Armitage dropped from Saxons following arrest

by **LondonTiger** Mon 30 Jan 2012, 11:39 am

Just heard this on the 5Live news. Arrested for assault apparently. Man has major issues.

by Meflanker Mon 30 Jan 2012, 11:42 am

Unbelievable really....
http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/story/158505.html?addata=chromium

by geoff998rugby Mon 30 Jan 2012, 11:43 am

England need to get some respect back into their side - starting with forgetting about this bloke.

Consign him to the International dust cart

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 30 Jan 2012, 11:44 am

He didn't even seem interested in the Saxons game. Get rid of him, he sounds like a complete thug.

by beshocked Mon 30 Jan 2012, 11:47 am

It could only be Armitage....

Someone probably provoked him and he took the bait.

by gowales Mon 30 Jan 2012, 11:47 am

Looks like hes going to Toulon then.

by Bathite Mon 30 Jan 2012, 11:49 am

Why am I not surprised, the guys is a prize t wat. Arrogant, over rated and disrespectful, he is the epitomy of the very worst in english rugby right now and just the sort of player we need to shed and coincidentally, the type that Lancaster seems to hate.

See that Ashton has been in the press over the weekend talking about his poor reputation and how he wants to overcome it, starting with stopping the swan dive.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 30 Jan 2012, 11:49 am

gowales wrote:Looks like hes going to ~~Toulon~~ jail then.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 30 Jan 2012, 11:50 am

If only Gary Neville had spoken to him sooner .....

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 30 Jan 2012, 11:52 am

Glad to see nobody is making snap judgements about Delon Armitage based on little other than preconceived prejudice.

He has not been charged with anything and may not be. I am not condoning him being involved in an incident, but I think it's quite sad that people actually seem to happy that they have another stick with which to beat him.

I hope he does go to Toulon, and gets back to playing at his best, as on top form there are very few better fullbacks around.

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 30 Jan 2012, 11:53 am

Because he hasn't done anything like this before..

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 30 Jan 2012, 11:54 am

Do you mean in England there aren't any better full backs around? Or the world??

by beshocked Mon 30 Jan 2012, 11:57 am

Ozzy I agree. I don't think the incident is clear cut. I reckon someone provoked Armitage. You do have to admit he has a discipline issue though.

Good player but poor discipline and attitude in my opinion.He has a poor reputation. He needs to rebuild it.

Going to Toulon is not the answer though.

by gowales Mon 30 Jan 2012, 11:58 am

On form he is up there with Foden as the best fullback in England.
We could certainly use a player like him in Wales.

by munkian Mon 30 Jan 2012, 11:59 am

Ozzy3213 wrote:Glad to see nobody is making snap judgements about Delon Armitage based on little other than preconceived prejudice.

He has not been charged with anything and may not be. I am not condoning him being involved in an incident, but I think it's quite sad that people actually seem to happy that they have another stick with which to beat him.

I hope he does go to Toulon, and gets back to playing at his best, as on top form there are very few better fullbacks around.

When was the last time he was on form ? He's only ever in the rugby news for random acts of violence or stupidty - not for actually playing good rugby.

by maestegmafia Mon 30 Jan 2012, 12:00 pm

gowales wrote:On form he is up there with Foden as the best fullback in England.
We could certainly use a player like him in Wales.

GW

I think Wales are happy to fight their own battles...!

