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A Fast Serve Is Not Always The Best Serve

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Veejay
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Post by hawkeye Mon 12 Mar 2012, 3:29 pm

The quality of a serve is often measured by a speed gun. The reasoning being the faster the better. Nadal in his latest interview explains why he believes this may not always be the case. Sometimes it may be smarter not to put effort into serving fast.

"I served very fast during all the U.S. Open because I felt that I had the perfect feeling on the serve,” he told reporters at the BNP Paribas Open at Indian Wells. "But the week before in Cincinnati my serve didn't work that well. Because at that moment I was serving fantastic. I had the feeling that to win the U.S. Open I had to serve faster. Worked well in that tournament, but in general, I don't need to serve that fast.

"The problem when I am serving fast, the percentage is going a little bit down. The problem is if I don't serve the perfect serve the ball come back faster, so I need to play a little bit slower game to have the control of the point. And serving that fast I can have more free points, but my mentality and my style of game doesn't go to this way. When I am serving that fast, I tried in another times, but I feel like I am losing a little bit the control of my whole game. That's why I am trying to serve as fast again with the right percentage, and trying to start the point the right way to have the control of the point with my forehand, or try to hit the first ball in a good position with my forehand. Today I can go on court and serve 132 miles with not many problems. The problem is probably is not the right tactic for my game."


http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=16816&zoneid=25

Serving fast carries its own risks. A first serve percentage can go down when a player puts that extra energy into it. It's also more difficult to place such a serve therefore some control is lost. Without placement even the fastest serve can become predictable. Also there is always the risk that an opponant can use the energy that the server has put into the ball on their return. A serve can be a winner in itself but most of the time a good server wins by taking control of most of their service points. As a server the high percentage play is to ensure this rather than try and pull off a few service winners.

Nadal says he can serve at 132mph but chooses not to. He must know what he's doing because the only player qualified to argue with Nadals tactic is Federer and he doesn't always find it easy to handle Nadals serve.

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Post by JuliusHMarx Mon 12 Mar 2012, 3:47 pm

Hmmm. "I beat Djoko serving fast at the USO 2010, but since then I've deliberately slowed it down, to play to my strengths, and lost to him every time"

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Post by Tenez Mon 12 Mar 2012, 4:00 pm

1 - He can hit hard with more aces but from what I understand that would mean more 2nd serve too and therefore as one is as good as his second serve nadal chooses to max his chance of a 1st serve by slowing it down. In short he cannot hit hard, accurate and consistent 1st serves like a good server. Nothing new here, we knew it.

2 - The advantage of serving a returnable serve is that it engages in rallies, long rallies when knowing Nadal, and that is where Nadal's weapons, power and stamina, can best make the difference with his opponents.

Yes Nadal, Toni rather makes perfect sense.

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Post by hawkeye Mon 12 Mar 2012, 4:03 pm

As Nadal said his serve worked well in that tournament but in general he doesn't feel the need to serve that fast. He doesn't. He has beaten Djokovic more times than he has lost to him without serving as fast as he did in the 2010 US final.

When he has lost to Djokovic IMO it wasn't because he didn't serve fast. Although if I can remember correctly in a few of those losses he did serve badly... but that is a different thing... and Djokovic played well.

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Post by hawkeye Mon 12 Mar 2012, 4:26 pm

Tenez wrote:1 - He can hit hard with more aces but from what I understand that would mean more 2nd serve too and therefore as one is as good as his second serve nadal chooses to max his chance of a 1st serve by slowing it down. In short he cannot hit hard, accurate and consistent 1st serves like a good server. Nothing new here, we knew it.

2 - The advantage of serving a returnable serve is that it engages in rallies, long rallies when knowing Nadal, and that is where Nadal's weapons, power and stamina, can best make the difference with his opponents.

Yes Nadal, Toni rather makes perfect sense.

Tenez.

It's getting the balance right between hitting hard, being accurate and being consistant. Tactically a player can choose what the emphasis should be placed on. Nadal has chosen accuracy and consistance above speed. That doesn't mean he isn't a "good server" in fact if this tactic is effective he is not only a good server but a clever one.

Nadal is trying to take control of the point with his serve. I doubt that he intends to use his serve in order to engage in long ralleys...

What Nadal says does make sense. What do you mean by "Yes Nadal, Toni rather makes perfect sense."?

