The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Cribb v Molineaux. A fight for the ages?

+3
John Bloody Wayne
sodhat
Mind the windows Tino.
7 posters

Go down

Cribb v Molineaux.  A fight for the ages? Empty Cribb v Molineaux. A fight for the ages?

Post by Mind the windows Tino. Wed 18 Apr 2012, 3:02 pm

What has a fight that happened over 200 years ago got to do with 'modern' boxing? Well, probably not all that much but there are definitely strands of the Cribb - Molineaux battle that run through boxing history to this very day. This particular fight is ingrained in the very fabric of the sport and even though the characters change and the methods evolve, there are aspects of a bare knuckle fight from the 19th century that still ring true today.

Picture the scene, it is a bitterly cold December in 1810, the rain is coming down in sheets and an angry looking sky is more than matched by 10,000 angry fans looking for blood as their pugilist hero, Champion of England and 'de facto' Champion of the World, Tom Cribb gets ready to face Tom Molineaux, an illiterate but fast talking American slave who is scheduled to be Cribb's next sacrificial lamb. The whole spectrum of Georgian society is there, with Lords and Princes sharing the same turf as prostitutes and pickpockets to see the biggest fight in history. Not only is Molineaux a fast talking braggart, he is black, meaning he surely must fall at the feet of the supreme white champion? But things are rarely as they seem in the world of boxing, regardless of what century we are viewing...

Molineaux, who had arrived in London in the winter of 1809 as a freed slave and son of a prizefighter, had one intention, to meet and defeat the greatest fighter to walk the earth. Tom Cribb had mythical status amongst the fight cognoscenti and his feats were fast becoming legendary for a guy who was not yet 30. Here was a monster that trained by punching the bark from trees, had survived being crushed by a 500 pound crate of oranges at a harbour and could absorb huge amounts of punishment when he wasn't unleashing his own thunderous blows or utilising his pioneering tactical savvy. He had already beaten the legendary Jem Belcher twice, firstly in a brutal 41 round marathon, and then crushing Belcher in rematch two years later. In between this, Cribb had easily dispatched the giant Bob Gregson. Cribb had subsequently slipped into semi-retirement, not because of any erosion in his skills, but because there was no-one to challenge his dominance.

None of this mattered to Molineaux, the brash young upstart who called himself the Champion of America having won many prizefights in New York before coming to England, the undisputed centre of pugilism at that time. He spent much of his time frequenting the taverns and pubs in London, telling the incredulous crowds what he would do to Cribb if the champion ever agreed to fight. It was at this time that Molineaux met Bill Richmond, who himself had been born a slave before making it to England and becoming a prizefighter. Richmond, the 'Black Terror' had previously fought a 24 year old Cribb, losing in 90 minutes. The defeat weighed heavily on Richmond who, having educated himself and adopted English manners, took the young Molineaux under his wing soon after he arrived in London. They couldn't have been more different, with the cool, intelligent and articulate Richmond the polar opposite of the uneducated and short-tempered Molineaux, but they were united in their colour and a burning desire to beat Cribb.

Richmond took it on himself to get fights for his young protégé, arranging bouts under the brutal, exhausting and dangerous Broughton Rules. Eventually, Molineaux was to meet Tom Blake, a well respected bare knuckle fighter who had already given Cribb a punishing, but ultimately losing battle in 1805. He was a formidable fighter and was backed by the great Tom Cribb himself. The bout was a disaster for the watching fans who wanted to see the slave put firmly in his place. Under Richmond's supervision, Molineaux had become a fearsome fighter, combining raw strength with a more refined style. He punished Blake mercilessly, ending the fight in the 8th round when Blake couldn't make it back to 'scratch' before the allotted 30 seconds. Molineaux's victory was sensational and he was now more famous than almost any pugilist outside of Cribb himself. The white powerbrokers of English pugilism were horrified. The thought of a black American being Champion of the World was too much to bear and the pressure for Cribb to re-establish white, English dominance over the crown was enormous.

Richmond was busy behind the scenes arranging the bout with Cribb, whilst Molineaux paraded his new found fame in fancy clothes and keeping up his rhetoric in the bars around London, antagonising the white boxing fraternity at any opportunity. The fight was finally arranged and so we drift back to that cold, harsh and wet night in December for a monumental battle....

