Cirpiani showing form...great to see

This from RugbyPlanet site...

A 26-minute first-half effort from Danny Cipriani helped the Rebels to secure their first win of the season in a 30-29 triumph over the Force on Friday.


It was a fine showing from the soon-to-be Sale Sharks fly-half as he set up a try and scored one of his own before being taken off with a leg injury.


That cameo helped the Rebels into a 21-0 lead with just 22 minutes on the clock and from there they held off a spirited Perth outfit to claim victory.


The Rebels were struck by a double blow during the warm-up when James O'Connor and Richard King were both forced to pull out with repspective injuries. That meant a start for Lloyd Johannson and Julian Huxley while Nic Stirzaker and James Hilgendorf were called onto the bench. However, the absence of two of their key players did not hamper the Rebels as they put in an improved start from last week's against the Cheetahs.

It took just eight minutes for the hosts to get over the whitewash for the first score of the match when a flat ball from Cipriani found ex-Wasp Lachlan Mitchell, who had been moved from wing to outside centre at AAMI Stadium. That converted score was just the beginning of a purple patch for the Melbourne Rebels.


Cipriani seemed to be enjoying the freedom of running the backline without Wallaby star O'Connor outside him and when the bulky Johannson crossed six minutes after Mitchell, the home crowd were lapping up the good start.

It was about to get better as when Mark Gerrard showed good skills down the right wing, the veteran looked inside to find Cipriani on hand. The Englishman had a clear run to the line and then performed a celebratory dance. It was his last offering as the number ten had strained a hamstring in the act of scoring.


Not quite sure about the "celebratory dance" part with a strained hammy! Hope he did not aggravate the injury or worse yet cause it in his dance.

I hope his hammy recovers quickly.

I hope that his form continues to improve through the rest of the supers and with Sale.

We cant afford to just shed players of his attacking talent.

We just need him to make his tackles and sort out his attitude and we could be in business?

Youngs (in form), Cipriani (in form) Barrit, Tuilagi, Ashton (in form), Johnny May, Foden.

.......

Will be on the lookout for the youtube footage of this game.

As Lancaster pointed out he doesnt care whow well hes playing, he has to prove he isnt a complete t1t too.
Didnt Andy Goode also get some good reviews when he played for teh Sharks?

And what a surprise, the minute hes had a good game he gets injured. I do have some symptahy for him in that area.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:As Lancaster pointed out he doesnt care whow well hes playing, he has to prove he isnt a complete t1t too.
Didnt Andy Goode also get some good reviews when he played for teh Sharks?

And what a surprise, the minute hes had a good game he gets injured. I do have some symptahy for him in that area.

Agreed on all counts.

I don't care how well Cips plays, he isn't anywhere near the england 10 shirt! Maybe an option at 15

10s
Flood
Farrell
Hodgson
Myler
Ford
Heathcote
Burns
Lamb
Cipriani

15
Foden
Brown
---
Armitage?
Abendanon
May
Cips

Bathite wrote:I don't care how well Cips plays, he isn't anywhere near the england 10 shirt! Maybe an option at 15

10s
Flood
Farrell
Hodgson
Myler
Ford
Heathcote
Burns
Lamb
Cipriani


15
Foden
Brown
---
Armitage?
Abendanon
May
Cips

Let's see. I think that at his best he can force higher than that!

I also believe that we must rehab and bring back into the fold : Armitage (both of them)

We cant just shrug our shoulders we need these players!

We don't need Delon and we don't need Cips, when both on form, still would be 2/3rd choice for England and thats discounting any discipline issues.

Steffon is a different argument though, in cracking form and one of the few true 7s we have. I'd love him to be involved again, Saull isn't up to it and Wallace, Seymour, Kvesic, Mercer havn't got the experience yet.

I dont know about him not being close to the 10 shirt in England. If he can perform well then he is very much in line for it. He just has to stay out of trouble and focus on his rugby. He is certainly a very talented player.

Cips could be the dark horse given SL doesn't seem to trust Flood (as Jonno didn't), and Farrell can't currently get Eng's back 3 into the game.

Id be happy if he did prove he could cut it and would be better than any of the other current candidates.
I do worry that he will hang aound like Henson did with the Wales squad and stiffle the intrnational development of backup and alternatives.

England have huge presource sin the professional ranks. Its not like they will be short of options, so he will have to prove a point to get back in the squad. If he does then good for England, if he proves to devleope into a player and a aman better than Flood Farrell Burns Ford Heathcoate and a cupasoup then in theory England should have a bloody good fly half on their hands.

Steffon is a must back in the England fold. He must go to SA.

If he can perform well then he is very much in line for it. He just has to stay out of trouble and focus on his rugby. He is certainly a very talented player

Therein lies the problem...is he capable of doing that?

The problem with CIps is his defence...now that was Hodgsons problem...but Mr Gustard has sorted that out...wonder if he could sort Cipriani's defence out aswell.

I think that he is capable of staying out of trouble Geordie, well i hope he is.
His defence may not have been the best best but i have heard that he has been working hard on it and with that valuable SH experience, could very well prove a huge bonus to England

Well we shall see.

At present though we have a few different options for the SA tour..which is nice...despite the inexperience.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Steffon is a must back in the England fold. He must go to SA.

Is he contractualy available for all 4 AIS and the full nations period? Nope? Come back home then we can talk.
England are investing time and energy in a number of young "proper " 7s. It would be a bit of slap to them ( and an admitance of failure) to bring in a failed player who has shown no comitment to winning back his England place by choosing a big money move to France over the EPS.
Someone was also posting about how great Haskells doing too in the S15, well he needs to make sure hes available long term if he want sto go to SA too. The summer tour isnt just about results now, its about the future of the England team, and part of that is morale. The whole Lancaster ethos goes up in smoke if he ditches his capatin for a guy who wishes hed never left France and came to England in the first place.

England will have to live without the cabbage patch kid.

England are investing time and energy in a number of young "proper " 7s. It would be a bit of slap to them ( and an admitance of failure)

Who?

Saul - Failing miserably.
Kvesic - When he actually does get a game its at 8??!!??
Wallace - He's looking a decent prospect yes

Triangulation wrote:This from RugbyPlanet site...

A 26-minute first-half effort from Danny Cipriani helped the Rebels to secure their first win of the season in a 30-29 triumph over the Force on Friday.

Here in lies the problem. This time he was stopped by injury ("whilst scoring" apparently, though he did a little dance afterwards...), but that's by the by. His problem isn't a lack of skill and talent, his problem is a lack of discipline and consistency. I'm glad he's playing well at the moment, but he needs to play well for a good few games, the same for anyone else trying to play for England. If he plays well for sale before Xmas he may have a shout for the next six nations.

LOADS of "ifs" but dammit it's Friday!

Dare to dream of this backline at RWC2015....

9 Youngs (in form), 10 Cipriani (in form with defence sorted out), Ashton (in form but more to the point - in a team making linebreaks!) 12 Tuilagi ( having been developed similarly to Nonu ) 13 Joseph 14 Johnny May 15 Foden.

If he can keep out of trouble, stay injury free and play the good rugby we all know that he is capable of then i can see him being there or thereabouts next 6N.

He wont make the SA tour.

eirebilly wrote:with that valuable SH experience

I would question how valuable it has been. I think that playing in a competitive Super Rugby team is one thing, but that playing for a struggling side that finished bottom is quite another. Has he really been able to develop his game, or has a large part of it been about damage limitation, acting more like a 2 year hiatus?

When I've seen the Rebels play they've tried to run the ball a lot, they haven't been negative. In some games they've struggled for possession and to get the defence together.

I think Cipriani will have benefited hugely to be honest.

Tri it won't matter by 2015 George Ford will be 23 and be the England 10. His kicking from hand is simply brilliant and yet he has the ability and vision to stand flat and make plays. At only just 19 he's a rough diamond but what a diamond.

Cips is a good 10 that has some flaws. It's a brave decision to go to Sale as Diamond will demand a lot of him.

Notch wrote:When I've seen the Rebels play they've tried to run the ball a lot, they haven't been negative. In some games they've struggled for possession and to get the defence together.

I think Cipriani will have benefited hugely to be honest.

If that's the case, then fair enough. I haven't seen the Rebels play this year, but whenever I saw them last year they were pursuing a territory and kicking game.

I guess the only way to judge if the experience has advanced him or not is when he lines up for Sale and we can compare him to how he performed previously at AP level.

With players like Beale, O'Connor, Cipriani and Vuna all in the team, they won't be playing a territorial and kicking game that's for sure!

formerly known as Sam wrote:Tri it won't matter by 2015 George Ford will be 23 and be the England 10. His kicking from hand is simply brilliant and yet he has the ability and vision to stand flat and make plays. At only just 19 he's a rough diamond but what a diamond.

Cips is a good 10 that has some flaws. It's a brave decision to go to Sale as Diamond will demand a lot of him.

England should be in a very strong position by 2015 at FH, with Farrell, Burns, Ford and Heathcote all likely to be serious options, and Flood and Cipriani also in the mix.

