years history is to come to an end, then the club will always be remembered for the passion of the fans, who stood tall when they looked the end of their club in the eye. The Quakers may not have had the quantity of fans to reach the Premier League, but they undoubtedly have the quality.


JRW11Evea

Posts : 102
Join date : 2011-12-29

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by Glas a du Thu 19 Jan 2012, 8:15 am

Fantastic piece. I have no affinity for the Falcons, but recognise your predicament. Whilst regions in Wales are a work in progress, your post shows the difficulty in plodding on with amateur league structures in the professional age. I would say that almost every time the relegated club is better than the promoted club. The relegated club's players who are Jeff standard go and play for other Jeff clubs meaning that despite promotion and delegation, it is largely the same players plying their trade in the Jeff from season to season. Crowds of paying faithful like you can paper over the financial cracks but the pay cap is knocking England's clubs' ability to challenge for European honours and that will get worse the longer France don't cap wages. I forsee a big and bloody shake up of English domestic Rugby within 5 years.
Glas a du
Glas a du

Posts : 15843
Join date : 2011-04-28
Age : 48
Location : Ammanford

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 19 Jan 2012, 9:41 am

Superb article JRW clap
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)

Posts : 10925
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : London, England

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 19 Jan 2012, 9:56 am

My take on the problems at Newcastle was that the road map set out by Hall and Andrew in the early days was flawed. The plan seemed to be to sign a crop of top stars, win a trophy and establish the team as a real player in Premiership rugby, get a strong youth set-up going and then bring through youngsters to replace the top talent, thus preserving the conveyor belt.

The problem is what next? The above plan seemed to work well, but when the investment dried up, young players started to question the ambition of the side. Whilst Wilkinson stayed players could be persuaded, but when he left the attitude appeared to be "last one to leave the building switch off the lights".

The team now has no core, which goes to the attitude problems highlighted by the OP. Every side has 3-4 players who you associate with being the core group of players for the team, leaders, every side except Newcastle.

I think the good news for Newcastle is that they'll be back. The youth system up there produces very talented players, and with a couple of shrewd signings, perhaps a couple of 30+ forwards, they should be able to negotiate the Championship. They need to identify a coach first and foremost, then they need to figure out who will stay and who will go.

I wish Newcastle all the best. As a Scot I've always had a soft spot for the northern teams, and will always remember that title winning Newcastle side featuring Graham, Weir, Walton, Armstrong and Tait. Great team.

funnyExiledScot

Posts : 17065
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 43
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by JRW11Evea Thu 19 Jan 2012, 2:12 pm

cheers for the feedback guys glad you liked it/found it interesting Very Happy

JRW11Evea

Posts : 102
Join date : 2011-12-29

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by JRW11Evea Thu 19 Jan 2012, 2:20 pm

also, just a quick question what does OP mean, im still relatively new :P ahah

JRW11Evea

Posts : 102
Join date : 2011-12-29

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by HongKongCherry Thu 19 Jan 2012, 2:24 pm

Great article and for the sake of English rugby it is vital that Newcastle remain a top side. It's going to be tough to stay up, but have a year in the Championship, get rid of the journeymen and build a team round grizzled players and the youth you're known for - good luck
HongKongCherry
HongKongCherry

Posts : 3297
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Glawster

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 19 Jan 2012, 2:26 pm

JRW11Evea wrote:also, just a quick question what does OP mean, im still relatively new :P ahah

"Original Post" or sometimes "Original Poster", depending on context. So either you, or your article at the top of the thread in this case Smile
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)

Posts : 10925
Join date : 2011-01-26
Location : London, England

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by JRW11Evea Thu 19 Jan 2012, 2:31 pm

cool Very Happy thanks ill be back soon with something else, when i think of a good idea :p

JRW11Evea

Posts : 102
Join date : 2011-12-29

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by Geordie Thu 19 Jan 2012, 2:47 pm

Newcastle have always been able to bring in top class players - from Inga, Pat Lam, Matt Burke and Hayman to Murray and Hudson.

They also have a top calibre academy that consistantly produces quality Premiership level players....many above that.

So how do we find ourselves lately in a position that the squad is full of journeymen foreigners....and all our talented kids are flooding the other clubs in the league - Like Brookes and Youngs at Leicester, Alex gray at Irish etc etc.

We need to change our policy back to the former...use our academy (dont rely on only that) with some top notch British talent (we have a very strong affinity with top Scottish players) then drop in a couple of word class foreigners if required....

