Munster Ins and Outs

Munster have signed Savenaca Tokula until the end of the season. Have to admit I don't know anything about him but seemingly he plays outside centre / wing for the Chiefs and has played for New Zealand 7s.

It was also announced that Peter Borlase is going on loan to Connacht till the end of the season.

Not sure we need another outside centre/wing to be honest. For me its a waste of money.

He can't play in the HEC and for the Pro 12 we have other young options. Thats the whole point of Pro 12.

Downey, Lualala and this guy? Strange call that is

Is that two short-term injury cover signings for one position in one season? I.e. is he a replacement for Chambers?

Rory. This guy is here only until May.

Downey and Laualala don't arrive until after he is gone.

I just don't see need. Play an Academy player, call up an AIL player etc.

Don Alfonso wrote:Is that two short-term injury cover signings for one position in one season? I.e. is he a replacement for Chambers?

Yes.

red_stag wrote:Rory. This guy is here only until May.

Downey and Laualala don't arrive until after he is gone.

I just don't see need. Play an Academy player, call up an AIL player etc.

Fair enough stag. So will he probably be at 13? I have no idea who he is either.

Instead of signing all these centres I wish Munster would hurry up and play Hanrahan!

Munster have a fair old foreign legion down there these days....

Rodders your flipping right and I can't say I'm happy with these 4 month stop gap signings.

Lifeimi Mafi, Keith Earls, Danny Barnes, JJ Hanrahan are enough to get us through the season.

But stag, Hanrahan isn't actually getting games for Munster is he? In the Pro 12 even? He really should be getting them! Maybe with Barnes at 13.

He isn't Rory and thats my point. He bloody should be.

11 Simon Zebo + Sean Scanlon
12 Lifeimi Mafi + JJ Hanrahan
13 Keith Earls + Danny Barnes
14 Johne Murphy Luke O'Dea
15 Denis Hurley + Felix Jones

Doug Howlett, Troy Smith and Tommy Gleeson are probably going to miss rest of the season.

Why bring in another centre when you can just play Hanrahan??

Because Hanrahan might not be as good against an HEC or good Pro12 team as he is against Welsh U20s? Or at least the managenment don't have faith in him to be.

If Munster were first or second in the Rab C do you think they might have persisited with the youngsters? Is it about not taking risks in ensuring a place in the play-offs?

Can they bring him into their HEC squad at the play-off stage?

How many of thos backs you've mentioned are on contracts or development contracts, Stag?

Thats not like you stag...you are usually looking for us to buy players in....

Gotta say out of the new IRFU restrictions coming in this is the one that i really agree with. I dont think you should be able to have these short term injury cover signings (having said that cant wait for brad thorn). You should sign whoever you want at the start of the season and rely on your depth when theres an injury.

Has Borlase even played this season? and whens his contract up?

Don Alfonso wrote:Because Hanrahan might not be as good against an HEC or good Pro12 team as he is against Welsh U20s? Or at least the managenment don't have faith in him to be.

If Munster were first or second in the Rab C do you think they might have persisited with the youngsters? Is it about not taking risks in ensuring a place in the play-offs?

Can they bring him into their HEC squad at the play-off stage?

Well honestly I think Hanrahan is a huge talent and the only way to see if he is up to it is to play him. Ireland hold back massively. All the other home nations have done this with U20 players, who are now firmly established in their teams now.

Golden wrote:Gotta say out of the new IRFU restrictions coming in this is the one that i really agree with. I dont think you should be able to have these short term injury cover signings (having said that cant wait for brad thorn). You should sign whoever you want at the start of the season and rely on your depth when theres an injury.

Cracker! No double standards then!

DOD wrote:Thats not like you stag...you are usually looking for us to buy players in....

I know yea but I am a big believer in Hanrahan and think that he can do a job, I actually still rate Mafi despite half the Munster fans turned on him, think Keith Earls is a great 13 and Barnes is a guy who can cover 12/13.

Why waste cash on a southern hemisphere signing who'll be gone by May and can't even play in the Heino.

roddersm wrote:

Golden wrote:Gotta say out of the new IRFU restrictions coming in this is the one that i really agree with. I dont think you should be able to have these short term injury cover signings (having said that cant wait for brad thorn). You should sign whoever you want at the start of the season and rely on your depth when theres an injury.

Cracker! No double standards then!

Yep i know the hypocrisy but cant help getting excited over a world cup winner of his calibre coming over. Still dont like the fact that whenever your squads is weakened you can just sign up some one else.

red_stag wrote:

DOD wrote:Thats not like you stag...you are usually looking for us to buy players in....

I know yea but I am a big believer in Hanrahan and think that he can do a job, I actually still rate Mafi despite half the Munster fans turned on him, think Keith Earls is a great 13 and Barnes is a guy who can cover 12/13.

Why waste cash on a southern hemisphere signing who'll be gone by May and can't even play in the Heino.

Is this yet more evidence that Munster do not see Earls as the long term option at 13? (along with the signings of Laulala and Williams)

red_stag wrote:

DOD wrote:Thats not like you stag...you are usually looking for us to buy players in....

I know yea but I am a big believer in Hanrahan and think that he can do a job, I actually still rate Mafi despite half the Munster fans turned on him, think Keith Earls is a great 13 and Barnes is a guy who can cover 12/13.

Why waste cash on a southern hemisphere signing who'll be gone by May and can't even play in the Heino.

But could he play Heino? Is Thorn not going to Leinster for 3 months (and a day) just so he meets the minimum service at the club to validate HCup participation? Maybe I should read the rules but 606v2 is so good at clearing these things up.

Liam Toland ranted and raved about Ulster getting Terblanche in on a short term injury cover contract, calling it disgraceful.

Leinster do the same with Brad Thorn and Toland says it a great move by Leinster.

Bloody hypocrite

roddersm wrote:Munster have a fair old foreign legion down there these days....

Not really, Chambers & Borlases gone, Dougie injured - replaced by one NIQ player. We are the exact opposite

Geoff there is a perception that Ulster are more reliant on foreign players than the others. Even some of the Irish guys Ulster have are men who moved to Ireland in their early 20s like Dan Tuohy, Tom Court, Adam Darcy, Robbie Diack and Isaac Boss before them. Their foreigners are really their best players - Ruan Pienaar, John Afoa, Johann Muller, Pedrie Wannenburg and then they have then Jared Payne, Stefan Terblanche and Simon Danielli on top of that.

It is unfair on Ulster but I understand why people see Ulster as the "foreign legion" (even if it isn't true).

red_stag wrote:

DOD wrote:Thats not like you stag...you are usually looking for us to buy players in....

I know yea but I am a big believer in Hanrahan and think that he can do a job, I actually still rate Mafi despite half the Munster fans turned on him, think Keith Earls is a great 13 and Barnes is a guy who can cover 12/13.

Why waste cash on a southern hemisphere signing who'll be gone by May and can't even play in the Heino.

Hanrahan is playing B&I Cup - big games coming up to reach the final that is in Ireland this year.

Its only halfway through the season and the knockout stages are upon us - Munster is down to 3 centres (Barnes, Earls & Mafi), which is very few considering that Earls has more than likely 4 rugby internationals to play as well and Barnes is a young player that needs to be minded.

Dougie's injury insurance money should cover the cost.

Otherwise, thare are 11 munster players listed as injured, with 7 on 6Ns duty and three coming back from injury (two of them playing their first games of the season). That accounts for about half the Munster squad!

They are not all our best players, though they are important. I would say Wannenburg is not as important as the other 3, but he is still brilliant. Pienaar would be our best probably, but to say Afoa, Muller and Wannenburg are our best players is a bit much.

Afoa is as important to Ulster as Botha is to Munster. In fact I would rather have our backup options than Archer. Muller is important but Stevenson is not that big a backwards step. Wannenburg could be replace by Henry with Faloon at 7 and that would probably be my favourite backrow Ulster could play.

Pienaar is our best player however. He is our Isa Nacewa.