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Post by noleisthebest Mon 12 Mar 2012, 4:33 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:Hmmm. "I beat Djoko serving fast at the USO 2010, but since then I've deliberately slowed it down, to play to my strengths, and lost to him every time"

Wink

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Post by noleisthebest Mon 12 Mar 2012, 4:35 pm

I must say when I read the story on Tennis.com last night I could not believe it. Nadal must be the only player under the sun who doesn't care for a fast serve.
I mean, why serve great and have a quick point, when you can push the ball in and rally 6 hours....
This one is on a par with the one when he bumped into a chair in the hotel lobby during AO...

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Post by Tenez Mon 12 Mar 2012, 4:35 pm

Because though Nadal could try to win easy points with serve or flatter shots he is better off dragging the match into a tough fight cause this gurantees him more chance to win.

Djoko does the same too, especially versus Nadal. They don't want to cut corners and purposely look for long rallies (less so Nadal though v Djoko) cause they think they can outlast any opposition. MUrray does the same.

An ace is great if when needed but killing the legs of the opponent is much more rewarding. This is why those players are extremely consistent. Doesn't matter whether Harrison, Isner, Petzchner, Anduja or else can win a seet or 2..at the end, like Wilander said after the Isner match...it's not close. The win is guaranteed in the 4th or 5th set.

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Post by hawkeye Mon 12 Mar 2012, 4:40 pm

noleisthebest wrote:I must say when I read the story on Tennis.com last night I could not believe it. Nadal must be the only player under the sun who doesn't care for a fast serve.
I mean, why serve great and have a quick point, when you can push the ball in and rally 6 hours....
This one is on a par with the one when he bumped into a chair in the hotel lobby during AO...

But Nadal is one of the best players ever under the sun so what do all those other players know Wink

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Post by CAS Mon 12 Mar 2012, 5:42 pm

Federer's is not the fastest and neither was Sampras's, so its a fair point but they would still look for the ace, unreturnable or shot ball first and foremost

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Post by lags72 Mon 12 Mar 2012, 5:50 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:Hmmm. "I beat Djoko serving fast at the USO 2010, but since then I've deliberately slowed it down, to play to my strengths, and lost to him every time"

I'd be surprised if any contribution appearing on this particular thread will match this one sentence in terms of efficiency of expression.

And with that in mind, I'm certainly not about to try .......

thumbsup thumbsup

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Post by hawkeye Mon 12 Mar 2012, 5:52 pm

Of course it's always nice to get an ace or unreturnable but most service points are not won so cheaply. A good serve is one that wins the most points. Like Nadal says that will be when the server gains control of most service points and is therefore able to win them. A fast serve is not necessarily the best way to do this.

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Post by Veejay Mon 12 Mar 2012, 8:48 pm

Accuracy is more important then pace in my opinion,especially when taking the different surfaces into consideration.Pace gives you the edge on fast surfaces,but accuracy gives you the edge on all surfaces
How effective a serve is doesn't just depend on pace
As a stand alone shot Roddick has one of the best serves in the games, but isnt as effective in comparison to Federers who opts more for accuracy then pace ( i.e Wimbledon 08) where as Roddicks opts for pace over accuracy
As a result Roddicks once almost un returnable serve due to pace is probably more predictable today due to placement or accuracy,which for a while became a liability as he completely relied on the pace of his serve so when the balls started coming back,he was left shell shocked and didn't know what to do
I know the major difference being that Rogers ball toss is the same,but its a good example of how much more effective taking less pace off the ball in favour of accuracy can be
While I agree with Nadals analysis,I don't buy his story about his serve
Theres been so much inconsistencies coming from Nadal about his serve,none of it adds up
The change of grip was how he improved his serve in 2010,then he changed his racket to improve his serve,especially to help increase the pace and power ( when he could have just changed his grip) then there was something about the racket frame and now he is telling us he has always been able to serve like that,but he just opts not to
If he could always serve like that,why did he had to change his grip to help improve his serve and increase pace,why did he even need to improve his serve if the ability to serve like that was always there?
If he could always serve like that why abandon a serve thats clearly very effective and giving you a lot of success to go back to his old way which isn't helping him win as much
I believe his serve was key to him winning the U.S Open,if you have a serve like that in your arsenal,I have a hard time believing that you wouldn't at some point use it when you're losing to a guy 7 times in a row and nothing else you tried has worked
Further more,if Nadal could actually consistently serve at that pace,you would see the odd serve or 2 clocking up those miles or at least glimpses of it especially under intense pressure,but under pressure his accuracy deserts him
The biggest flaw in this story is how Nadal says he takes pace off for accuracy,when you stop and access how accurate his serve is,well its not exactly the most accurate well placed serve out there..gets the job done but isn't really a safety net,something he relies on to get himself out of trouble.
The thing about choosing accuracy over pace is that it has to be precise,otherwise you may as well just go for pace ( if you're able to) Why take pace off if the accuracy isn't precise
So while in theory what he says does make sense, it doesn't make sense when applying it to him
I thought Nadal and his team were looking at ways to shorten the points/rallies,win cheap points but instead of building on his "hidden talent",the consensus seems to be to just get the ball in play so he can win the point in his comfort zone by grinding the point out,not a wise game plan against Djokovic
If thats the case then theres clearly nothing wrong with his knees,if there was he'd be using every means available to him to change his game