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 30 Jan 2012, 12:01 pm

Being provoked isn't an excuse. Was he provoked all the other times as well? He has a choice whether or not to act on it. He didn't even seem interested in the saxons match, I didn't even know he was playing. The guy seems like a thug and needs to sort himself out before England play him again. This isn't "snap judgements". That would be if this was allegedly the first time he has done something like this. Armitage has been guilty of this sort of crap plenty now.

by Mr Bounce Mon 30 Jan 2012, 12:02 pm

It's a shame - he's an electrifying player when on form. However he does appear to have a major short-circuit when it comes to attitude and discipline. I'd like to see him sort this out but it appears he's a bit of a Danny Grewcock on the pitch and a prize banana off it...

by Knackeredknees Mon 30 Jan 2012, 12:07 pm

Sorry I'm late at the stable lads, but it appears that all the high horses have been taken for a hack around moral high ground hill.
I know this may seem to be an out of date way, but how about waiting for all the facts before acting like monkeys in a zoo and throwing Poopie!

by Bathite Mon 30 Jan 2012, 12:08 pm

"Glad to see nobody is making snap judgements about Delon Armitage based on little other than preconceived prejudice.

He has not been charged with anything and may not be. I am not condoning him being involved in an incident, but I think it's quite sad that people actually seem to happy that they have another stick with which to beat him."

It's not a one off incident though is it? There's no smoke without fire is there? Name me a time when the RFU has suspended a player after an incident and then he has proven to be innocent and they have reinstated them? Even Tindall only got his terms reduced.

Even if proven innocent, I still stand by my comments about him. He has an awful attitude, seems to have been this way for 18 months now. Never been a fan of his and this latest report changes nothing.

Being a professional sportsman is so much more than playing a few good games in a row.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 30 Jan 2012, 12:09 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
gowales wrote:Looks like hes going to ~~Toulon~~ jail then.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 30 Jan 2012, 12:11 pm

Bathite wrote:Being a professional sportsman is so much more than playing a few good games in a row.

So ture,

Its also about learning to take unwarrented abuse on the internet and securing good personal sponsorship deals.

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 30 Jan 2012, 12:11 pm

Knackeredknees wrote:Sorry I'm late at the stable lads, but it appears that all the high horses have been taken for a hack around moral high ground hill.
I know this may seem to be an out of date way, but how about waiting for all the facts before acting like monkeys in a zoo and throwing Poopie!

Speaking of moral high ground..

by Chjw131 Mon 30 Jan 2012, 12:11 pm

Perhaps he needs to indulge in some martial arts classes, and start learning the valuable life skill of self control?!

I don't want to condemn him out of hand, maybe he's entirely innocent; but unfortunately his previous behaviour indicates otherwise. He's a talent, but of no use until he learns to master his temper. He's old enough to know better.

by Bathite Mon 30 Jan 2012, 12:14 pm

[quote=] I'd like to see him sort this out but it appears he's a bit of a Danny Grewcock on the pitch and a prize banana off it...[/quote]

That's sacriligious! Danny Grewcock played the game on the edge, but played with passion and determination to win for his club and country, in a position where physical confrontation and intimidation is crucial. Yes he got hot headed and it boiled over several times, but it was never mindless violence for the sake of it.

Delon seems to be attracting his attention for petulance and cheap shots, it's not the same.

Danny is also probably one of the nicest blokes you could meet of the pitch as well and widely respected for this. He had that reputation as a thug his whole career and was aware of it, how many times did he get banned for off the pitch troubles?

by Chjw131 Mon 30 Jan 2012, 12:15 pm

To add some more lightheartedness to the situation, take a snap shot of the telegraph RU page. It has 'Armitage dropped after arrest' next to 'I'm a victim, not arrogant' by Armitage...

by EnglishReign Mon 30 Jan 2012, 12:17 pm

Shambles after shambles.

Ah well, blessing in disguise for the Saxons - Jonny May is a better player and a better human being.

by beshocked Mon 30 Jan 2012, 12:19 pm

That's club loyalty for you.

London Irish fan defends London Irish player.

Bath fan defends Bath player.

Shock horror!

by formerly known as Sam Mon 30 Jan 2012, 12:27 pm

Being provoked isn't an excuse. Was he provoked all the other times as well? He has a choice whether or not to act on it.

