Just What The Doctor Ordered For Nadal

A tough 5 set loss in a slam final may not at first leave the loser with many positives. Nadal is not by any stretch of the imagination the usual player so for him taking part in such a scrap may be the enjoyable part of the sport. He is often quoted as saying what he loves about the game of tennis is the competion.

Federer up until recently was the only player who could inspire him to produce his best. Nadal always appears inspired and motivated when he plays him. He plays with more passion and at a higher level than he does against any other player. But like it or not (I certainly don't want to think about it) Federer is getting older... Also like it or not Nadal when he plays with extra passion will usually come out as a winner in this particular match up. I can remember an interview Nadal gave soon after beating Federer in the 2009 Australian Open final. He sounded sad and wistful and he talked about a dream he had about reaching the top of a mountain. (I can't remember the source or exact quote).

Contrast that with what he has to say after yesterdays loss to Djokovic

But that's nice be there fighting, you know, trying to go to the limit, bring your body to the limit of his chances. Something I really enjoy, and I always said is good suffer, enjoy  enjoy suffering, no?


So when you are fit, when you are, you know, with passion for the game, when you are ready to compete, you are able to suffer and enjoy suffering, no?


I don't know if I express very well, but is something that maybe you understand. So today I had this feeling, and is a really good one. I enjoyed. I suffered during the match, but I enjoyed all the troubles that I had during all the match.


I enjoyed. I tried to be there, to find solutions all the time. I played a lot with my heart. I played a lot with my mind, and is something that is nice to be around and not just play tennis.


http://www.australianopen.com/en_AU/news/interviews/2012-01-30/201201291327853403275.html

I'm sure Nadal would have enjoyed it all the more if he'd got a particular backhand into play but it appears that what he really loves is the competition. If he was at the top of the tennis mountain all alone he wouldn't experience the same adrenaline rush that comes from being in the middle of a difficult battle. Its only when Nadal is really pushed, when he has his back to the wall that he produces his very best tennis. Not for him the sort of show off tennis that some higher ranked players attempt against lower ranked players (tweeners etc). He has no interest in style points. If he pulls off what looks like the impossible its because that's the only option.

Many of his detractors and fans might perhaps feel "concern" over his latest loss to Djokovic. I always feel that his detractors are always the first to express concern about Nadal. But maybe its difficult for us to understand what motivates such a unique player. I like it that in this interview he tries to explain.

This rivalry may be just what the doctor ordered for Nadal. I wouldn't be surprised if he's already looking forward to the next battle. I wonder if Djokovic is too?

He sounds very much like Federer does after a defeat at the French to Nadal. They are both mighty competitors who react to adversity with strength and don't back away from the risk of another hiding. On clay Fed has turned up time after time because unlike others he probably couldn't care less about the past, it's the future that matters and he wants to beat him.

That tells me Nadal is going nowhere and won't run from the battle.

It doesn't change my opinion about his chances though.

hawkeye wrote:

This rivalry may be just what the doctor ordered for Nadal.

You mean Dr Shipman!

I wouldn't be surprised if he's already looking forward to the next battle.

Really? I would!

It's just what I said on the other thread. Nadal prefers being the predator to the prey as his career has consistently shown. Apart from the Aus Open 2009 and the summer stint in 2010 he tends to have played his best tennis when No. 2 trying to knock down the No. 1.

Nice article Hawkeye - you should write about Nadal more often.

I think Nadal is a great guy in real life, particularly in the after match interviews. So, why doesn't he behave accordingly during matches?

carrieg4

Ahh thankyou!

Tenez

Nadal did try and explain why he loves a battle. It might be difficult for us mere mortals to understand...

On the other hand, I don't think that Djoko is fretting overly much about the re-match.

barrystar

Did you see them both at the trophy ceremony?

https://www.606v2.com/t22842-give-those-champions-a-chair

I cannot believe there is a pleasure in battling physically for so long and being beaten at the end of it. Especially not the way Nadal gets beaten. A sliced BH dtl, a CC FH, a sliced BH down the line a CC fh...untill exhaustion. It doesn't put Nadal and his game in a good light. It's fine when it;s Federer doing all the creative and Nadal finishes the point with a spectacular retrieval from the 3rd row but when faced with Djokovic, Djoko doesn;t even need to tire. He only did get tired yesterday cause he was tired from Saturday and is carrying a few niggling injuries.