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Post by Tenez Mon 12 Mar 2012, 10:04 pm

Yes I agree with that. Nadal's serving inconsistencies have much less to with strategies than being slam fit or not.

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Post by Veejay Mon 12 Mar 2012, 10:49 pm

Tenez wrote:Yes I agree with that. Nadal's serving inconsistencies have much less to with strategies than being slam fit or not.

He needed an explanation,which to his credit actually does make a lot of sense,just not in his case-too much conflicting stories
Pity the Nadal camp couldnt think of using this explanation from the very beginning,change of grip Laugh
If players could really add 10-15 mph by changing their grip,why is no one else changing their grip?
I gotta say what amazes me the most is how Nadal could for more or less 1 tournament ( U.S Open 2010) debut his hidden faster serve because he feels fantastic and that he had the feeling to win the title,but then in other tournaments suddenly feels like he needs to serve slower to have more control over the point
Isn't that a contradiction,he basically proved that to win he needed to add pace,his serve was a winning formula but then choses to take pace off because it doesn't suit his style? 2010 U.S Open must have been way out of his comfort zone but yet somehow miraculously it didn't stop or affect him from winning
He certainly didn't mind serving fast with a lower % then because he did it,so what changed? Did 1st % become more important to him then winning the title?
Anyway,I am glad he decided he wants to serve fast again,he looks like he's been working hard on that,I hope he is able to combine that with a better % but even more so I hope he has a better explanation for when he decides to serve slower again Very Happy

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Post by lydian Tue 13 Mar 2012, 8:56 am

I suspect he's spent February working on the serve. He knows he has to start getting cheaper points. If you've got a more extreme grip for serving, moving to continental grip would add more speed....most players already have this grip so they can't change. Anyone remember Chang upgrading his serve similarly...?
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Post by Veejay Tue 13 Mar 2012, 9:44 am

lydian wrote:I suspect he's spent February working on the serve. He knows he has to start getting cheaper points. If you've got a more extreme grip for serving, moving to continental grip would add more speed....most players already have this grip so they can't change. Anyone remember Chang upgrading his serve similarly...?

But did Changs serve improve and stay that way,or did it only surface at certain tournaments?
So did Nadal change his grip back again after the U.S open?
It would seem stupid to to go through the whole process of change and adjustment to improve your serve and then once you do,you decide the change doesn't coincide with your game even though its bringing you great success.So Im having a hard time buying that,
One thing I am certain of is that changing to continental grip would consistently help add pace to your serve,so how do you explain the inconsistency,what happened to the improved serve or the continental grip?.
Regardless his story still doesn't add up,his serve improved because of the change if grip,then bad to the way it was before but now he says hes always been able to serve like that yet he has changed rackets to help improve his serve showing little signs of improvement
If he lookings at other ways to improve his serve,why cant he go back to champing his grip,and if he has always been able to serve like that,why cant he produce such pace at will? Why is he going to the process of changing his racket to improve his serve
The truth is if he could have served like that,he would have served like that for much if 2011.But suddenly he comes back on tour from his annual injury time off and he is rediscovering the pace he's been looking for
How did that happen,if the racket and other changes couldnt help much,what helped him improve his serve?
Maybe miracles do happen... Very Happy


Last edited by Veejay on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 10:05 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Tenez Tue 13 Mar 2012, 9:59 am

Exactly....and as expected that serve doesn't arrive end of september but early spring when the season really starts.