I don't think he's been arrested previously. This would be a first. He certainly has on field anger issues and likes to be aggressive on the park hence some rather dodgey tackles but this doesn't help matters. His punch on Myler last year was very thuggish and pushing over the doping official was also not clever. We saw at the RWC how his reputation has started to count against him (his takle on Paterson was never worth a ban) and this has come at very much the wrong time.

I know players will want to go out an celebrate a victory but why was he out clubbing post game when trying to force his way back into the EPS. Surely a string of local pubs for a few would have been a better idea than risking some yobs recognising you in a night club and trying to show off how 'big'(/small in the trouser department) they are. Didn't something similar happen to some Wales internationals not long ago?

That's sacriligious! Danny Grewcock played the game on the edge

and was a second row enforcer that never thought twice about throwing a punch if he deemed one was required (ask Ben Youngs). The only difference is that Grewcock was often better at concealing the use of fist and boot on the pitch and did his best to save them for when the were needed and not just when he lost his temper.

by Bathite Mon 30 Jan 2012, 12:32 pm

Sam - Not really sure of you're saying its a good or bad thing. But I'd rather have the Julian White, Danny Grewcock type player over the Delon Armitage type. Not condoning violence, but think there is certainly a difference in the two types of behaviour.

by bathmad Mon 30 Jan 2012, 12:38 pm

Armitage is just going through the motions. He's not interested any more. Just biding time until he goes to Toulon in the summer.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 30 Jan 2012, 12:48 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:Glad to see nobody is making snap judgements about Delon Armitage based on little other than preconceived prejudice.

Have you sent a copy of this to Stuart Lancaster?

by miteyironpaw Mon 30 Jan 2012, 12:59 pm

Chjw131 wrote:To add some more lightheartedness to the situation, take a snap shot of the telegraph RU page. It has 'Armitage dropped after arrest' next to 'I'm a victim, not arrogant' by Armitage...

Well, he does say in that article: "Armitage, who stressed that he wanted to fight for his place in the senior squad...", perhaps that's what he was doing just prior to the arrest.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 30 Jan 2012, 1:02 pm

I think we should save all the cheap shots a jokes untill we find out if this assualt charge is against a dwarf or not

by geoff998rugby Mon 30 Jan 2012, 1:03 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:Glad to see nobody is making snap judgements about Delon Armitage based on little other than preconceived prejudice.

He has not been charged with anything and may not be. I am not condoning him being involved in an incident, but I think it's quite sad that people actually seem to happy that they have another stick with which to beat him.

So you are not pleased with the snap decision of the England management then ?

by ChequeredJersey Mon 30 Jan 2012, 1:30 pm

miteyironpaw wrote:
Chjw131 wrote:To add some more lightheartedness to the situation, take a snap shot of the telegraph RU page. It has 'Armitage dropped after arrest' next to 'I'm a victim, not arrogant' by Armitage...

Well, he does say in that article: "Armitage, who stressed that he wanted to fight for his place in the senior squad...", perhaps that's what he was doing just prior to the arrest.

Was the man he *allegedly* assaulted Foden?

by stlowe Mon 30 Jan 2012, 1:37 pm

geoff998rugby wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:Glad to see nobody is making snap judgements about Delon Armitage based on little other than preconceived prejudice.

He has not been charged with anything and may not be. I am not condoning him being involved in an incident, but I think it's quite sad that people actually seem to happy that they have another stick with which to beat him.

So you are not pleased with the snap decision of the England management then ?

"to suspend Delon from the Saxons EPS pending the result of the police inquiry."

That seems the sensible non-conclusive line that most organisations would take when one of their representatives in under investigation.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 30 Jan 2012, 1:41 pm

stlowe wrote:
geoff998rugby wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:Glad to see nobody is making snap judgements about Delon Armitage based on little other than preconceived prejudice.

He has not been charged with anything and may not be. I am not condoning him being involved in an incident, but I think it's quite sad that people actually seem to happy that they have another stick with which to beat him.