The fight was predictably brutal, punishing and shrouded in controversy. By the 19th round, legend has it that their faces were so badly beaten that the only way to distinguish them was by the colour of their skin. The action had been back and forth, with both men inflicting mighty blows and heavy punishment on each other. In the 28th round, Molineaux is said to have landed a decisive blow that knocked Cribb out. In the chaos that ensued, some of Cribb's seconds rushed the ring and distracted Richmond and Molineaux, crying out that the American was holding metal in his hands to make his blows harder. Whilst Richmond protested his mans innocence, Cribb got back to his feet and made it back to scratch so the fight could continue. Perhaps intimidated by the vociferous and snarling crowd, the referee let the fight go on, with both fighters rallying over 12 more ferocious rounds before Molineaux collapsed in the 40th round, utterly exhausted and his face a mess. Cribb was declared the winner and still the Champion pugilist of all England.

Cribb and Molineaux did fight again nearly a year later, but Cribb, inspired by the performance of his redoubtable challenger first time up, trained harder than ever. Molineaux, on the other hand, had spent the intervening period eating and drinking too much and spending half his money on prostitutes. The fight was fought with half the intensity of 1810, with Cribb knocking out his under-cooked opponent in the 11th round. Cribb went down as a legend of pugilism, whereas Molineaux spent the rest of his days drinking himself to oblivion, finally ending up in Galway, Ireland where he died at the age of 34.

So how does it relate to now? Well, the fight cemented a cast of characters that have survived the ages. The young and cocky challenger, the experienced champion, the less than straight manager, corrupt officials and a successful fighter ending up broke and destitute. Ring any bells? Of course it does, we see it in every generation and will see it for as long as the sport exists. What of the racial element to the fight? Well, exactly 100 years later we see Jim Jeffries, the supreme white athlete and in the minds of most, still the Champion of the World, take on Jack Johnson, the black upstart who delighted in taunting the white establishment. The results may be different but the context remains the same. Seventy years on from that, we have Cooney v Holmes, Minter v Hagler and Kaylor v Christie, all fights that were marred by racist elements. Even the last few years we have heard vile racist language from modern legends like Hopkins and Mayweather.

The people may change, the techniques may change and the sport goes through an organic evolution, but the very DNA of boxing doesn't really alter as much as we like to think. Here we are, 200 years later, still complaining of corruption, racism, bemoaning fallen fighters and lauding our heroes. The lines become blurred but the script remains the same. Yet somehow, and against all odds, the sport endures and so does our love for it. Although why this is, who knows!

Mind the windows Tino.
Beano
Beano

Posts : 20960
Join date : 2011-05-13
Location : Your knuckles whiten on the wheel. The last thing that Julius will feel, your final flight can't be delayed. No earth just sky it's so serene, your pink fat lips let go a scream. You fry and melt, I love the scene.

Back to top Go down

Cribb v Molineaux.  A fight for the ages? Empty Re: Cribb v Molineaux. A fight for the ages?

Post by sodhat Wed 18 Apr 2012, 3:29 pm

clap

It's a fascinating view in to the past this story. I came across it in Budd Schulberg's 'Ringside' a while back and remember reading (I think) the effort they had to put in to get the fight on because the police kept attending to shut it down!

sodhat

Posts : 22236
Join date : 2011-02-28
Age : 35
Location : London

Back to top Go down

Cribb v Molineaux.  A fight for the ages? Empty Re: Cribb v Molineaux. A fight for the ages?

Post by Mind the windows Tino. Wed 18 Apr 2012, 3:33 pm

sodhat wrote: clap

It's a fascinating view in to the past this story. I came across it in Budd Schulberg's 'Ringside' a while back and remember reading (I think) the effort they had to put in to get the fight on because the police kept attending to shut it down!

There was so much stuff I had to leave out as well, mate. Could have doubled the word count with the amount of info that didn't make the cut. Plus I had writers cramp.

Having said that, if I had known it would be so well received, I would have made more effort......

Thanks anyway, sodhat. About time you were back posting on here and not that silly WWF stuff.


Last edited by Mind the windows Tino. on Wed 18 Apr 2012, 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I love fullstops)

Mind the windows Tino.
Beano
Beano

Posts : 20960
Join date : 2011-05-13
Location : Your knuckles whiten on the wheel. The last thing that Julius will feel, your final flight can't be delayed. No earth just sky it's so serene, your pink fat lips let go a scream. You fry and melt, I love the scene.