I have seen humiliation in Nadal's face a few times. I don't think that's pleasurable....sorry.

Its clear to me now that Nadal can only beat Djokovic if Djokovic loses motivation, niggling injuries can't stop him, it's only whether his ambition and his focus goes out of the window. Nadal will probably not get as close to beating Djokovic as he did yesterday, unless they play in bo3 matches and Novak didn't value the tournament highly enough!

Tenez wrote:

hawkeye wrote:

This rivalry may be just what the doctor ordered for Nadal.

You mean Dr Shipman!

This at least made me laugh

It's a good start by Nadal and Murray against Djokovic for the year. At least they have made their intentions clear they will push him all the way and will battle through. Make no mistake, those are the only threat to Djokovic contrary to the laughable assertions of Federer fans Federer can some how beat Djokovic. Infact, Djokovic has already put the fear of God in Federer with that return winner on Match Point at the USO. It's plain sailing for him now.

For Nadal, he likes the challenge. I never felt Federer provided enough challenge to Nadal and suprised he felt so down beat after beating him at the AO 2009 final. It was inevitable. Djokovic now is the ultimate test for him. What i find interesting is his mood seems more positive in the press conference and he has improved against Djokovic since an average performance at Wimbledon last year. Nadal will keep on working on new changes on his game that's for sure. For example after another defeat to Nadal, you hardly ever hear Federer talking about making changes to his game. He is almost short of ideas on what to do and you see that in the matches as well. Federer starts playing well and takes a huge lead and once Nadal hits a huge winner and fist pumps, game over. Federer is stuck with fear. There was passion and drive in Nadal yesterday, something i never saw last year so good to see. He will take time off and adjust to his new racquet and come back for more meetings with Djokovic. It will not be easy but bet he is going to try and i hope Djokovic stays on his current level of play as well throughout the year.

Note:

If anyone replies to Simples idiocy then they are as stupid as he is.

I honestly think Djokovic prefers playing on the clay than he does to the Aussie courts, so saying that it will be different for Nadal because of the dirt is clutching at thin straws.

I think this helps Nadal's psyche after the more one sided loses at wimby and at the USO. But it still isn't a win, and Novak did play five hours two days before. When you think about nearly 11 hours of championship level tennis in 48 hour time frame you get the idea of how mentally and physically strong Novak is. Murray could be the x-factor and Roger is still there and competing at a high level. I think this match doesn't hurt either guy's confidence, it also serves notice to Novak not to get complacent because Nadal and Murray are still threats.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:I honestly think Djokovic prefers playing on the clay than he does to the Aussie courts, so saying that it will be different for Nadal because of the dirt is clutching at thin straws.

+1

Nadals best chance is on faster courts where Djokovic can be denied the chance to run around like a mentalist retrieving everything.

BB, I don't know on a faster court like USO or wimbeldon I think Novak has bigger advantage because he stands closer to the baseline, hits flatter, and goes up the line more. I think of the slams FO and AO are still his best chances against Djokovic. I say this even considering Novak won 4 straight sets off of him on the clay last year.

bogbrush wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:I honestly think Djokovic prefers playing on the clay than he does to the Aussie courts, so saying that it will be different for Nadal because of the dirt is clutching at thin straws.

+1

Nadals best chance is on faster courts where Djokovic can be denied the chance to run around like a mentalist retrieving everything.

In case it's escaped you all, Nadal's main problem is that he cannot dictate play against Novak. i.e. it's Nadal's who's doing running around and retrieving most of the time.

NOle's' just too good or everyone at the moment, whatever surface he plays on. Yes, even the fastest ones.
Accept it, relax, and enjoy

Nadal doesn't dictate very often but the huge advantage Djoko has over others when facing Nadal is that he can do the running when needed WITHOUT losing the edge of his game cause he also hits with some good margins from BH and FH.

THat is Djokovic's secret. The rest is irrelevant.

Federer doesn;t have any safe margin on the BH and needs to be tiptop all along...which of course is nearly impossible....unless Nadal tires first and gives Federer shorter balls (Miami 05 and Wimbledon 07).

Federer with a DHBH would probably have never lost to Nadal.

noleisthebest wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:I honestly think Djokovic prefers playing on the clay than he does to the Aussie courts, so saying that it will be different for Nadal because of the dirt is clutching at thin straws.

+1

Nadals best chance is on faster courts where Djokovic can be denied the chance to run around like a mentalist retrieving everything.

In case it's escaped you all, Nadal's main problem is that he cannot dictate play against Novak. i.e. it's Nadal's who's doing running around and retrieving most of the time.

NOle's' just too good or everyone at the moment, whatever surface he plays on. Yes, even the fastest ones.
Accept it, relax, and enjoy

Let me be clear, Nadals limited, unimaginative game has been well and truly found out (and enjoy it for now nitb, because Djokovic will be found out too - it happens to them all you know!) and all I'm saying is that on the slowest court that exposure is even worse. At least a big chunky lad like Rafa can hit the ball hard and on a very good serving day he might squeak by on a fast court.

bogbrush wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:I honestly think Djokovic prefers playing on the clay than he does to the Aussie courts, so saying that it will be different for Nadal because of the dirt is clutching at thin straws.

+1

Nadals best chance is on faster courts where Djokovic can be denied the chance to run around like a mentalist retrieving everything.

In case it's escaped you all, Nadal's main problem is that he cannot dictate play against Novak. i.e. it's Nadal's who's doing running around and retrieving most of the time.

NOle's' just too good or everyone at the moment, whatever surface he plays on. Yes, even the fastest ones.
Accept it, relax, and enjoy

Let me be clear, Nadals limited, unimaginative game has been well and truly found out (and enjoy it for now nitb, because Djokovic will be found out too - it happens to them all you know!) and all I'm saying is that on the slowest court that exposure is even worse. At least a big chunky lad like Rafa can hit the ball hard and on a very good serving day he might squeak by on a fast court.

I know where you're coming BB, I'm just saying that Nole doesn't need to fear fast courts, on the contrary!
However, I won't deny that his game at present suits slower hard courts perfectly.

The fact that the courts are slow(er) prevents going to the net more for him because it gives all the time in the world to Murray and Nadal to pass him.
Nole would LOVE courts a bit faster, believe me .... I don't think anybody enjoys slogging. But if the slog is the safe, winning optio, he's got that one, as well.

Also, I am very, very aware of the fact that nothing lasts forever, and AM savouring this time tremendously.

I suppose you had it as a Federer fan a few years ago and so did Nadal fans.

It's Nole time now, he is doing it his way, displaying all the things I have always loved about him as a player: character, charm, madness, sleekness and spirit.

Nadal actually was more agressive and cut the gap to Djokovic in that match, But probably by less than half of what's needed to reclaim #1. Even though it was a tight 5 setter Nadal was hanging in there for much of it, and Djokovic wasn't at his best.

Henman Bill wrote:Nadal actually was more agressive and cut the gap to Djokovic in that match, But probably by less than half of what's needed to reclaim #1. Even though it was a tight 5 setter Nadal was hanging in there for much of it, and Djokovic wasn't at his best.

Nadal actually gained points from AO 2012, unlike Djokovic or Federer. Murray lost some points (SF 2012 vs. F 2011).

The Clay swing may see #1 and #2 being exchanged, depending on the Clay masters. Djokovic is defending Roma and Madrid. MC is his only chance to gain points.

Djokovic could probably lose all the finals and stay #1.

I'm sure after his "injury" break Nadal will be back fully recharged for another assault on clay.

laverfan wrote:
The Clay swing may see #1 and #2 being exchanged, depending on the Clay masters. Djokovic is defending Roma and Madrid. MC is his only chance to gain points.