So you are not pleased with the snap decision of the England management then ?

"to suspend Delon from the Saxons EPS pending the result of the police inquiry."

That seems the sensible non-conclusive line that most organisations would take when one of their representatives in under investigation.

Unless its a Lib Dem minister.......

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 30 Jan 2012, 1:42 pm

geoff998rugby wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:Glad to see nobody is making snap judgements about Delon Armitage based on little other than preconceived prejudice.

He has not been charged with anything and may not be. I am not condoning him being involved in an incident, but I think it's quite sad that people actually seem to happy that they have another stick with which to beat him.

So you are not pleased with the snap decision of the England management then ?

The England management have done the right thing pending the police investigation. My annoyance is with the holier than thou brigade on here and other internet based platforms who make sweeping statements about his character despite having never met the man, and make assumptions of his guilt based on little other than their own preconceptions.

Some also then seek to defend others with similar disciplinary records claiming such nonsense as their are different kinds of violence and the ones perpetrated by their man were acceptable ones.

It's utter nonsense.

A police investigation, and then if appropriate a trial in a court of law will decide his guilt or otherwise, not the rubbish spouted by some on here.

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 30 Jan 2012, 1:46 pm

Ozzy, you do realise people are not just basing these things on nothing? He has done plenty of thuggish things so far. How is it rubbish when people call for him to be dropped by England due to his constant thuggery and sheer lack of respect? The man is acting like a complete moron and needs to get himself back on track. There is nothing wrong with anyone thinking that, as it is just the truth whether you like it or not. You can hardly blame people for thinking assault might not be that out of character for him?

by Irish Londoner Mon 30 Jan 2012, 1:47 pm

Unfotunately Delon being Delon and reputation going before you and all that, even the most loyal Irish fan will be thinking "Oh Jesus what's he done this time..."
I really hope it's a fuss over nothing but he's looking increasingly like someone who will be remembered more for wasting their talent than using it.

by geoff998rugby Mon 30 Jan 2012, 1:57 pm

Ozzy who are these players with similar records who are defended on here Headscratch

by Bathite Mon 30 Jan 2012, 1:59 pm

Me defending Grewcock by saying he was a thug on the pitch, but never suffered from off the pitch troubles.

My opinions of Delon are based on meeting him, watching him play and behave of the pitch and other players generally awful opinion of him, which I have heard first hand.

by Chjw131 Mon 30 Jan 2012, 2:07 pm

Firstly, Bathie I would say that bringing Grewcock into it perhaps wasn't the best ploy. I know he's reported to be a kitten cuddling softy off the pitch, but for me that completely overlooks that he grew and developed in a completely different era to Delon.

Danny's extra-curricular activities may well have gone utterly unreported and his on-field play was developed in an amateur era when it was all jolly well fair and above board to dish out a few. Even then he still raised eyebrows in the dawn of the professional era.

Ozzy, I think it's a little overboard to claim that everyone is persecuting Delon, and that the claims are totally unfounded. Are you genuinely claiming he's just been really unlucky with who he's come into contact with? You don't go pushing a doping official around, no matter how officious he may be. He has a poor reputation and seems to display a lack of self control, and the more he is indulged the worse it will become.

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 30 Jan 2012, 2:53 pm

Where have I claimed that everyone is persecuting Delon or that he is unlucky?

I agree that he has let himself down at times and has failed to fulfil his undoubted potential, my issue is with utter garbage statements like...

"Why am I not surprised, the guys is a prize t wat. Arrogant, over rated and disrespectful"

"He's only ever in the rugby news for random acts of violence or stupidty - not for actually playing good rugby."

"Jonny May is a better player and a better human being"

which are based on preconceived opinions borne of reading media rubbish rather than based on facts. Has the poster who compares him to Johnny May met both of them? I doubt that very much.

