Low on Quality but High on Entertainment Value

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Maybe its just me but has there been an overall drop in the quality of the 6 Nations teams. Ireland, England and France look a shadow of their potential. Wales look good but even still are only winning narrowly. Italy are in transition with a new coach, new players and a new philosophy but its very much early days. Scotland have performances without any substance and have now lost 5 tests in a row.

On the other hand maybe its just me but is this not one of the most enjoyable 6 Nations in a long time. Ireland v Wales was genuinely the most entertaining 6 Nations game I have ever been to. It had it all - plenty of tries, big hits, foul play, a game that went down to the wire between two rugby rivals. England v Wales was the same - a very tight call between two big rivals. That game had everything - the line breaks, the defending, the anticipation as Strettle was crossing the line and the sheer excitement as to whether it would be red or white who would prevail. The icy French v Ireland fixtures were epic. I was in Stade de France when Pearson told us all to go home and the place was hopping. In the replay we were treated to a game of two halves - the storming lead by Ireland against the odds and the mighty comeback from France. England may have been able to go toe to toe with Wales but Italy ran them very close in their new Olympico Colosseum - for a moment I really thought they would defeat England as Benvenuti ran in under the posts. In relation to Scotland all we have to say is Hogg, Rennie and Denton!!!

It may not be the greatest quality - I can't see any team coming close to South Africa, Australia or New Zealand at the moment - but its been a great tournament so far. I think we will see a few more almighty match ups in the final two weekends. Watch out for Italy targetting a Welsh or Scottish scalp in Rome, Scotland trying to prove it to themselves with tries and results as well as the two mouth watering clashes; England v Ireland and Wales v France.

A lot of people have suggested there are "dead rubbers" left in the 6 Nations. . . . . . fat chance!!!

Maesteg wrote,
"Wales are a year further down the line is actually a generalisation.

Wales are nearly ten years further down the line than England in regards to youth development. We have been focusing very very hard on academies since we went regional and those academies are working and developing some very talented players that are ready to step up to International rugby straight out of the Under 20s.

England are not doing that, neither are Ireland, they don't have the same levels of talent coming through."

There may well have been a longer plan by Wales though that is debatable. My point is the difference to Wales has been the introduction of Priestland,Warburton,Faletau & North primarily (IMO) & that has happened in a year. you could say a fortunate crop of young players coming through at the same time.

Wales last year had very little attacking threat as I recall with your three quarters constantly crabbing across the pitch.

The comment about having less quality youngsters coming through is subjective but if U-20 results in the last 3 years for England compared to Wales is indicative you are clearly wrong in your interpretation & despite what a lot of posters say a lot of these successful youngsters are getting regular first team action because England have more clubs available for them.

Have to disagree with the OP a bit - Wales have played away to 2 teams who will give their all to defend their home land and come away with 2 victories a poor performance v the Scots but a 14 point victory - Make the judgement after the 5 games then you might have a fairer reflection there have been some decent games and some very good trys. In fact the quality is an improvement on last years 6 Nations, particularly at the top end

RubyGuby wrote:Have to disagree with the OP a bit - Wales have played away to 2 teams who will give their all to defend their home land and come away with 2 victories a poor performance v the Scots but a 14 point victory - Make the judgement after the 5 games then you might have a fairer reflection there have been some decent games and some very good trys. In fact the quality is an improvement on last years 6 Nations, particularly at the top end

Happens every year when your top - its a quality 6Ns when your below it's not.

Fact is the positions could easily be interchangeable because the games have been close. Enjoyable most definitely - better quality very debatable.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

The comment about having less quality youngsters coming through is subjective but if U-20 results in the last 3 years for England compared to Wales is indicative you are clearly wrong in your interpretation & despite what a lot of posters say a lot of these successful youngsters are getting regular first team action because England have more clubs available for them.

England do well at under 20s. That doesn't translate to many of these under twenties coming through at senior level.

Neither does it translate as results for the senior team. England are not as good a team as Wales are.

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

The comment about having less quality youngsters coming through is subjective but if U-20 results in the last 3 years for England compared to Wales is indicative you are clearly wrong in your interpretation & despite what a lot of posters say a lot of these successful youngsters are getting regular first team action because England have more clubs available for them.