It's not very likely, Djoko would need to tank badly

Current gap is 3,195

Upto RG:
Djoko defends 4,750 points (4x TMS, Dubai, Belgrade)
Nadal defends 3,900 points (MC, 4x TMS final, Barcelona)

At RG:
Nadal defends 2,000 points
Djoko defends 720 points

I doubt Novak will lose the #1 ranking during the clay court season. he has a ton of points to defend but a fairly decent size gap at this point. And lets remember that Nadal reached the finals of basically every event between now and wimbeldon. He didn't play dubai, but he has finals to defend at IW, Miami. A win at MC. Finals at madrid, rome, win at RG and finals at wimby. It won't be easy for him to gain points either.

The main thing for these guys is to win Slams. The one who performs best at the Slams will most likely be #1 at the end of the year.

However the rankings are important to get more favourable draws. In that sense being #1 or #2 doesn't matter so much right now. I guess Nadal wants to avoid slipping to #3 and his AO performance helped a great deal there.
Similarly Murray did well to defend most of his AO points and not let Tsonga get much closer. Dropping to #5 would be very bad for Slam draws, but now Tsonga is unlikely to overtake Murray.

prostaff85 wrote:The main thing for these guys is to win Slams. The one who performs best at the Slams will most likely be #1 at the end of the year.

However the rankings are important to get more favourable draws. In that sense being #1 or #2 doesn't matter so much right now. I guess Nadal wants to avoid slipping to #3 and his AO performance helped a great deal there.
Similarly Murray did well to defend most of his AO points and not let Tsonga get much closer. Dropping to #5 would be very bad for Slam draws, but now Tsonga is unlikely to overtake Murray.

Murray is 'defending' 20 points at IW/Miami combined. He's surely going to pick up some points there.

He also seems to be improving on clay which is handy given that he has quite a few clay points to defend, 1,570.

Of the top 4 it is Fed who is most vulnerable to a position change, but not to No. 5 this summer by a long chalk.

barrystar wrote:Of the top 4 it is Fed who is most vulnerable to a position change, but not to No. 5 this summer by a long chalk.

I think Nadal has a lot to defend in spring and up to Wimbledon. He has been pretty lucky while Federer was at the top to have clay as his safe heaven to have prevented earlier meeting with him and even v Nalbandian or Davydenko. Those 2 fell consistantly on Fed's side of the draw. Likewise he has been lucky in a way not to have had to face Djoko in semis over the last year cause he could have affected his ranking much more.

A slip up in spring and Nadal may easily drop to number 3. That's why Murray is going to be key this year as whover gets the number 2 spot is in a priviledge situation. I think Federer has little to defend too before the FO and less at Wimbledon.

But Rafa at number 3 could certainly open things up.

Tenez wrote:

barrystar wrote:Of the top 4 it is Fed who is most vulnerable to a position change, but not to No. 5 this summer by a long chalk.

I think Nadal has a lot to defend in spring and up to Wimbledon. He has been pretty lucky while Federer was at the top to have clay as his safe heaven to have prevented earlier meeting with him and even v Nalbandian or Davydenko. Those 2 fell consistantly on Fed's side of the draw. Likewise he has been lucky in a way not to have had to face Djoko in semis over the last year cause he could have affected his ranking much more.

A slip up in spring and Nadal may easily drop to number 3. That's why Murray is going to be key this year as whover gets the number 2 spot is in a priviledge situation. I think Federer has little to defend too before the FO and less at Wimbledon.

But Rafa at number 3 could certainly open things up.

But the thing with Murray is he feels sorry for the big players, he felt sorry that Nadal lost Wimbledon and decided to go soft on him in USO. In '10 he felt sorry that Fed had lost the previous AO to Nadal and couldn't allow him to be upset again. Then, again in recent Djoko clash he felt sorry that the Serb hadn't defended a slam title before. Murray goes onto court with too many thoughts in his head, needs to be ice cold.

I had a quick look and if we take away all points that will drop before RG, then Nadal has about 500 points more than Federer, so not a large gap.

Nadal skips February so Fed might get a little closer even if he does well in Rotterdam and/or Dubai.
For Indian Wells/Miami I'd give them equal chances, but of course Nadal is likely to earn more points during the clay masters...

I haven't done the math for Murray but I guess he isn't too far off either! So Nadal needs to perform well until the French to safeguard he #2 seeding to avoid Djokovic.

prostaff85 wrote:I had a quick look and if we take away all points that will drop before RG, then Nadal has about 500 points more than Federer, so not a large gap.

Nadal skips February so Fed might get a little closer even if he does well in Rotterdam and/or Dubai.
For Indian Wells/Miami I'd give them equal chances, but of course Nadal is likely to earn more points during the clay masters...

I haven't done the math for Murray but I guess he isn't too far off either! So Nadal needs to perform well until the French to safeguard he #2 seeding to avoid Djokovic.

Murray needs to get a win over Nadal in either a clay masters or outdo him at the French if he is serious about getting above him in the rankings.

prostaff85 wrote:For Indian Wells/Miami I'd give them equal chances, but of course Nadal is likely to earn more points during the clay masters...

I don't expect Federer to break a leg in te last HC tournaments but Nadal can also fall early there.

I haven't done the math for Murray but I guess he isn't too far off either! So Nadal needs to perform well until the French to safeguard he #2 seeding to avoid Djokovic.

Yep...that's my point. Either Murray getting to number 2 or Federer getting there would work for Federer. In fact due to te bad match up....Murray getting to number 2 and Fed and Nadal at 3 n 4 would work best for Federer.

If you take off the Murray/Nadal points to the end of RG they are very close to level pegging. Nadal therefore needs to out-perform Murray to keep his points lead to pre Wimbledon, which I would expect him to do given that there are so many clay points available. There's very little prospect of Murray overhauling Nadal before RG.

Tenez wrote:I cannot believe there is a pleasure in battling physically for so long and being beaten at the end of it. Especially not the way Nadal gets beaten. A sliced BH dtl, a CC FH, a sliced BH down the line a CC fh...untill exhaustion. It doesn't put Nadal and his game in a good light. It's fine when it;s Federer doing all the creative and Nadal finishes the point with a spectacular retrieval from the 3rd row but when faced with Djokovic, Djoko doesn;t even need to tire. He only did get tired yesterday cause he was tired from Saturday and is carrying a few niggling injuries.

I have seen humiliation in Nadal's face a few times. I don't think that's pleasurable....sorry.

Agghh Tenez.

There's so many things that I disagree with you about but maybe one slight area of agreement. As far as interesting, exciting creative tennis goes Nadal v Federer nearly always puts Nadal v Djokovic in the shade. IMO if it was down to tennis quality rather than dramatic score lines the Nadal Federer semi was superior to the final. Nadal pushes Federer to be creative but Federer does the same to Nadal.

Djokovic is an amazing player and what he does he does amazingly well but he doesn't bring anything new to the game. I know you think Federer does but I will never understand why you can't see that Nadal does too. Maybe not liking his personality has blinded you to his game?

Also no way was Nadal "humiliated". Unlike many who have a too high opinion of themselves his opinion of himself is set low (too low sometimes). It would be very difficult to knock him off a pedestal because he doesn't see himself in that lofty position.

If Nadal "did" creative he'd bring something other than endless retieval to Djokovic; after all, Federer/Djokovic matches aren't half a day of running around.
I think it's more a case of Djokovic adapting his game to neutralise Nadal; rather than putting himself on the line for Nadal to pass, he just tells him that "anything you can do I can do better", and kills him.

hawkeye wrote:Nadal pushes Federer to be creative but Federer does the same to Nadal.

Like what? playing 90% of loopy CC FH? Nadal's main worry when playing Federer, and it;s obvious, it's to make sure Federer does some running (investment for the following sets whatever happens at the beginning) and that the ball he sends has enough energy and spin that Federer can't pull too many winners out of it and therefore forces federer to rally (therefore do the running I was talking about). Without that energetic ball, Nadal woudl be bagelled like he was 2 months ago. That's why it makes me laugh when some suggest it's in Fed's mind!

hawkeye wrote:Djokovic is an amazing player and what he does he does amazingly well but he doesn't bring anything new to the game. I know you think Federer does but I will never understand why you can't see that Nadal does too. Maybe not liking his personality has blinded you to his game?