Its very easy Wink

(NB Maybe a drop for a season might refresh the club like it did for United)

Geordie

Posts : 28514
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by JRW11Evea Thu 19 Jan 2012, 2:58 pm

One of the posters on the football board highlighted wages as the key problem to all clubs struggles - just wondering (as i'm not too clued in the kind of wages demands rugby players make - i doubt they are as stringent) can Falcons compete with the wages other aviva prem teams may be offering, might we be losing youngsters to clubs who can offer them a higher pay package, or a better chance of being picked for england?

JRW11Evea

Posts : 102
Join date : 2011-12-29

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by Glas a du Thu 19 Jan 2012, 3:08 pm

Who's your rival? Every club has a derby that gets fans flooding in. Leeds? You don't play them. What competitions do you play in? Top foreign talent will only come to play in the HC, they aren't fussed on the Amlin. Glasgow and Edinburgh seem to be doing better and paying their top blokes more. This means that the supply line of Scottish internationals has been weakened. How did you lose Ritchie Gray to Sale of all people? With regionalisation in Wales and Ireland (as well as Scotland) there will be decent under 20 internationals not getting 1st team game time, get after them. Do well enough and you will draw the academy boys back.
Glas a du
Glas a du

Posts : 15843
Join date : 2011-04-28
Age : 48
Location : Ammanford

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by JRW11Evea Thu 19 Jan 2012, 3:17 pm

I agree that to succeed, a team needs a good rival, fans have bragging rights other their family/friends/work colleagues and become more invested in the club for the same reason, i think one of the issues with vipers and ice hockey was that you would be hard pressed to find another keen ice hockey fan in your area, let alone a rival who you can have banter with. To a lesser extent, the same can be said for rugby union, i knew plenty of people that played or were interested in England, very few who kept up to date on the falcons, one of the things that drew me to message boards and forums, for NUFC as well.

JRW11Evea

Posts : 102
Join date : 2011-12-29

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 19 Jan 2012, 3:22 pm

There was a time when the automatic choice for Scottish players was Newcastle, so previously you'd be looking to sweep up players like Gray, Barclay and Beattie.

Now France seems to be a pretty big lure plus the fact that other Premiership sides like Saracens, Gloucester and Sale have wised up to the available talent up north.

GeordieFalcon is right, the key is the academy next season plus a few grizzled veterans. Get that balance right and you'll bounce back in a similar vein to Northampton, who did a very decent job of rebuilding when they were in the Championship.

funnyExiledScot

Posts : 17065
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 43
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by BridgendBoyo Thu 19 Jan 2012, 3:30 pm

My hometown rugby team has managed to claw it's way back. In 2003 They won the last ever Welsh Professional league title. Then in 2004, they set up with pontypridd to form the Celtic Warriors region.

Short version is fans didnt like it, not many turned out to watch them, despite the team being quite successful. Then the financial backer pulled out, WRU saw it as achance to savee money, got rid of the team.

Bridgend, who have always supplied quality players, couldnt keep hold of theyre players and plummeted down the league. now with financial help, this is they're first season back at the top flight of welsh (semi pro) rugby, where we bellong lol

BridgendBoyo

Posts : 232
Join date : 2011-05-26
Age : 42
Location : Bridgend

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by Geordie Thu 19 Jan 2012, 3:30 pm

Glas a du wrote:Who's your rival? Every club has a derby that gets fans flooding in. Leeds? You don't play them. What competitions do you play in? Top foreign talent will only come to play in the HC, they aren't fussed on the Amlin. Glasgow and Edinburgh seem to be doing better and paying their top blokes more. This means that the supply line of Scottish internationals has been weakened. How did you lose Ritchie Gray to Sale of all people? With regionalisation in Wales and Ireland (as well as Scotland) there will be decent under 20 internationals not getting 1st team game time, get after them. Do well enough and you will draw the academy boys back.

Well we attracted the likes of Matt Burke, Ewan Murray, Carl Hayman etc WITHOUT HC rugby...so imagine if we were in the competition....

We didnt lose Ritchie Gray to Sale?...are you thinking of Alex Gray to London Irish?

PLayers lost over the last few seasons:

Flood, Brookes, Young, Parling, Tait, Clegg, Miller, May, Noon, Wilson, Dowson, Johnny Wilkinson, Visser, Sorensen....etc

Its quite an impressive list...or disastrous if your a falcon....