Sale will be a much more conservative team you would think, I hope they use the arrival of Richie Gray and Cipriani to kick start the club. Start throwing the ball around.

Here are highlights of the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9uwEmAshZY

Cipriani is looking good tbf. No way the Rebels play a conservative game! Cipriani right up on the gainline, they're running well from deep- good win for the Rebels. Cipriani is a great option for England to have. A very different alternative to Farrell.

I wouldn't say Sale have been conservative at all this season, Diamond has very much already kicked the club into gear since taking over, they've been pretty agressive, and with only 3 sides having scored more tries than them.

Given Diamond's ethos and the new signings I do think that will be even more the case next season though.

I've always though Sale played an attacking game. The past few seasons they've been near the bottom of the table, so naturally you play a more conservative game.

Notch wrote:Here are highlights of the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9uwEmAshZY

Cipriani is looking good tbf. No way the Rebels play a conservative game! Cipriani right up on the gainline, they're running well from deep- good win for the Rebels. Cipriani is a great option for England to have. A very different alternative to Farrell.

3:00- 3:25 hes still a t1t

Youre right about him offering the opposite of Farrell there though

I watched the match where Cipriani played. And it reinforced to me that the England style and his natural style are very different (this is putting aside character or behavioural issues). He likes to play aggressive up on the gain line style. As we know, England have traditionally liked their out halves to play at depth. This is kind of similar to using a sports car to pull a garbage trailer. The styles clash at a basic level. And may not be reconcialable. I do think he was a pretty handy fullback for Wasps. If he can regain his speed, this might not be a bad option for Cipriani.

But before we start planning an England jumper for him, let's give him the season in Dunedin, than see him at Sale. In other words, a long way to go, but positive signs, finally.

I love this

https://youtu.be/h9uwEmAshZY?t=9m1s

Lovely set up on the first try

Shame he still seems a little immature

He can't just come back here and walk into the EPS or even the Saxons. He has an awful lot to prove to get near the hard work shown by Farrell, Flood, Burns, Ford etc. Many rungs on that ladder for Mr Cipriani.

I'd still like to see him do well in a Sale shirt, though.

EnglishReign wrote:He can't just come back here and walk into the EPS or even the Saxons. He has an awful lot to prove to get near the hard work shown by Farrell, Flood, Burns, Ford etc. Many rungs on that ladder for Mr Cipriani.

I'd still like to see him do well in a Sale shirt, though.

True but we are never going to complain about having another competitor for the EPS slots

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Notch wrote:Here are highlights of the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9uwEmAshZY

Cipriani is looking good tbf. No way the Rebels play a conservative game! Cipriani right up on the gainline, they're running well from deep- good win for the Rebels. Cipriani is a great option for England to have. A very different alternative to Farrell.

3:00- 3:25 hes still a t1t

Thought he looked pretty handy till he went off. The sign for me of a good player in the Super 15 is what the commentators say about them (this is obviously for when i can't watch games to form an opinion myself). Last season they were basically saying how rubbish he was and what a liability in defence he is (which in the games i saw of him was very true). Seems like he may have picked up some form and perhaps some of the new signings and the fact that they are a stronger side now has helped him show what he's capable of.

Quote of that commentary team has to be "Danny Cipriani, great rugby player, terrible dancer"

beloved,

couldnt really see from the TV angkles but the sign of a forward pass in the S15 is an Aussie commentator saying "that was really flat"
But yes no question he looked confident and effective and demonstrated a range of skills in that highlight reel. Certainly the game changed when he went off. Not a bad sign for him or England in the long term.

But then I got to watch Flood in the Tigers game last night. Kicking, running, passing and tackling spot on a real all round performance. Hodgson had another good game for Saracens, and Burns scored a heck of try at the weekend and looking at his stats ( I only saw highlights of the game) had a stormer. Add in Bowden as wel, they all hit over 80% kicking.
They are Farrells comeptiton right now, Cipriani may get into the mix next season but he'll start a way down the pecking order.

Cipriani remains a joke tackler - he is the one man standing between Humphreys and the title of worst tackler in World rugby.

At the top level you cannot hide that.

AS a Wasps supporter (obviously) I got to see Cips at his best and that is very very good. Sure, his defence isn't good, but we always managed to cover that and he was a gamebreaker.

As to attitude, yes, he's been a pratt and needs to focus on rugby more & partying less, but I think he's just pretty immature & hopefully has grown up a bit.

No question, Cips on best form would be a major asset to any team and I hope he fights his way back into conention for England.

Mind you, even as a fan, I couldn't suppress a smirked when I heard about Josh knocking him cold in training. Aparently Josh had a go about him not taking tacklig practice seriously, he made some smart*ss remark and - lights out!

I don't know why people keep going on about Cipriani's defence. Cooper is probably the worst in the world, O'Gara is a terrible tackler, Morne Steyn same as O'Gara, Freddie Burns isn't a good tackler. If you're going to use a player focus on his strengths, that's what teams like Australia and New Zealand do. Maybe we should learn to do the same up north

gowales

Totally agree. Wasps managed fine - it's just a factor to take into account like any other, pace, handling skills, offloading etc.

Trouble is, there is a whole rugby macho thing about tackling, which I kinda get, but it's far too exaggerated.

O'Gara, Steyn and Burns are all better than Cipriani in the tackling department.

Cooper I agree

But is it not Englands way to find the faults first...rather than look at the positives?

Do we not desire a strong defence first then whinge about our lack of attacking flair....

Its called being English.

Difference is that Australia dont have a choice, they are stuck with Cooper because their player pool is so smal. They tolerate his laziness and bad attitude because hes a talented player. Thing is if had signed up for the All Blacks he wouldve been forced to become a true great, or not play.

We could easily fiocus on Farrells positives and ignore the fact hes incapable of walking forwards letting alone running with the ball. On that basis Cipriani doenst even come into it, England have a supreme player already.

With Cipriani its not just that he doesnt tackle well and is nt a physical player, its his application thats wound people up in the past. He hasnt taken well to criticism or shown the right attitude. Coaches wnt to see players trying, if someones slacking off it can spread like a cancer and pee off those who are busting a gut ( Lewsey). Equally someone can try as hard as they like but if they have zero ability should get dumped too.
Lancasters England is built on players who buy in and work hard. They wont want a guy who waltzes in and demands to do his own thing, and only bother with the aspects of the game he enjoys. If Cipriani still has that attitude then no thanks.

Leave the dancing to the all blacks and Henson. Maybe a little swan dive and hug off your team mates then get back and get on with the game ratehr than telling everyone how great you think you are.

Peter...ther is some confusion here because it is also well documented how hard Cips trains. He works on his sprinting with Margo Wells and is often the last person to leave doing extra kicking practice etc. Plus he does not drink (apparently) so is very much dedicated. But then you have the celebrity girlfriends and late nights at nightclubs. Plus his undoubted ability to annoy almost everyone - he must be a real pr**k. So I think it is not how hard he works but more his ability to upset team mates that matters.

hugehandoff wrote:Peter...ther is some confusion here because it is also well documented how hard Cips trains. He works on his sprinting with Margo Wells and is often the last person to leave doing extra kicking practice etc. Plus he does not drink (apparently) so is very much dedicated. But then you have the celebrity girlfriends and late nights at nightclubs. Plus his undoubted ability to annoy almost everyone - he must be a real pr**k. So I think it is not how hard he works but more his ability to upset team mates that matters.

Spot on.

He is enigmatic to the public and quite possibly the world's biggest pr**k to his team mates and coaches.

Word on the street was that he disobeyed coaches when ordered to do drop goal routine pratice. Does that ring any bells?

Yep his application may be hard on some aspecxts bnut not all. He got punched by Lewsey for not taking tackling seriously in practise, and fell out with the england coaches for not wanting to work on what they wanted him to do. He then took his surgery early rather than playing for the saxons, and then took a break and went to Aus rather than staying in England to play and earn his place back.
Its that " i know better" and " Ill do what I want to do not what Im asked to do" attitude that has annoyed people. The celebrity thing shouldnt be an issue so long as he remains focussed when on th pitch, but certainly was with Johnson ( even owing an expensive car wound him up).

Of course you also get guys like Shane Warne who was fat lazy and obsessed with his looks but also one of the greatest sportmens of his generation.
So maybe yes, there is a case for saying that England and the English mentality to sports is bad at getting the best from people like Cipriani.

Ben Foden also has a celebrity gf/wife and is a self confident back (people who hang out with rugby players) but they are chalk and cheese seemingly.

But Foden isnt in the papers every other week stealing bottles of grog from nightclubs, getting knocked out by his team mates etc...

Its that " i know better" and " Ill do what I want to do not what Im asked to do" attitude that has annoyed people

Which is odd because I can't see Steve Diamond accepting that at Sale. Anything like that and Cips will be in a dejavu moment with Diamond playing the part of Lewsey. Maybe Cipriani has grown and started to understand that he doesn't always know best. He clearly wants to concentrate on 10 (presumably why Tigers lost interest in him) and improve his game. Sale will be a good place to do that.