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Post by lydian Tue 13 Mar 2012, 1:19 pm

I just think he hasnt either had the confidence to keep hitting the serve hard, or it causes him shoulder niggles - after all its not his usual stroke.
But he needs to up it against Djoko, and I'm sure his February will have been working on tactics to make it harder for Nole given that no-one returns Nadal serve better. But he doesnt have to crack it at 135mph all the time anyway...its not exactly casuing him many problems outside Djoko is it? Although indoors he could do with a bigger serve too. And lets not forget he;s a lefty so you also dont need the same level of speed anyway.
I think he'll start to use it more when he's playing Djoko and use it selectively through events more but its not going to become a mainstay for him. But veejay, I know what you're trying to hint at and of course I dont buy it.
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Post by hawkeye Tue 13 Mar 2012, 3:07 pm

Veejay wrote:Accuracy is more important then pace in my opinion,especially when taking the different surfaces into consideration.Pace gives you the edge on fast surfaces,but accuracy gives you the edge on all surfaces
How effective a serve is doesn't just depend on pace
As a stand alone shot Roddick has one of the best serves in the games, but isnt as effective in comparison to Federers who opts more for accuracy then pace ( i.e Wimbledon 08) where as Roddicks opts for pace over accuracy
As a result Roddicks once almost un returnable serve due to pace is probably more predictable today due to placement or accuracy,which for a while became a liability as he completely relied on the pace of his serve so when the balls started coming back,he was left shell shocked and didn't know what to do
I know the major difference being that Rogers ball toss is the same,but its a good example of how much more effective taking less pace off the ball in favour of accuracy can be
While I agree with Nadals analysis,I don't buy his story about his serve
Theres been so much inconsistencies coming from Nadal about his serve,none of it adds up
The change of grip was how he improved his serve in 2010,then he changed his racket to improve his serve,especially to help increase the pace and power ( when he could have just changed his grip) then there was something about the racket frame and now he is telling us he has always been able to serve like that,but he just opts not to
If he could always serve like that,why did he had to change his grip to help improve his serve and increase pace,why did he even need to improve his serve if the ability to serve like that was always there?
If he could always serve like that why abandon a serve thats clearly very effective and giving you a lot of success to go back to his old way which isn't helping him win as much
I believe his serve was key to him winning the U.S Open,if you have a serve like that in your arsenal,I have a hard time believing that you wouldn't at some point use it when you're losing to a guy 7 times in a row and nothing else you tried has worked
Further more,if Nadal could actually consistently serve at that pace,you would see the odd serve or 2 clocking up those miles or at least glimpses of it especially under intense pressure,but under pressure his accuracy deserts him
The biggest flaw in this story is how Nadal says he takes pace off for accuracy,when you stop and access how accurate his serve is,well its not exactly the most accurate well placed serve out there..gets the job done but isn't really a safety net,something he relies on to get himself out of trouble.
The thing about choosing accuracy over pace is that it has to be precise,otherwise you may as well just go for pace ( if you're able to) Why take pace off if the accuracy isn't precise
So while in theory what he says does make sense, it doesn't make sense when applying it to him
I thought Nadal and his team were looking at ways to shorten the points/rallies,win cheap points but instead of building on his "hidden talent",the consensus seems to be to just get the ball in play so he can win the point in his comfort zone by grinding the point out,not a wise game plan against Djokovic
If thats the case then theres clearly nothing wrong with his knees,if there was he'd be using every means available to him to change his game

Veejay. I agree with your first sentance and so would Nadal. But then you argue with it yourself. Do you agree with this? This is after all what you said

"Accuracy is more important then pace in my opinion,especially when
taking the different surfaces into consideration. Pace gives you the edge
on fast surfaces,but accuracy gives you the edge on all surfaces
How effective a serve is doesn't just depend on pace"

Because if you do the rest of what you said doesn't make sense.

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Post by Veejay Tue 13 Mar 2012, 4:36 pm

What doesn't make sense?
The fact that I consider accuracy to be more important then pace but yet the comment was mostly about pace?
My opinion and Nadals serve are two different things .They aren't linked
My comments surrounding Nadals serve centres around the information that the Nadal camp release about his serve.Like most other information coming from that camp,a lot of it is inconsistent and contradictory
It doesn't add up.I believe is clearly a well thought out explanation that was preplanned to cool any suspicions surrounding how much Nadals serve will improve in the next few weeks
Its all fine to say he's always been able to hit big,but if thats true,why did he need to change grip to achieve that? He also apparently changed rackets for the same reason which didn't seem to result in much at the AO,perhaps he was still getting used to that extra 3 grams weight,or the shoulder injury he was going to be out on in Fedbruary played part ( LOL!!!) but if his 2011 serve is the result of the various changes he's made to improve his serve,Im dying to know whats behind his recent improvement.Why did changing rackets not make much difference but 4 weeks off tour did? If as he says he's always opted for less pace but has always been able to serve fast,why isn't he able to serve fast as will?
This latest story is basically a bizarre explanation as to why his serve improved in 2010 and then disappeared and why/how hes suddenly upping the pace again
I just wonder how he is going to spin this when he "decides" to take pace off his serve again Very Happy

