Cheap PointsSpy rip-off - Miami Masters

Thanks a lot for this, News!

Great analysis and a very well written one!


PS. Can't you create a table here like you did on 606? (Though this way is fine, too.)

PPS. You should also change the font colour when adding a link in the text ("Andy Murray losing to a spoof version..."), cause it's not noticeable this way.

Great article TIIN

Glad to see you're obeying orders



:run1:

"Glad to see you're obeying orders"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yummy, I think Davie (administrator?) did that, not TITN...

BTW, are you watching the doubles? They just saved a break point on Murray's serve... Phew!
(And Andy's smiling - that's nice to see!)

A great article and excellent feature for the forum. I hope you can keep it going.

Oh


Yes - back to the doubles :run2:

And, Roddick is already out of the tournament!

So he'll fall to No.13 or... We'll see what Youzhny and Fish can do.

On a side note, Murray and Djokovic lost their doubles match . I really hoped they would win, for Murray's sake...

(I know this article isn't about the doubles, but both Murray and Djokovic were mentioned in it... <blush>)

Neither is this post, Green. But does someone want to do a Match of the Day thread for this tournie??

Green wrote:Thanks a lot for this, News!

Great analysis and a very well written one!


PS. Can't you create a table here like you did on 606? (Though this way is fine, too.)

Thanks.

As I said in the first post, this format is temporary; I just need to get my head around making the tables look pretty! You know, colouring the guys that have dropped places in red, and the ones that have risen in green. I've asked the admins about it, should get it sorted then hopefully.....

I'll edit the tables tomorrow (or later on today, as the case may be!), not much has changed, Roddick has, as you say, fallen at the first hurdle and dropped a minimum of 5 places as a result. Almagro won too, so he's gone up a place. I made a small mistake on Monfils too; nothing table changing but I accidentally gave him 10 points for a first round bye, which he shouldn't have because he isn't at the tournament at all. Again, i'll amend that later on.

This is the news, that was great analysis of the intricacies of the point system. So far Miami has been filled with upsets, Roddick and Murray both gone. i don't see Novak going out before the semis where either Sodo or Del Po should await, probably Robin because he has been doing really well this season. Still I see Djoko getting to the final either way. But in the master's series anything can happen the level of competition each round is so strong.

Updated, we have tables at last!

<applause> [we really need this smiley!]

I love the colours!

So if Del Potro beats Soderling today (which I expect him to do ), Murray remains No. 4... That should buy him some time until he - wakes up!

Alas, poor Roddick! I knew him Horatio: a fellow
of infinite jest...

Great addition to v2 TITN

TITN

Thanks ... the ups and downs of the rankings and points system have always been a mystery to a dummel like me...The colour coding (or idiot coding) is perfect .. your a star

Thanks.

I'm keeping an eye of Juan Martin del Potro as well; if he continues his good run i'll add an extra table for him. Sames applies for any other major movers in the Top 50.

If del Potro wins the tournament (unlikely, I know), he'll be back in the top 20.

Oh Pluurrlleeeze let DP win

TITN Have a Loved this (and Cogens) thread on 606 . I tend to only work out Andy's ups and downs its all my brain allows and your table stops my head from hurting.
PS Sky commentators said Soderling doesn't like the heat in Miami, come on Delpo Andy's counting on you

An excellent article. The table is inventive and helpful.

Inspecting the table I wonder is there an issue with Andy Roddicks performance? Is it poor form an injury or just chance. He is a year younger in age than Roger Federer so age can't be a primary factor.

It is also surprising that last year the then top four collectively performed relatively poorly:

Roger Federer (Fourth Round)
Novak Djokovic (Second Round)
Andy Murray (Second Round)
Rafael Nadal (Semifinals)

where each had a bye directly into the second round.

However apart from the misfiring Andrew Murray, last years misfortune must be this years opportunity with points to gain.

The thing is, David Ferrer has just won his match and has a bit of a chance here, he could be a dark horse. Coupled with that, he's also a very, very good clay court player. I know he got to the final of Rome last year and I think a semi at MC, so he has points to defend, but surely he could also have the chance to make ground?