Rory. As I say whether it is right or wrong there are a lot of people who see things that way.

It is about perception.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:They are not all our best players, though they are important. I would say Wannenburg is not as important as the other 3, but he is still brilliant. Pienaar would be our best probably, but to say Afoa, Muller and Wannenburg are our best players is a bit much.

Afoa is as important to Ulster as Botha is to Munster. In fact I would rather have our backup options than Archer. Muller is important but Stevenson is not that big a backwards step. Wannenburg could be replace by Henry with Faloon at 7 and that would probably be my favourite backrow Ulster could play.

Pienaar is our best player however. He is our Isa Nacewa.

Ferris & Best are really the only homegrown big names - changing the captaincy from Best to Muller doesn't give a good impression either.

While Botha & Wian are very important to Munster, POC & ROG (& quite a few other locals) still outshine them in their stature in the game.

Danny Barnes was good enough to play HC rugby and play in the league final last year. How come he has hardly played since Christmas? Is he injured?

Mickado wrote:Danny Barnes was good enough to play HC rugby and play in the league final last year. How come he has hardly played since Christmas? Is he injured?

No, I don't think so. He has played 16 games so far this season (same as Mafi). Earls was injured early on, so you might have seen a lot more of him.

His form did go down a bit which I think was probably more down to being overplayed a bit as he is still very young. Still, he is Munster's top try scorer with 4 which isn't bad considering he is playing all over the shop.

The Munster situation shows exactly why the proposed rule to ban NIQ injury recruitment is wrong. If Hanrahan isn't ready to be parachuted into a HEC quarter final, it could set back his development considerably if he was. Ulster had to draft (the promising but callow) David McIlwaine in to their HEC team with next to no experience - he was deemed to be out of his depth and has since left to play his rugby in Doncaster. Conversly Ulster drafted in Paul Emerick to cover wing and he did so poorly that when Gilroy replaced him he had the freedom of very low expectations.

One point worth making is that these guys are NOT being brought in as 'injury' cover. They are being brought in as short term replacements, which is a subtle but important difference. Squads are designed to cover injuries lasting several weeks, and that is the perfect time to call up the youngsters and understudies. However if the first choice player is out for months, an academy player may not be up to the rigours of playing at that level over an extended period. That is when an additional recruit has to be brought in, and since anyone available at short notice is very unlikely to be IQ, where can teams fill these gaps in their squad if not by signing NIQs on short term contracts?

BTW whatever happened Ivan Dineen?

red_stag wrote:Rory. As I say whether it is right or wrong there are a lot of people who see things that way.

It is about perception.

I think its more ignorance than perception really.

Has Laulala been confirmed?

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:Danny Barnes was good enough to play HC rugby and play in the league final last year. How come he has hardly played since Christmas? Is he injured?

No, I don't think so. He has played 16 games so far this season (same as Mafi). Earls was injured early on, so you might have seen a lot more of him.

His form did go down a bit which I think was probably more down to being overplayed a bit as he is still very young. Still, he is Munster's top try scorer with 4 which isn't bad considering he is playing all over the shop.

But if he's their top try scorer then why hasn't he been played since the first game of the year?

I rate Barnes, i'd like to see him getting more gametime.

MBTGOG - yes he is confirmed. Both him and James Downey. Apparently Rhys Ruddock said no to joining though.

Artful - not necessarily ignorant just seeing things a different way.

MBTGOG wrote:Has Laulala been confirmed?

Yes by any number of sources - here is one;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17032142

The Great Aukster wrote:The Munster situation shows exactly why the proposed rule to ban NIQ injury recruitment is wrong. If Hanrahan isn't ready to be parachuted into a HEC quarter final, it could set back his development considerably if he was.

I have to disagree with both points. I think we molly coddle players a little too much. I'd ask what if Hanrahan came in and had some great games. And the chances of that happening are higher than him having bad games.

Seems to work okay for every other home nation for their players who are U20.

Okay cool. Been out of the loop for a while.