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Post by hawkeye Tue 13 Mar 2012, 5:14 pm

Veejay

But you agree with Nadal! You both think that accuracy is more important than pace. That he hit some faster serves at US 2010 doesn't contradict this. He can hit at pace (as he showed) but he doesn't think its the best thing for his game.

Nadal doesn't have to explain any of this. It's a tactic. He's made no secret that he's always looking for improvement so this I presume will involve changes with tactic, changes with grip, changes with equipment and other technical changes.

"Cool suspicions, dying to know, bizarre explanation" It's quite obvious what your trying to imply. There is no evidence though. So what your implying could even be considered libel.

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Post by Henman Bill Tue 13 Mar 2012, 7:46 pm

Speed is one important element.
Sampras' serve was never the fastest, but was the best.

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Post by Veejay Tue 13 Mar 2012, 10:23 pm

hawkeye wrote:Veejay

But you agree with Nadal! You both think that accuracy is more important than pace. That he hit some faster serves at US 2010 doesn't contradict this. He can hit at pace (as he showed) but he doesn't think its the best thing for his game.

Nadal doesn't have to explain any of this. It's a tactic. He's made no secret that he's always looking for improvement so this I presume will involve changes with tactic, changes with grip, changes with equipment and other technical changes.

"Cool suspicions, dying to know, bizarre explanation" It's quite obvious what your trying to imply. There is no evidence though. So what your implying could even be considered libel.

I agree that in my opinion accuracy is more important then pace,but taking Nadals serve into consideration,in his case pace is clearly more effective then accuracy.I really believe his serve was key to winning the U.S Open and I believe he is fully aware of that,which is the reason why I think he's been looking at various ways to improve his serve ever since.Explain this to me,what happened to the change of grip,if he could add pace with the continental grip,what happened to the pace,and if he could always serve fast,why couldnt he just develop his natural ability instead of relying on technology to achieve that or even having to change his grip to begin with,and if he was really looking to improve his serve,why couldnt he just stick with the continental grip?
How can he benefit and improve that much from a change of grip in one tournament,and then using the same technique doesn't work a few weeks later?
So I agree with the theory but I think Nadal is just using it as an excuse/explanation
If he was taking pace off his serve for better placing,where is the accuracy or the improvement in his serve? Wouldnt we have seen him significantly improve that aspect of his game? Djokovic has been destroying Nadals service games,Novak has always been a good returner,but he's making Nadal look more and more predictable,but yet he is still willing to risk pace in favour predictability

The truth is Nadal is always serving to the best of his ability,because if he wasn't he would be really vulnerable as his serve lacks pace and accuracy.It takes over 30 seconds for him to psych himself and build momentum,seems like a bit of an anti climax to use that much mental intensity over rhythm,to produce an above average serve when apparently he is capable of so much more.Maybe that intense look on his face is him focusing and trying his utmost best to hold that ferocious lethal weapon back Very Happy
How do you justify sacrificing pace when youre failing to achieve the objective? His accuracy isn't improving and using this tactic hasn't given him the same kind of success .The truth is if he could serve faster he would be doing that,the fact that he hasn't even while being aided by the latest racket technology made available proves that he cant

My main argument is that if,as you say Nadal can hit at pace,why does he need to rely on changing his grip,changing rackets or increasing the weight of his racket frame to try to achieve that 163 MPH? Even when he made these changes there was hardly any improvement,so where is this ability to to hit at pace?
He claims his improved serve was down to changing his grip,now he is implying he's always been able to hit fast.Wheres the evidence? Even if we buy his argument that he can do it but he was choosing not to,we would see glimpses of that ability,but yet he isn't even showing glimpses of it relying on racket technology
I have no problem with Nadal using whatever means is allowed to improve,but don't one day say your serve has improved because you changed the grip and then claim you've always been able to achieve that pace and the contradict yourself by looking to technology to help achieve what you imply you can do naturally

What makes the change of grip so ridiculous is that with his above average serve,begin an elite pro athlete at the top of the game, he has only changed his grip to help improve his serve going on 25...wow
Boy he must have been kicking himself at all those lost opportunities,if only he grew up serving with that grip..probably kicking himself even more that the thought to change his grip only occurred to him half way through his pro career when Lydian says no one is adding pace to their serves cause they already use the continental grip.Seeing everyone else use a different grip on a daily basis clearly never triggered anything.Strange how we're to believe he changed his grip with the sole intent to increase pace,otherwise why change,why did he never use the continental grip sooner when he knew how much it could improve his serve
I believe if changing his grip could really add that kind of pace to his serve,he would have changed his grip ages ago

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Post by amritia3ee Tue 13 Mar 2012, 10:33 pm

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/9317366.jpg
Hows your day been Veejay? Sunny weather in London, hope that continues.
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Post by Veejay Wed 14 Mar 2012, 12:04 am

amritia3ee wrote:http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/9317366.jpg
Hows your day been Veejay? Sunny weather in London, hope that continues.


about as profound as paul mccartneys frog song...
bet you sing that song in the shower Yahoo
god if ever there was scary thought...

yeah we've been having lovely weather,why are you always commenting on the weather in london?
are the sun rays not making it that far?

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Post by amritia3ee Wed 14 Mar 2012, 12:18 am

I live in London Veejay.

Are watching the nadal match?
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Post by Veejay Wed 14 Mar 2012, 12:35 am

amritia3ee wrote:I live in London Veejay.

Are watching the nadal match?

i thought you said you live in newcastle,or is that where you're from?

nah i switched over,too much if a farce for my liking or attention


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Post by amritia3ee Wed 14 Mar 2012, 12:40 am

No I'm from India and I live in London.
You must have got confused.

Anyway back to tennis and nadal has hit more aces than Grannolers. What do you make of this key stat Veejay?
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Post by Veejay Wed 14 Mar 2012, 1:16 am

amritia3ee wrote:No I'm from India and I live in London.
You must have got confused.

Anyway back to tennis and nadal has hit more aces than Grannolers. What do you make of this key stat Veejay?

Precisely my point,but you wouldn't see any strange in that
If it was someone like Roddick or Karlovic its expected as they consistently do that,but Nadal is hardly someone you associate multiple aces with,he's gone from nothing to an extreme too fantastical to believe or realistically achieve in less then 4 weeks
I kinda pity you,I would find it insulting that someone could think i was that stupid that I would just buy everything he says no matter how contradicting ,conflicting or inconsistent it is

I am curious to hear your explanation of how he managed to turn into an acer in less then 4 weeks
Im not buying his recent comments,who in their right mind would for basically the entire 2011 take pace of their serve to improve their serve % if apparently they've always been able to serve aces like that?
Thats basically what he is saying


Last edited by Veejay on Thu 15 Mar 2012, 4:06 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark Thu 15 Mar 2012, 11:40 am

amritia, will you not answer veejay. I'm waiting for your answer Laugh
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Post by Tenez Thu 15 Mar 2012, 2:41 pm

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:amritia, will you not answer veejay. I'm waiting for your answer Laugh

I am not.

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Post by amritia3ee Thu 15 Mar 2012, 6:08 pm

'I am curious to hear your explanation of how he managed to turn into an acer in less then 4 weeks'
Is this what I am meant to answer. I assume Veejay means how did he turn into an 'acer' during February.

Veejay doesn't know his facts. Nadal only hit 3 aces against grannollers. I said how 'Nadal has hit more aces than Grannollers (at the time the ace count was 2-1 nadal) but did not specify the facts.
Veejay, comically suddenly assumed that nadal had hit loads of aces, and unleashed a rant, at the time of his post the ace-count was 2-1 nadal.
Comical post by veejay, although I do admit I was hoping he would fall for it when i posted how Nadal had hit more aces Laugh


Veejay: 'he's gone from nothing to an extreme too fantastical to believe or realistically achieve in less then 4 weeks'; at the time of writing nadal had 2 aces (1 more than his opponent and it was deep into the 2nd set) remember Laugh
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Post by hawkeye Thu 15 Mar 2012, 6:16 pm

One of the aces Nadal hit (if I remember correctly) wasn't an ace because it was fast. Nadal had been serving out wide repeatedly then for a crucial point he hit down the middle. Grannollers was caught leaning the wrong way. He was outfoxed not beaten by speed.

What better way to prove that "A fast serve is not always the best serve"?

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Post by Veejay Thu 15 Mar 2012, 7:35 pm

amritia3ee wrote:'I am curious to hear your explanation of how he managed to turn into an acer in less then 4 weeks'
Is this what I am meant to answer. I assume Veejay means how did he turn into an 'acer' during February.

Veejay doesn't know his facts. Nadal only hit 3 aces against grannollers. I said how 'Nadal has hit more aces than Grannollers (at the time the ace count was 2-1 nadal) but did not specify the facts.
Veejay, comically suddenly assumed that nadal had hit loads of aces, and unleashed a rant, at the time of his post the ace-count was 2-1 nadal.
Comical post by veejay, although I do admit I was hoping he would fall for it when i posted how Nadal had hit more aces Laugh


Veejay: 'he's gone from nothing to an extreme too fantastical to believe or realistically achieve in less then 4 weeks'; at the time of writing nadal had 2 aces (1 more than his opponent and it was deep into the 2nd set) remember Laugh
If Nadal hits one ace in a match its an achievement by his standards,3 +..wow..we're talking about breaking personal records here..dont expect it to stop there in the next few weeks
But as usual you're not looking at the bigger picture..for him to be able to achieve any of that,pace plays a big part,how do you add such pace in under 4 weeks when everything else you've tried didnt do the trick?
Change of grip resulted in a quick fix which had no long term improvement
Changing rackets didn't seem to do much either
But 4 weeks off tour seemed to do the trick

How did he do that ameritia?

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Post by Veejay Thu 15 Mar 2012, 7:41 pm

hawkeye wrote:One of the aces Nadal hit (if I remember correctly) wasn't an ace because it was fast. Nadal had been serving out wide repeatedly then for a crucial point he hit down the middle. Grannollers was caught leaning the wrong way. He was outfoxed not beaten by speed.

What better way to prove that "A fast serve is not always the best serve"?

You asked me about contradicting myself but what was the point of this article.Even though I agree with you that a fast serve is not always the best serve,why use an article which says the following "That's why I am trying to serve as fast again with the right percentage,"?

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Post by lydian Thu 15 Mar 2012, 7:41 pm

No veejay, he just didnt stick with the grip change before, he has said as much. Now I think he's going to stick to it more as he knows he HAS to get cheaper points. The racquet weight change was just a small change prior to his renewed grip change which he;s used Feb to get used to again. Why are you always looking for the devious answer with him.

Have you heard of Occam's Razor?
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Post by amritia3ee Thu 15 Mar 2012, 7:45 pm

Well Veejay when you posted your comment where you claimed Nadals serve was too 'fantastical', it was deep in the second set and he had only hit 2 aces.


Last edited by Gav on Thu 15 Mar 2012, 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : insulting another member)
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Post by Veejay Thu 15 Mar 2012, 7:50 pm

lydian wrote:No veejay, he just didnt stick with the grip change before, he has said as much. Now I think he's going to stick to it more as he knows he HAS to get cheaper points. The racquet weight change was just a small change prior to his renewed grip change which he;s used Feb to get used to again. Why are you always looking for the devious answer with him.

Have you heard of Occam's Razor?

Ex parsimoniae?
Im just asking simple questions,for me there is no reason to believe anything until it makes logical sense
No one here said Nadal went back to his previous change of grip,I don't recall him ever mentioning it either
But the biggest flaw in that is that he never changed his grip again losing to Djokovic 6 times in a row in 2011
Incredible isn't it?
Why not do that for cheap points when you're setting new records for losing?
Changing grips like this suggest its hardly a technical challenge for Nadal


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Post by amritia3ee Thu 15 Mar 2012, 7:52 pm

Well now he is changing his grip and weight if racket.
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Post by Veejay Thu 15 Mar 2012, 7:54 pm

amritia3ee wrote:Well Veejay when you posted your comment where you claimed Nadals serve was too 'fantastical', it was deep in the second set and he had only hit 2 aces.

if he is capable of more ( as youre suggesting) why don't we see it?
I still don't see an explanation Amritia..how does he do it?

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Post by amritia3ee Thu 15 Mar 2012, 8:06 pm

Well we'll see, won't we.
Will he serve better, he's serving quite well now.
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