Clay is not Murray's forte. Could he be threatened even by Ferrer here?

"Could he be threatened even by Ferrer here?"
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Nah! Ferrer can't get further than semifinals in Miami (I promise! ), and then he has too many points to defend on clay (apart from what you mentioned, he also got to the semis of Madrid!), at least before Roland Garros (only 90 points to defend in Paris).

He also got to the semis of Barcelona, but that one is non-countable: Ferrer's Rankings Breakdown.

Is Murray playing Monte Carlo? He could earn some points there...

According to his website his next outing is Madrid.

I suppose I have to ask the question - why? Geosynch.

He's hardly played any tennis for a couple of months and there could be points up for grabs in MC. He got to the semi's in 2009 and took a set off Rafa.

The best thing he can do right now is pick up the phone and grab a WC at least.

If the pattern from last year is going to repeat itself he needs some match time before the grass season.

Not much changed overnight!

Soderling has obviously definetly fallen down to 5th after losing to del Potro, opening a marginal chance for David Ferrer to move into the Top 5, being able to tie for 5th place..... should he win the tournament.

Djokovic's shock victory last night sees him open a 555 point gap between him and Federer.

Meanwhile, Mardy Fish is keeping the pressure on Youzhny and Roddick by comfortably beating Richard Gasquet. With a wide margin between him and Viktor Troicki, who also won (but has Djokovic in the next round), Fish has a great chance to make his way up the rankings should he get through the next few rounds; a semi-final place will see him rise to at least 13th. He will have to overcome del Potro and probably David Ferrer though......

Mardy Fish will soon be challenging Andy Roddick for the US number one spot. He could go to number one if he reaches the semi-finals of this tournament, but would first have to overcome a resurgent Juan Martin del Potro in the next round.

Mardy Fish is one round away now from a huge leap in the rankings! Up to 11th if he wins against Ferrer!

My dark horse totally disappointed. Again. I think I curse these poor souls, to be honest....

Mardy Fish up to 11th !! Is that allowed??

Depends on what David Ferrer thinks, I guess!

Berdych has struggled in all his matches, but he's still here. If he can make the semi finals then he's done extremely well, and will have defended most of those 600 points. It'll give him a good foundation to have a good go at the clay season, because he's going to need everything he can get from there to make up for a potential 1,200 point drop at Wimbledon!

Its interesting that you raise the pressure about points, picking out Berdych here as your example. I wonder just how much this plays on a player's pysche - if at all.

Now Rafa, who of course is way ahead on points and is the current ATP No.1 , always adopts a mental approach at the beginning of each year as putting himself at 0, with the effort being made to working towards being No. 1 at the year end, ie. he views each tournament as a means to win points because the total at the end of the year is what counts. I've read him before comparing it to the football season, and he's been speaking along similar lines at Miami ...

“I don't feel that I have to defend the points,” Nadal said after reaching the fourth round at the Sony Ericsson Open. “I feel in every tournament that I am going to play I have the chance to win points, not to lose points.”

“I think about the [year-to-date ranking] more than the ranking. I know I'm No. 1 in the ranking right now, but in the [year-to-date ranking] I am No. 6 this year. I didn't play for a month. For me every year I start from zero. Right now I am No. 6, and I would love to play well in the next tournaments and have the chances to be in better position.”

So he sees himself at being No. 6 right now and therefore is focussed to do better. This thread is, of course, about the ATP ranking points table and the mechanism for changes each week, but does Rafa's approach help keep him sane as a player? Would other players worry to much about their ranking points gained and lost?

The article from where I got the quotes also suggests its an acknowledgement from Rafa that he does risk losing the No. 1 ranking over the next few months, but his focus is about the end game.

Thoughts?

I think that is the right approach if one is No.1 in the ATP rankings, and No.6 in the ATP Race.

However, if one is, say, No.2 in the Rankings and No.1 in the Race, he should still think of himself as the No.2, if he plans to get to No.1 by the end of the season...

I believe that Mardy Fish now rises to number 11 in the world at the tender age of 29. His highest ever position and he is now the top ranked American player. Congratulations!

As the master card player would say, "GO FISH!"