England do well at under 20s. That doesn't translate to many of these under twenties coming through at senior level.

Neither does it translate as results for the senior team. England are not as good a team as Wales are.

I agree. However, England were better than Wales last year & have changed the coaching & playing staff this year & therefor playing catch up.
Given the many changes to England, they are doing more than ok & should improve at a rate of knots particularly as I hope & expect with the introduction of our very successful youngsters.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

The comment about having less quality youngsters coming through is subjective but if U-20 results in the last 3 years for England compared to Wales is indicative you are clearly wrong in your interpretation & despite what a lot of posters say a lot of these successful youngsters are getting regular first team action because England have more clubs available for them.

England do well at under 20s. That doesn't translate to many of these under twenties coming through at senior level.

Neither does it translate as results for the senior team. England are not as good a team as Wales are.

I agree. However, England were better than Wales last year & have changed the coaching & playing staff this year & therefor playing catch up.
Given the many changes to England, they are doing more than ok & should improve at a rate of knots particularly as I hope & expect with the introduction of our very successful youngsters.

The impact of new players hasn't really been as successful as it was for Wales though has it.

As you mentioned earlier, Wales weren't much good last year then with the introduction of four or five players under the age of 22 they became RWC semi finalists and are leading the six nations.

Which confirms what I wrote earlier, that Wales are producing better young players than England and Ireland.

Morning maes,

I think the players that have come through and had biggest impact (Warburton aside) are the like of Lydiate, Faletau, Davies, Priestland, North and Williams.

Now they are players from two Regions who have had to give them game time out of neccesity due to budgest etc. I wonder how much game time these lads would have got if they had been at one of the other Regions.

I think England youngsters are clearly out there but are they getting the chance at the next level in the AP?

This post is brilliant.

Wales are the only team in any form at all and they'll win (probably with a GS) by a country mile.

The rest of the participants (like me) are as mad a box of frogs. And that simile is not directed at the French.

France themselves need to rebuild and I'm surprised that PSA is falling into the same hefalump trap that SCW did in 2004 by clinging on to old, formulaic selection routines.

Ireland. Hmmm. They really do - and inevitably will - miss BOD. And that is the mammoth in the room. Like every one else, they have new, exciting young turks - but like England's MJ, the talismanic effect of BOD is immeasurable.

Scotland are a basket case. You can't play international rugby with five up-to-standard players and ten journeymen.

Italy shouldn't even have considered as a candidate for the 6Ns over Argentina ( ). They are the most dependable representation of the irrationality of a 6Ns closed franchise.

England. SL's team has despite the proclaimed good intentions, shown no sign of genuine evidence of raising their game. In fact I doubt that he has made any further progress that MJ would have done at this juncture. The central problem in TW12 is the decision-makers not the team. And no amount of head-hunters will hide that unfortunate, grim fact.

Portnoy wrote:This post is brilliant.

Wales are the only team in any form at all and they'll win (probably with a GS) by a country mile.

The rest of the participants (like me) are as mad a box of frogs. And that simile is not directed at the French.

France themselves need to rebuild and I'm surprised that PSA is falling into the same hefalump trap that SCW did in 2004 by clinging on to old, formulaic selection routines.

Ireland. Hmmm. They really do - and inevitably will - miss BOD. And that is the mammoth in the room. Like every one else, they have new, exciting young turks - but like England's MJ, the talismanic effect of BOD is immeasurable.

Scotland are a basket case. You can't play international rugby with five up-to-standard players and ten journeymen.

Italy shouldn't even have considered as a candidate for the 6Ns over Argentina ( ). They are the most dependable representation of the irrationality of a 6Ns closed franchise.

England. SL's team has despite the proclaimed good intentions, shown no sign of genuine evidence of raising their game. In fact I doubt that he has made any further progress that MJ would have done at this juncture. The central problem in TW12 is the decision-makers not the team. And no amount of head-hunters will hide that unfortunate, grim fact.

Good and accurate post Portnoy mate, very kind to the welsh, let's hope your proclamations are correct but we never believe it until the hang over after when it comes to Grandslams.

Though your comments on Italy are very harsh. They are not far from being higher up the table. They can beat any team in the NH at home.

With regards England the coaching may have "proclaimed good intentions", and the complications behind the scenes are a factor but there is not the talent that there once was available.

The quality this year has simply been affected by the overall RL phase game - there is not much variety anymore. As far as the teams go;
England - scratch combinations and new coaching set up ensures a confident style is not possible.
Ireland looked confused and lacking an agreed approach.
Scotland might have found a playmaker to use their consistent forward effort.
Italy haven't found a playmaker for their consistent forward effort.
Wales the current best at the RL phase/blitz game (look like a newer version of Wasps) have won close games tinged with controversy.
France have same players but new coaching set up looked confused like Ireland.

Interesting, yes. At times exciting, yes. Good quality performances, no.

It really depends on how your quantifying performances!

The way I see it defencive abilities, and breakdown work have been superb. There are a lot of very good back row combinations and 'spoiling' has become as important to defence as first up tackles. In this sense I'd say performances have been superb.

Attacking intent has been slightly lacking, but with 3 new head coach'sand 2 under pretty heavy pressure are we really surprised teams are playing slightly more conservative? When you consider defencive organisation being, for me the best in the world from Wales and Ireland (potential shown from the English) this is hardly a shock.

If your trying to compare the 6N to the type of game played in the SH then you are being one eyed, and comparing 2 different entities. Watching a lot of Super rugby recently the game is much more pleasing on the eye, but for me is lacking in defencive nous. Now i'm not trying to spark the age old debate, but I have become obsessed with comparisons. There are so many areas where not only super teams but Tri nation teams lack, I am amazed they havn't been sussed sooner, but they do have much higher skillsets across the board. Watching a prop throw a 20 metre pass at full pelt is a beautifull thing, but then watching him humiliated at the next scrum kind of put things in perspective!

Is this the first wum by red stag?

red_stag wrote:Maybe its just me but has there been an overall drop in the quality of the 6 Nations teams. Ireland, England and France look a shadow of their potential.

God forbid Wales should be leading the table, with Ireland under performing for an Irish poster to say it's not an enjoyable 6 Nations this year...

The over all quality of rugby this year has been good, some matches were ruined by bad weather, but I think in terms of entertainment it has been good, with a lot of tight matches that could of gone either way.

The gap between France, Ireland, England and Wales is the bounce of a ball or a referees interpretation, that makes for a very hard and tricky 6 Nations, it's better we have that, than one or two teams smashing the rest like we had in the 90's!

AlynDavies wrote:

red_stag wrote:Maybe its just me but has there been an overall drop in the quality of the 6 Nations teams. Ireland, England and France look a shadow of their potential.

God forbid Wales should be leading the table, with Ireland under performing for an Irish poster to say it's not an enjoyable 6 Nations this year...

The over all quality of rugby this year has been good, some matches were ruined by bad weather, but I think in terms of entertainment it has been good, with a lot of tight matches that could of gone either way.

The gap between France, Ireland, England and Wales is the bounce of a ball or a referees interpretation, that makes for a very hard and tricky 6 Nations, it's better we have that, than one or two teams smashing the rest like we had in the 90's!

Good to hear a more balanced Welsh point of view

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Good to hear a more balanced Welsh point of view

Treasure it Trev, the beer will kick in soon, and I'll be as biased and one eyed as your average English poster!

AlynDavies wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Good to hear a more balanced Welsh point of view

Treasure it Trev, the beer will kick in soon, and I'll be as biased and one eyed as your average English poster!

No I'm sure I get more level headed after a few swirlys

AlynDavies wrote:

red_stag wrote:Maybe its just me but has there been an overall drop in the quality of the 6 Nations teams. Ireland, England and France look a shadow of their potential.

God forbid Wales should be leading the table, with Ireland under performing for an Irish poster to say it's not an enjoyable 6 Nations this year...

The over all quality of rugby this year has been good, some matches were ruined by bad weather, but I think in terms of entertainment it has been good, with a lot of tight matches that could of gone either way.

The gap between France, Ireland, England and Wales is the bounce of a ball or a referees interpretation, that makes for a very hard and tricky 6 Nations, it's better we have that, than one or two teams smashing the rest like we had in the 90's!

Weather my @rse

Wales have been by far they better team and deserve to be top

Two away wns against Ireland and England and a Scottish thumping.

Get a grip.