Geordie

Posts : 28514
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by Glas a du Thu 19 Jan 2012, 3:33 pm

No, I meant that Sale managed to sign him from Glasgow under your noses so to speak.
Glas a du
Glas a du

Posts : 15843
Join date : 2011-04-28
Age : 48
Location : Ammanford

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by Geordie Thu 19 Jan 2012, 3:39 pm

Ah i see....but in this case i dont think were after him anyway....

But your right we SHOULD be after those players...when we had the likes of Doddie Weir etc...

Hopefully them days will return....

Geordie

Posts : 28514
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by Glas a du Thu 19 Jan 2012, 3:40 pm

Weir was hugely under rated.
Glas a du
Glas a du

Posts : 15843
Join date : 2011-04-28
Age : 48
Location : Ammanford

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 19 Jan 2012, 3:43 pm

Weir would have been Martin Johnson's partner in 1997 instead of Jeremy Davidson had he not got injured on the tour. Weir was a splendid player and still is a wonderful character to have around the game.

I digress. That list of lost Falcons is staggering.

funnyExiledScot

Posts : 17065
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 43
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by Glas a du Thu 19 Jan 2012, 3:46 pm

got injured


For once that is more accurate. If I remember through an alcoholic haze (I was on a post Uni holiday in Lloret De Mar) he was injured by a kick to the side of his knee by a lesser provincial player in one of the 1st matches on tour. They didn't under rate him obviously!
Glas a du
Glas a du

Posts : 15843
Join date : 2011-04-28
Age : 48
Location : Ammanford

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by Geordie Thu 19 Jan 2012, 3:51 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Weir would have been Martin Johnson's partner in 1997 instead of Jeremy Davidson had he not got injured on the tour. Weir was a splendid player and still is a wonderful character to have around the game.

I digress. That list of lost Falcons is staggering.

It shows we have a hell of an academy FES....

The question is WHY is this drain happening?

Is it money?....is it lack of Ambition on the clubs behalf....is it that the Falcons are seen as a smaller club, thus natural progression is to move to one of the bigger boys....

If we kept hold of them...we could very much challenge for the title...playing in a lovely part of the world...

We have another batch of youngsters coming through....higly regarded...lets hope they change the trend and stay and we build again...

Geordie

Posts : 28514
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by TrailApe Thu 19 Jan 2012, 3:52 pm

Personally, I think if we get a good coaching set up that's well regarded by others then I think we could hang on to our young talent and attract a couple of Grade A players. One of the reasons our young uns are going is that they can see how other coaching/training regimes will improve their game.

Look at Micky Young - he was getting loads moree on the pitch with us than that he's getting with the Tigers - I bet he knew that would happen but was willing to take the hit as he thought their coaching set up was better and will improve him as a player, taking him to the next level and senior caps.

And any way, I've just had a good conversation with the neighbours Guinea Pig, and he tells me that the Falcons are not going down.

Now that not seem a very reliable source, but the state of mind I'm I'll take it as gospel.
TrailApe
TrailApe

Posts : 885
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Newcastle upon Tyne

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by Glas a du Thu 19 Jan 2012, 3:57 pm

Who though? Say Jake White. How are you going to pay his and the player's wages?
Glas a du
Glas a du

Posts : 15843
Join date : 2011-04-28
Age : 48
Location : Ammanford

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by Geordie Thu 19 Jan 2012, 4:05 pm

Hey Guinea Pigs are a valuable source of info with regards to Rugby! Listen to what he says Very Happy

I'd love to see Deano come in...available soon...did it with Quins...and despite the ban would still attract players..and is still a tremendous coach.

He could really use the resources at this club.

Geordie

Posts : 28514
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 19 Jan 2012, 4:08 pm

Richards would be a great appointment.

Dean Ryan could be another possible.

funnyExiledScot

Posts : 17065
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 43
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by Glas a du Thu 19 Jan 2012, 4:09 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Richards would be a great appointment.

Dean Ryan could be another possible.

Absolutely agree.
Glas a du
Glas a du

Posts : 15843
Join date : 2011-04-28
Age : 48
Location : Ammanford

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by Geordie Thu 19 Jan 2012, 4:16 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Richards would be a great appointment.

Dean Ryan could be another possible.

Well he's been here before.... Wink

Geordie

Posts : 28514
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline Empty Re: standing on the brink - what causes a clubs decline

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum