Two players cited after weekend

by Adam D Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:17 am

Two players have been cited following the RBS 6 Nations match between Ireland and Wales in Dublin on Sunday.

Bradley Davies (Wales) and Stephen Ferris (Ireland) have been cited by the independent Six Nations Citing Commissioner for the match, Achille Reali (Italy), for foul play under IRB Law 10.4(j)*.

The players’ hearings, before an independent Six Nations Disciplinary Committee, will be held on Wednesday (8 February) in London.

*Law 10.4 (j) states: “Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player’s feet are still off the ground such that the player’s head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground is dangerous play”.

by Glas a du Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:20 am

That's a disgrace. The problem is for some fans now, Davies' actions will seen to be 'justified' as Ryan has effectively got away with a shocking piece of foul play. You are not supposed to take the law into your own hands, but if the authorities don't know their harse from their elbow it's going to happen.

by Standulstermen Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:21 am

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:21 am

Does anyone know if its an automatic citeing for a "serious foul play" yellow?

Davies' citeing was a no brainer, but the Ferris tackle was so borderline even as a yellow that Im suprissed to see him hauled up infront of judge judy.

by ME-109 Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:23 am

Glas a du wrote:That's a disgrace. The problem is for some fans now, Davies' actions will seen to be 'justified' as Ryan has effectively got away with a shocking piece of foul play. You are not supposed to take the law into your own hands, but if the authorities don't know their harse from their elbow it's going to happen.

by Standulstermen Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:24 am

Just means the citing commissioner thinks he has a case to answer. He could/ should still be cleared

by Glas a du Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:25 am

What bit don't you understand?

(P.S. I think not starting with ROG was a big mistake for Ireland)

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:26 am

Glas a du wrote:That's a disgrace. The problem is for some fans now, Davies' actions will seen to be 'justified' as Ryan has effectively got away with a shocking piece of foul play. You are not supposed to take the law into your own hands, but if the authorities don't know their harse from their elbow it's going to happen.

The charging? it was hardly shocking
The Davies "clear out" was hardly taking the law into his hands, it was up there with the Umanga vs BOD moment and clearly done with intent.

by ME-109 Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:28 am

I am still looking for someone to show me Ryans "shocking" bit of foul play. You must be Chunky Norwich in disguise Glas. It was done to death yesterday. Apparently it wasnt a shocking bit of foul play just aggressive rucking....doesnt deserve to have your neck broken now does it?

Wouldnt have mattered if we started the Pope last weekend.

by formerly known as Sam Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:30 am

Davies will expect a ban and not a small one either. Ferris will get a slap on the wrist and told not to do it again. There's been a few cases this year where players have been dragged up in front of the citing commissioner only to be given a warning. Owen Farrell vs Gloucester and Boris Stankovitch vs Bath are both examples of citings for dangerous challenges that didn't result in anything.

by miteyironpaw Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:31 am

"Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player’s feet are still off the ground such that the player’s head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground is dangerous play"

By that definition, the citing panel should only have to apologise to Ferris since one of the tackled player's feet was clearly on the ground, and his head/upper body did not come into contact with the ground first.

Davies, on the other hand should see a lengthy ban.

by Glas a du Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:31 am

The charging and the grappling with Davies in the lead up. If you play the big hard man, do it properly FFS!

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:33 am

What did Ryan do?

by ME-109 Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:34 am

Glas a du wrote:The charging and the grappling with Davies in the lead up. If you play the big hard man, do it properly FFS!

Hardly shocking foul play...but you seem to think its ok then for Davies to attempt to break his neck?

by miteyironpaw Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:35 am

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:What did Ryan do?

Bound to the ruck illegally. It was a shoulder charge of the same variety that saw many many penalties awarded during the RWC. I think Brad Thorn was penalised in the final for doing just this in an attacking ruck. I don't think there were any yellow cards or citings over it though.

by **rodders** Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:36 am

Davies is in big trouble and Ferris will get an apology. There's nothing else to see here.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:38 am

Can we get this merged with the other article so we dont have to rehash all this bickering again?

Glas if you think that trying to stop someone pushing you back out of a ruck is "grappling" and shocking foul play then frankly theres no point in having any kind of conversation with you on this. Davies is clealry the agressor in the contact btween the two, carries it on out of the ruck, moves to Ryyans legs when hes doing nothing and then dumps him.
It may have been sparked by a possible yellow card charging offence on Jones, but the reaction is so far disprortionate its ridiculous. At no time do Ryan doing anything other than atempt to stay on his feet when rucked and then assaulted by Davies

by Glas a du Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:39 am

DOD wrote:
Glas a du wrote:The charging and the grappling with Davies in the lead up. If you play the big hard man, do it properly FFS!

Hardly shocking foul play...but you seem to think its ok then for Davies to attempt to break his neck?

No I don't. There is no excuse for what Davies did. I will not defend him, he needs and will get a long ban. But how can you defend Ryan? He more than contributed to his downfall by being a tool. Don't you remember Botha doing exactly the same against Adam Jones on the Lions tour? He was trying to injure a key player for Wales and was miles offside in doing so.

by offload Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:41 am

roddersm wrote:Davies is in big trouble and Ferris will get an apology. There's nothing else to see here.

Yes agree. It will be unfair if Ferris gets anything - it was a penalty at most. I think Davies will have the book thrown at him.

by Glas a du Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:46 am

Right, I'll give over. I hadn't read the other threads and can see where you are all coming from.

Doh

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:47 am

That wouldn't be much of a punishment, someone throwing a book at him.

by GunsGerms Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:47 am

Pretty surprised ferris is going to be cited. Bizarre call. I guess it's the IRBs way of backing Barnes' brain fart.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:49 am

Glas a du wrote:
DOD wrote:
Glas a du wrote:The charging and the grappling with Davies in the lead up. If you play the big hard man, do it properly FFS!

Hardly shocking foul play...but you seem to think its ok then for Davies to attempt to break his neck?

No I don't. There is no excuse for what Davies did. I will not defend him, he needs and will get a long ban. But how can you defend Ryan? He more than contributed to his downfall by being a tool. Don't you remember Botha doing exactly the same against Adam Jones on the Lions tour? He was trying to injure a key player for Wales and was miles offside in doing so.

Ryan wasnt trying to injure, in this case he was reckless in his clearing out. Even in the Botha case Jones said he didnt feel there was any intent, its only since 2009 that charging into a ruck has been considered a card offence.
Botha only got a ban because it caused significant damage.
This was not a schocking piece of foul play by any stretch. Dany Care didnt get cited for his yellow which was for charging into a players back. In this case you had Jones fully sighted as Ryan came in to his shoulder and engaged, its only that he took momentum form a couple of steps that made it a charge rather than a legitimate engae, he did blooming well to hit hard enough to knock the hairy lump back...but it was hardly a head long rampaging run and suicide leap.

by doctornickolas Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:52 am

Both players have been sent off for the same offence so I guess the commissioner is just being consistent here.

What will be different is the punishment. Ferris's attempt was by no means as severe but he did lift him up and attempt the same thing, the difference being that Ian Evans is much bigger and therefore the end result didn't look any where near as bad, especially as Evans managed to get his hands out to save himself.

I don't know if Ferris will end up with any sort of ban but Brad Davies is looking at 6 weeks + I would say as his should have been a red card.

Ryan did come charging in, he was at the ruck and then takes several steps backwards to charge at it again, however Brad should have had the sense to just know when to stop. He dragged Ryan away which should have been the end of it, instead he picks him up and dumps him.

by Glas a du Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:53 am

Aye OK biscuit, as I said, I'm leaving it there thumbsup

If I ever meet you, we can have a civilised discussion about it (if we can be harsed) over a pint.

I suspect however that some other cow will have broken her leg by next week.

by Morgannwg Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:55 am

Anyone know when the decision on Davies will be revealed? Should he be banned I assume Jones to move to 2nd row as Lydiate will likely be available (according to the Wales staff).

by Glas a du Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:58 am

AWJ may be back shortly from what I hear. May be one of those blessings in disguise.

by offload Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:58 am

luckless_pedestrian wrote:That wouldn't be much of a punishment, someone throwing a book at him.

Luckless, I was thinking of the worlds largest book that has nearly 1500 stone pages each 5 inches thick. That's some bed time read.

by SecretFly Tue 07 Feb 2012, 12:06 pm

I guess it's a case of if I should get a slap for stealing a biscuit from the jar then he too should get a slap because he was looking and didn't stop me. Punishment handed out all round to make the offender feel less guilty.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 07 Feb 2012, 12:07 pm

Glas a du wrote:Aye OK biscuit, as I said, I'm leaving it there

If I ever meet you, we can have a civilised discussion about it (if we can be harsed) over a pint.

I suspect however that some other cow will have broken her leg by next week.

A beautiful romance doomed to faliure I feel

No worries though, Ill let you disagree with me on this occassion

by GunsGerms Tue 07 Feb 2012, 12:16 pm

doctornickolas wrote:Both players have been sent off for the same offence so I guess the commissioner is just being consistent here.

What will be different is the punishment. Ferris's attempt was by no means as severe but he did lift him up and attempt the same thing, the difference being that Ian Evans is much bigger and therefore the end result didn't look any where near as bad, especially as Evans managed to get his hands out to save himself.

Hi Doc,

Evans is 6'8 and 18 stone Ryan 6'6 and 17 stone. Not a huge difference in size. Size is irrelevant because if anyone wanted to lift Evans up and drop him on his head Ferris could. He is an ox. He didn't though. Big difference between the two tackles. Ferris lifted one leg and drove upwards and backwards. Davies lifted Ryan up by both legs completely supporting his weight turned him on his back and dropped him on back head and shoulders.

When Evans landed his body was horizontal bar the leg Ferris was holding. If ferris wanted to do a dangerous "tip tackle" he would have held both legs. Can't compare the two.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 07 Feb 2012, 12:21 pm

offload wrote:
luckless_pedestrian wrote:That wouldn't be much of a punishment, someone throwing a book at him.

Luckless, I was thinking of the worlds largest book that has nearly 1500 stone pages each 5 inches thick. That's some bed time read.

Whats that, the IRB regulations on tip tackles?

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 07 Feb 2012, 12:29 pm

leinsterbaby wrote:When Evans landed his body was horizontal bar the leg Ferris was holding.

You might want to watch the footage again.

by BlueNote Tue 07 Feb 2012, 12:31 pm

Um, Ferris did look like he was trying to upend Evans. Still pretty marginal offence, and citing him is a joke. I wonder whether it is felt there is need to give a sop to Welsh sensitivity after the Warburton WC incident? If so, they should realise that's done and dusted and Warbs has held his hand up, we've (almost) all moved on!

by Gibson Tue 07 Feb 2012, 12:46 pm

DOD wrote:I am still looking for someone to show me Ryans "shocking" bit of foul play. You must be Chunky Norwich in disguise Glas. It was done to death yesterday. Apparently it wasnt a shocking bit of foul play just aggressive rucking....doesnt deserve to have your neck broken now does it?

Wouldnt have mattered if we started the Pope last weekend.

Disagree completely. He's German. We would have been far better organised at the back.We are living on a Wing and a Prayer as it is.

by mckay1402 Tue 07 Feb 2012, 1:17 pm

As much add I think Davies should have a ban I also think ferris should. Both potentially dangerous tables in my book. doesn't matter that one leg is down and he was horizontal. Made no difference to the result though

by RubyGuby Tue 07 Feb 2012, 1:31 pm

Ferris has already had his punishment, poor chap, it was a harsh decision in my mind. Bradley will get the maximum ban available to him and perhaps Ryan might think twice next time before going in with some cheap shots. Fair result all round IMO

thumbsup

by GunsGerms Tue 07 Feb 2012, 1:31 pm

luckless_pedestrian wrote:
leinsterbaby wrote:When Evan
s landed his body was horizontal bar the leg Ferris was holding.

You might want to watch the footage again.

Why. Please be more specific.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 07 Feb 2012, 1:36 pm

Because Ian Evans landed on his hands with his legs above him, not horizontally as you claim.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 07 Feb 2012, 1:45 pm

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Because Ian Evans landed on his hands with his legs above him, not horizontally as you claim.

Its worth noting though that theres a specific guidance that a player using his arms to stop the impact being taken on his head/neck doesnt make the tackle safe or legal or exempt from a card.

The only issue really with this one is that he did have one foot down when his arms were on the ground and before his lifted leg was properly tipped. This was not an unending and dumping, more a dumping and upending.
It certainly appears more reckless than intentional, unlike the Davies one.

by The Great Aukster Tue 07 Feb 2012, 1:51 pm

mckay1402 wrote:As much add I think Davies should have a ban I also think ferris should. Both potentially dangerous tables in my book. doesn't matter that one leg is down and he was horizontal. Made no difference to the result though

Every tackle is potentially dangerous! Should Halfpenny get a ban too for lingering under a high ball upending Kearney on the way down? Now that was dangerous Wink

Ferris had obviously intent to tackle without giving a penalty away, Davies had intent to hurt Ryan because he hurt his mate - not even in the same ball park.

BTW how can conceding a last minute penalty have no difference to the result?

by formerly known as Sam Tue 07 Feb 2012, 1:58 pm

Davies is in big trouble and Ferris will get an apology. There's nothing else to see here

Ferris will not get an apology what he'll get is the panel saying that the match sanctions were adequete for dealing with his offence. Then he'll be allowed to go back to training. He's been called in because he received a yellow card for a tip tackle and it's a matter of procedure.

Should Halfpenny get a ban too for lingering under a high ball upending Kearney on the way down? Now that was dangerous

Should Kearney have got a card for jumping into an opposition player Wink

by maestegmafia Tue 07 Feb 2012, 1:58 pm

Only real surprise is that there are only two citings out of three high profile games. The IRB of recent have been very keen to drag players in front of the commissioner.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 07 Feb 2012, 1:59 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Should Kearney have got a card for jumping into an opposition player

If so can we go back over the 900 times Swilliams did it .....

by maestegmafia Tue 07 Feb 2012, 2:33 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Davies is in big trouble and Ferris will get an apology. There's nothing else to see here

Ferris will not get an apology what he'll get is the panel saying that the match sanctions were adequete for dealing with his offence. Then he'll be allowed to go back to training. He's been called in because he received a yellow card for a tip tackle and it's a matter of procedure.

Should Halfpenny get a ban too for lingering under a high ball upending Kearney on the way down? Now that was dangerous

Should Kearney have got a card for jumping into an opposition player

I am surprised halfpenny didn't get cited for being underneath Where Kearney was jumping.

Ha ha ha...!

by lostinwales Tue 07 Feb 2012, 2:35 pm

*sigh maybe I should watch it again but although Ryan goes into the ruck hard I didnt think he made contact with his shoulders - rather it was his arms. Its not the same kind of event as with the Botha yellow card.

Barnes didnt see Davies lift Ryan - play had moved elsewhere - so could only go with what the linesman said - which didnt seem all that conclusive either. I have no idea about the legitimacy of the Ferris tackle but that did happen right in front of him.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 07 Feb 2012, 2:35 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
luckless_pedestrian wrote:Because Ian Evans landed on his hands with his legs above him, not horizontally as you claim.

Its worth noting though that theres a specific guidance that a player using his arms to stop the impact being taken on his head/neck doesnt make the tackle safe or legal or exempt from a card.

The only issue really with this one is that he did have one foot down when his arms were on the ground and before his lifted leg was properly tipped. This was not an unending and dumping, more a dumping and upending.
It certainly appears more reckless than intentional, unlike the Davies one.

Again, have another look at the footage. Both of Ian Evans's legs are off the ground when he uses his hands to break his fall.

by miteyironpaw Tue 07 Feb 2012, 2:42 pm

To be fair, only one of his legs is lifted. He choses to lift the other one of his own accord. Perhaps he should have been penalised and issued a yellow card for tip-tackling himself. And then cited.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 07 Feb 2012, 2:45 pm

Like your style, mitey

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 07 Feb 2012, 2:51 pm

Email your suggestion to the IRB!

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