Likewise justifying Danny Grewcocks acts of violence on the pitch by saying 'ah well sure he's a nice fella off of it' whilst castigating Delon for his misdeanours, which with the exception of this incident and the doping officer one, have all taken place on the field is just laughable frankly.

In relation to the doping officer incident, I would advise people to read the RFU disciplinary hearing report into it before making sweeping judgements about what Delon did or didn't do.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 30 Jan 2012, 2:57 pm

You have to admit its a bit ironic because Armitage only got his first callup to England after Ojo and Brown were dropped fro being naughty and in Browns case a bit grumpy.

by munkian Mon 30 Jan 2012, 3:05 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:Where have I claimed that everyone is persecuting Delon or that he is unlucky?

I agree that he has let himself down at times and has failed to fulfil his undoubted potential, my issue is with utter garbage statements like...

"Why am I not surprised, the guys is a prize t wat. Arrogant, over rated and disrespectful"

"He's only ever in the rugby news for random acts of violence or stupidty - not for actually playing good rugby."

"Jonny May is a better player and a better human being"

which are based on preconceived opinions borne of reading media rubbish rather than based on facts. Has the poster who compares him to Johnny May met both of them? I doubt that very much.

Likewise justifying Danny Grewcocks acts of violence on the pitch by saying 'ah well sure he's a nice fella off of it' whilst castigating Delon for his misdeanours, which with the exception of this incident and the doping officer one, have all taken place on the field is just laughable frankly.

In relation to the doping officer incident, I would advise people to read the RFU disciplinary hearing report into it before making sweeping judgements about what Delon did or didn't do.

OK, I should have said '" Recently he's only ever in the rugby news for random acts of violence or stupidty'

So when, RECENTLY has there been positive news about him ? Last time he played for England he was distinctly gash

by Bathite Mon 30 Jan 2012, 3:10 pm

I didn't bring Grewcock into it, someone else did, I just defended him. As I said, being a professional sportsman is more than playing on the pitch, its about attitude and well, professionalism. In that respect, there is no comparison between the two. Its the things outside of their ability that make me, as a rugby fan decide whether I like them and that then determines, fairly or unfairly if I rate them. I'll always have a fondness for players like Vyvyan, Grewcock, Cueto because their personality shines through.

Pete, I've read the report and met Delon as well as many other players in person, therefore I am perfectly placed to have my own opinion on him, which is that he is arrogant and disrespectful, along with many other players I might add, Michael Lipman being one Bath player, for the sake of fairness.

You're allowed to defend him as he plays for your team, but me, along with many others have multiple reasons to dislike him.

I have never been a fan of him to be honest, always had a bad opinion of him, just seemed to exude it and he never sat right with me, but was willing to give him benefit of the doubt. Then players told me all about him and his reputation for being one of the most unpopular on the circuit (along with Mike Brown, by the way!), so I was willing to give him another chance, but then he behaved like he did for the last 18 months. How many chances does one guy deserve?

by **Ozzy3213** Mon 30 Jan 2012, 3:44 pm

Bathite, and anyone else.

Please try to understand what I am saying. I AM NOT defending him. What I am saying is that some people on here talk out of their holes with some of the comments they are making about him.

If he is found guilty, then he will be rightly punished, and Lancaster has done the right thing suspending him pending the outcome of the investigation. I have said this already, but feel that I must repeat myself as people seem to think I am protesting his innocence here. I AM NOT.

I am merely railing against the over the top and ill informed reaction of some on here and elsewhere.

That is my last word on the topic folks. Have fun out there, and for some of you, make sure your halos don't slip and are nice and shiny! Wink

by Bathite Mon 30 Jan 2012, 3:52 pm

Thats cool mate, I don't mind if you do defend him to be honest, I've defended Matt Stevens and still would to an extent, thats your opinion and you're entitled to it, I'm just stating my opinion of him and the reasons why I arrived at it. I'm saying why it isn't ill informed and why it isn't over the top in my opinion

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