I've seen Tokula before with both Waikato and the Chiefs. He's a handy player who runs good lines and is a finisher. Not totally sure about the signing but unlike Stag, with the way professional rugby is nowadays, you need more than 4 centres.

But Munsty we have the entire AIL to call upon.

I dont agree with this business of signing a new player every time somebody stubs a toe. Thats the whole business of being a province.

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:Danny Barnes was good enough to play HC rugby and play in the league final last year. How come he has hardly played since Christmas? Is he injured?

No, I don't think so. He has played 16 games so far this season (same as Mafi). Earls was injured early on, so you might have seen a lot more of him.

His form did go down a bit which I think was probably more down to being overplayed a bit as he is still very young. Still, he is Munster's top try scorer with 4 which isn't bad considering he is playing all over the shop.

But if he's their top try scorer then why hasn't he been played since the first game of the year?

I rate Barnes, i'd like to see him getting more gametime.

Earls needed gametime as he was just coming back from an injury. Barnes has been getting plenty of gametime - 15 games, 850 mins this season. He is only 22 and there is possibly another 16 games to be involved in this season. I'd say he will be starting 13 this weekend.

red_stag wrote:But Munsty we have the entire AIL to call upon.

I dont agree with this business of signing a new player every time somebody stubs a toe. Thats the whole business of being a province.

To be fair, I think these guys have done more than stub their toes.

Also, if there were players good enough in the AIL, don't you think they'd already have been snapped up?

The Great Aukster wrote:
BTW whatever happened Ivan Dineen?

Playing AIL for Cork Con - scored a try for them against Blackrock last weekend. Seems to be very injury prone.

red_stag wrote:But Munsty we have the entire AIL to call upon.

I dont agree with this business of signing a new player every time somebody stubs a toe. Thats the whole business of being a province.

All very well putting an AIL player in against the likes of Aironi, Connacht etc., but its not right to throw them in against the kind of teams that you come up against in the knockout stages of the heineken cup - its wrong to be putting lads in there who are training only part-time.

MBTGOG wrote:

red_stag wrote:But Munsty we have the entire AIL to call upon.

I dont agree with this business of signing a new player every time somebody stubs a toe. Thats the whole business of being a province.

To be fair, I think these guys have done more than stub their toes.

Also, if there were players good enough in the AIL, don't you think they'd already have been snapped up?

I remember the last backup player Munster brought in from the other side of the world. Toby Morland a scrumhalf. I'd say he got 10 min of gametime and at that time Connor Murray was probably int he academy and you had a load of decent AIL scrumhalfs like Gerry Hurley who surely wouldn't mind filling in for a match or two IF required.

profitius wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:

red_stag wrote:But Munsty we have the entire AIL to call upon.

I dont agree with this business of signing a new player every time somebody stubs a toe. Thats the whole business of being a province.

To be fair, I think these guys have done more than stub their toes.

Also, if there were players good enough in the AIL, don't you think they'd already have been snapped up?

I remember the last backup player Munster brought in from the other side of the world. Toby Morland a scrumhalf. I'd say he got 10 min of gametime and at that time Connor Murray was probably int he academy and you had a load of decent AIL scrumhalfs like Gerry Hurley who surely wouldn't mind filling in for a match or two IF required.

Conor Murray was 2.5 years younger than he is now and was probably just about making the bench for the Ireland U20s.

The difference is now that Munster take the B&I Cup seriously as a way to develop a team. I know there were some situations in the first year of the Cup that the youngsters were playing two games some weekends (for their club and Munster A).

Sin, there’s a few of us heading to Donnybrook on good Friday for the B&I QF. Are you going?

Mickado wrote:Sin, there’s a few of us heading to Donnybrook on good Friday for the B&I QF. Are you going?

I might actually - though normally I would be away down to my homeland

I'll have to see. It would be interesting to see what Gibbo will be like without drink (good friday) and drugs (amsterdam)

Bloody good Friday…

Mickado wrote:Sin, there’s a few of us heading to Donnybrook on good Friday for the B&I QF. Are you going?

I'll wave at you from the RDS.