Celtic League sides in the Heieken Cup: Stats since 1999

The Celtic League/Magners/Rabo version

According to http://www.statbunker.com/rugby/btb/index.php?PL=competition&CompID=382&statType=448

HEC involvement in knock-out stages:

Ireland:
Year/QF teams(winners)/SF teams(winners)/Final teams(winners)
2000: 1(1) 1(1) 1(0)
2001: 1(1) 1(0)_
2002: 2(1) 1(1) 1(0)
2003: 2(2) 2(0)
2004: 1(1) 1(0)
2005: 1(0)
2006: 2(2) 2(1) 1(1)
2007: 2(0)
2008: 1(1) 1(1) 1(1)
2009: 2(2) 2(1) 1(1)
2010: 2(2) 2(0)
2011: 2(1) 1(1) 1(1)
2012: 3 ...

Italy:
Year/QF teams(winners)/SF teams(winners)/Final teams(winners)
2000: 0
2001: 0
2002: 0
2003: 0
2004: 0
2005: 0
2006: 0
2007: 0
2008: 0
2009: 0
2010: 0
2011: 0
2012: 0

Scotland:
Year/QF teams(winners)/SF teams(winners)/Final teams(winners)
2000: 0
2002: 0
2003: 0
2004: 0
2005: 1(0)
2006: 0
2007: 0
2008: 0
2009: 0
2010: 0
2011: 0
2012: 1 ...

Wales:
Year/QF teams(winners)/SF teams(winners)/Final teams(winners)
2000: 2(1) 1(0)
2001: 2(0)
2002: 1(1) 1(0)
2003: 1(0)
2004: 1(0)
2005: 0
2006: 0
2007: 1(1) 1(0)
2008: 0
2009: 2(1) 1(0)
2010: 1(0)
2011: 0
2012: 1 ...

What does this prove?

I don't know.

Objectively it shows that CL format suits the Irish.

Don't shoot the messenger.

It proves you have too much time on your hands...

No it just proves that irish teams have been better in the past ten years.

It only proves that the set up suits the Irish if you assume that the Prem set up doesn’t suit the English.

Of course the Irish teams could just be better, then the league format wouldn’t need to be taken into consideration…

Mickado wrote:It only proves that the set up suits the Irish if you assume that the Prem set up doesn’t suit the English.

Of course the Irish teams could just be better, then the league format wouldn’t need to be taken into consideration…

What?

That's a mindless contribution.

Of course the Irish teams are better the numbers show that.

I have carefully separated the English (and then French as they are comparable) Leagues' HEC Stats.

Because I felt that the Irish (and other Celtic-cum-Rabo) side were different, I just presented an entirely unskewed presentation of the facts on precisely the same base data.

Mickado...dont feed the goldfish...

DOD wrote:Mickado...dont feed the goldfish...

DOD.

Does that mean that goldfish dig into real facts?

NOTHING in this post is wumming. NOTHING except the subjective comment that the C/M/R League has benefited Ireland.

Although the jury is still out on the Italian benefit.

Portnoy wrote:

DOD wrote:Mickado...dont feed the goldfish...

DOD.

Does that mean that goldfish dig into real facts?

NOTHING in this post is wumming. NOTHING except the subjective comment that the C/M/R League has benefited Ireland.

Although the jury is still out on the Italian benefit.

what facts. all you did was show how differnet countries perform over the last decade.

What are these facts supposed to prove???

I think the President of Ireland is going to address the concerns of all in a speech to be broadcast before the first Six Nations game in Dublin (right after he takes his time on the red carpet to further annoy our 6N friends )

Anyway, I think he's going to apologise for Irish sides monopolising the HC quarters in such a crude display of giant-killing rugby. He'll say he can't promise anything but he'll have a chat with those horrid men in the IRFU and ask them to tone it down next year in the interests of good neighbourliness and harmony between the sexes (oh sorry that last bit was one of his other speeches)

The only point that he's making is that the CL format suits the Irish. This isn't a fact per se, it's an opinion or conclusion drawn from them having 2 teams on average in the knockout stages, compared to 3 for the French and 2.5 for the English teams.

So clearly the Premiership format suits the English and the Top 14 suits the French given they have a much better return on the number of teams their league provides in the knockout stages.

It's a fair point to make, but I'm not sure how relevant it is to this season's outcome for English clubs.

Perhaps an Anglo-Irish league is the answer. Cut 5 of the teams from the Premiership, add in 3 Irish provinces, close lid, add in a dash of Tabasco, shake and stir for a couple of seasons, and see what pours out.

Pot, you are taking the piddle, sir!

Dear oh me.

An accumulation of data describes a trend.

A trend proves nothing.

This is not an attack on Ireland, the Celtic nations, Franchises or indeed anything else.

It just completes a trilogy of articles about factual performances of National performances in the HEC since 1999.

And I have been careful to distinguish between objective facts and my
subjective comments.

That’s the only reason I responded Portnoy, it’s not objective fact.

You said that the CL format suits the Irish. Presumably you mean it suits us because we seem to do well in Europe?

But I’m saying that it’s not objective fact, I’m saying the objective fact is just that we’re better, nothing to do with the league. By the same token you could say that the Spanish league suits Barcelona, because they’re European champions. That’s subjective opinion, not objective fact.

Portnoy, for my part I know what you're doing...just quoting figures. And me, I'm just having fun with the thread. Not accusing you of anything

Pot Hale wrote:The only point that he's making is that the CL format suits the Irish. This isn't a fact per se, it's an opinion or conclusion drawn from them having 2 teams on average in the knockout stages, compared to 3 for the French and 2.5 for the English teams.

So clearly the Premiership format suits the English and the Top 14 suits the French given they have a much better return on the number of teams their league provides in the knockout stages.

It's a fair point to make, but I'm not sure how relevant it is to this season's outcome for English clubs.

Perhaps an Anglo-Irish league is the answer. Cut 5 of the teams from the Premiership, add in 3 Irish provinces, close lid, add in a dash of Tabasco, shake and stir for a couple of seasons, and see what pours out

Close. But again it misses the point.

Objective results and long term trends are set in stone.

I have been careful to separate English and Rabo data as they analogously compare oranges and apples.

The relative success within the Rabo is a Rabo fans' issue.

I withdraw myself on this Rabo debate - save defending my objective facts.

I hope it's a productive Rabo debate. PM me if you need clarification.

Ah I see you’re practicing the withdrawal method of safe 606…

Portnoy wrote:The relative success within the Rabo is a Rabo fans' issue.

I withdraw myself on this debate - save defending my objective facts.

I hope it's a productive Rabo debate. PM me if you need clarification.

Again your facts prove nothing but how country's representation has done over that last decade.

Your "FACTS" say nothing else.

Your conclusion from these facts is something else, but just because they are your conclusions does not make it correct, nor do mine for that matter.

Mickado wrote:Ah I see you’re practicing the withdrawal method of safe 606…

Too many funny men on this thread. Take the blasted thing seriously Mickado!

In fairness, I did. But I was accused of giving a “mindless reply”.