Wooffie wrote:Its interesting that you raise the pressure about points, picking out Berdych here as your example. I wonder just how much this plays on a player's pysche - if at all.

Now Rafa, who of course is way ahead on points and is the current ATP No.1 , always adopts a mental approach at the beginning of each year as putting himself at 0, with the effort being made to working towards being No. 1 at the year end, ie. he views each tournament as a means to win points because the total at the end of the year is what counts. I've read him before comparing it to the football season, and he's been speaking along similar lines at Miami ...

“I don't feel that I have to defend the points,” Nadal said after reaching the fourth round at the Sony Ericsson Open. “I feel in every tournament that I am going to play I have the chance to win points, not to lose points.”

“I think about the [year-to-date ranking] more than the ranking. I know I'm No. 1 in the ranking right now, but in the [year-to-date ranking] I am No. 6 this year. I didn't play for a month. For me every year I start from zero. Right now I am No. 6, and I would love to play well in the next tournaments and have the chances to be in better position.”

So he sees himself at being No. 6 right now and therefore is focussed to do better. This thread is, of course, about the ATP ranking points table and the mechanism for changes each week, but does Rafa's approach help keep him sane as a player? Would other players worry to much about their ranking points gained and lost?

The article from where I got the quotes also suggests its an acknowledgement from Rafa that he does risk losing the No. 1 ranking over the next few months, but his focus is about the end game.

Thoughts?

I basically agree entirely with the guy.

Look at it this way: The last thing i'd ever want to do going into a tournament I won last year is think to myself 'Oh God, I won this last year, now I've gotta defend all those points". It's entirely negative thinking, which whilst I feel sports psychology is hugely over-rated, in this case I can see entirely why it would not only put you in a miserable mood for the tournament, but would also deter you from trying to win those you haven't already won!

Starting from 0 eliminates this issue entirely. It's definetly the best way of looking at rankings for players.

That is a very interesting perspective from Rafael but it doesn't surprise me as he is a very focussed and seems to have a great maturity of mind.

I remember his philosophy being called immature in another place when he first discussed it, Nore. But hey ... whatever works for you. Surely you must enter a tournament thinking about what you can win and how it pushes you forward to the end game, not stress yourself to death about what if you don't defend what you have and how it affects your ranking, and how you might slip because of it.

The No. 1 trophy is presented at the year end. There are no prizes for holding it for a couple of months mid-year.

The "great" never rest on their laurels or worry about their past disappointments. Each day is a new beginning with new opportunities.

Absolutely and that's what we hear time and again from Rafa. Working hard, doing his best and never taking any opponent for granted. You can't stand still and pat yourself on the back in any sport, you have to keep improving. And he has ... and still does.

News,

you didn't update this part of your analysis:
"If Djokovic loses in the next round (3rd round)..."

Green wrote:News,

you didn't update this part of your analysis:
"If Djokovic loses in the next round (3rd round)..."

Cheers, Green.

If Djokovic loses to Fish and Fed wins the tournament, he goes above Djokovic. If Djokovic makes the final then Federer cannot overtake him.

Just came here to check if your analysis is up to date...

I see that everything looks perfect and updated...

Seriously, thanks a lot for doing this!


PS. Have you thought of a new name, or is it gonna remain "Cheap PointsSpy Rip-off"?!

Green wrote:I see that everything looks perfect and updated...

Seriously, thanks a lot for doing this!


PS. Have you thought of a new name, or is it gonna remain "Cheap PointsSpy Rip-off"?!

No problem.

I'll think of yet another name as we go along. I'm thinking of something just as catchy as my effort at the Novak Djokovic fan thread title, which was disgracefully ignored.

Cheers TITN for this I'm turning into a right statto.

The thing is, I got in here by clicking the "last comment" thingy on the main board, but I think we need make sure we access this thread by the article title, otherwise I could have missed the good write ups you put together with all the information.

Wooffie wrote:He's hardly played any tennis for a couple of months and there could be points up for grabs in MC. He got to the semi's in 2009 and took a set off Rafa.

In case some of you haven't heard, Murray received a wild card to play Monte Carlo.