What djoko can do is explained above. Safer shots and can do the running without losing a vital edge.

hawkeye wrote:Also no way was Nadal "humiliated". Unlike many who have a too high opinion of themselves his opinion of himself is set low (too low sometimes). It would be very difficult to knock him off a pedestal because he doesn't see himself in that lofty position.

I have not seen much of the final but he certainly looked a bit stupid in his other finals v Djoko as Djoko was a step ahead most of the time and was making Nadal run as if Djoko held him at the end of a string.

....those loopy cross court forehands played with such energy and spin look pretty creative to me.

Of course this makes it more difficult to hit a winner! I don't think Nadal wants to make it easy for Federer to do this! What they BOTH try and do is somehow get the other out of position or get a weak shot so they can go for a winner.

Federer doesn't usually try and slap winners from anywhere. In fact he was contemptuous of Djokovic for going for such a shot at the US Open. This is a tactic that that lower ranked players do in desparation. I know you like to think otherwise but Nadal does the same. He's more risk adverse and can afford to be because those loopy balls make it difficult for an opponant to go for winners. But given the opportunity he will go for winners.

Do you think all players look stupid when they lose?

hawkeye wrote:....those loopy cross court forehands played with such energy and spin look pretty creative to me.

Do they? That's the trick. With those strings and biceps they are the easiest shots nadal coudl come up with at the exception of the push/sliced shot. This CC shot is extremely safe and that is why nadal's 1st preoccupation is not its placement but make sure it has enough energy (power and spin) in it.

But hey...It might make Nadal look good v Federer, it does makehim look clue less v Djoko.

Aren't you impressed that Nadal looks good against Federer? I know I am. I also think Federer looks good against Nadal. They've played some of the best matches. Federer may have a losing record against Nadal but you shouldn't let that spoil your enjoyment. He does have 16 slams!

I can remember Nadal and Federer playing a match way back. It was on clay in Monte Carlo or Rome. They played an amazing ralley. Federer lost but he shouted a loud "Ye ha". I don't think I've ever heard a player express such joy in the middle of a competative match. He obviously really enjoyed the point win or lose. I can understand how he felt. It still makes me smile when I think about it. These two players just bring out the best in each other

hawkeye wrote:Aren't you impressed that Nadal looks good against Federer? I know I am. I also think Federer looks good against Nadal. They've played some of the best matches. Federer may have a losing record against Nadal but you shouldn't let that spoil your enjoyment. He does have 16 slams!

I can remember Nadal and Federer playing a match way back. It was on clay in Monte Carlo or Rome. They played an amazing ralley. Federer lost but he shouted a loud "Ye ha". I don't think I've ever heard a player express such joy in the middle of a competative match. He obviously really enjoyed the point win or lose. I can understand how he felt. It still makes me smile when I think about it. These two players just bring out the best in each other

Frankly no. I am in fact really puzzled you can be fan of both styles of play. I can certainly appreciate Federer v Nalby v Coria in any order for instance but Nadal's game is about destroying Federer's genius v ridiculous amount of energy and we know that without this amazing cyclical energy, he would struggle scoring games.

I cannot be impressed. Besides, faster conds would certainly have made the H2H much reversed. It's close enough like that with dead slow conds.

Its the very contrast in their styles of play that makes what IMO is the best match up in tennis. Individually they are both great champions and would be even if the other didn't exist. Of course when they play there has to be a winner and loser but I don't see anyone getting destroyed or humiliated. Federer has no reason to feel "humiliated" by Nadal and he's never given the impression that he feels "destroyed" by him. What you often see is that they both raise thieir level. I think both players must enjoy playing at such a raised level. That was why I mentioned Federer's "Ye ha" moment.

Maybe your upset by Nadal because you view loss as humiliation. Not everyone feels the same. Whats that poem about treating those two imposters just the same.

... and faster conditions would have deprived us of some of the most memorable matches. You do Federer a disservice if you think he can't play on clay. IMO he's one of the best players ever including on clay...

hawkeye wrote:Its the very contrast in their styles of play that makes what IMO is the best match up in tennis. Individually they are both great champions

Yes great point, unfortunately sadistic Nadal hatahs will continue to go on and on in an attempt to discredit Nadal and devalue his achievements; they should get a life IMHO.