Back to top Go down

Cribb v Molineaux.  A fight for the ages? Empty Re: Cribb v Molineaux. A fight for the ages?

Post by John Bloody Wayne Wed 18 Apr 2012, 3:39 pm

Great write up of the tale, Tino. Sometimes boxing/pugilism seems to bring out a raw instinct in people, something that might never go away in any generation. This could be why there are parralells between the modern game and a fight from 200 years ago when Windy was in nappies.

Unfortunately people will sometimes treat each other differently due to skin colour, even though one day it was match fixing to keep the champ white, and the other it was outbursts about "whiteboys" and robbing fighters for money instead of colour.

John Bloody Wayne

Posts : 4460
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : behind you

Back to top Go down

Cribb v Molineaux.  A fight for the ages? Empty Re: Cribb v Molineaux. A fight for the ages?

Post by sodhat Wed 18 Apr 2012, 3:41 pm

I'm always around, keeping an eye on things and there have been some quality articles from yourself and others.

It's the end of the UCPL that sent me into hiding. I'm still too devastated to address my issues.

sodhat

Posts : 22236
Join date : 2011-02-28
Age : 35
Location : London

Back to top Go down

Cribb v Molineaux.  A fight for the ages? Empty Re: Cribb v Molineaux. A fight for the ages?

Post by Rowley Wed 18 Apr 2012, 3:45 pm

Excellent write up Tina of a fight that is consistently fascinating even now, have always wondered what might have been had Molyneux got the win all the reports suggested he deserved first time round, am not convinced his reign would have lasted much longer because his taste for wine and women did seem to be just a little too strong but having a black world champion nearly 100 years before Johnson may have removed some of the obstacles Jack encountered.

Rowley
Admin
Admin

Posts : 22053
Join date : 2011-02-17
Age : 51
Location : I'm just a symptom of the modern decay that's gnawing at the heart of this country.

Back to top Go down

Cribb v Molineaux.  A fight for the ages? Empty Re: Cribb v Molineaux. A fight for the ages?

Post by Mind the windows Tino. Wed 18 Apr 2012, 3:47 pm

sodhat wrote:I'm always around, keeping an eye on things and there have been some quality articles from yourself and others.

It's the end of the UCPL that sent me into hiding. I'm still too devastated to address my issues.

It hit us all hard, buddy.

Thanks for the thanks. There have been some excellent articles from jeff, Chris, manos and others, but for every decent one there is another Khan/Cleverly thread where not a single new or interesting thing gets posted. Ho hum.

Mind the windows Tino.
Beano
Beano

Posts : 20960
Join date : 2011-05-13
Location : Your knuckles whiten on the wheel. The last thing that Julius will feel, your final flight can't be delayed. No earth just sky it's so serene, your pink fat lips let go a scream. You fry and melt, I love the scene.

Back to top Go down

Cribb v Molineaux.  A fight for the ages? Empty Re: Cribb v Molineaux. A fight for the ages?

Post by Rowley Wed 18 Apr 2012, 3:49 pm

Cheers Tina, just wait till the George Godfrey thread drops, never does to be too cocky but think this one could be heading to double figures responses wise.

Rowley
Admin
Admin

Posts : 22053
Join date : 2011-02-17
Age : 51
Location : I'm just a symptom of the modern decay that's gnawing at the heart of this country.

Back to top Go down

Cribb v Molineaux.  A fight for the ages? Empty Re: Cribb v Molineaux. A fight for the ages?

Post by Mind the windows Tino. Wed 18 Apr 2012, 3:50 pm

rowley wrote:Excellent write up Tina of a fight that is consistently fascinating even now, have always wondered what might have been had Molyneux got the win all the reports suggested he deserved first time round, am not convinced his reign would have lasted much longer because his taste for wine and women did seem to be just a little too strong but having a black world champion nearly 100 years before Johnson may have removed some of the obstacles Jack encountered.

Yep, it would have made Johnson slightly less interesting, I guess. Maybe people would have focussed more on his record as champ rather than his colour.

Agreed on Tom's taste for the ladies and booze though. If he went off the rails having lost to Cribb, I can only imagine the carnage he would have caused had he got the win he probably deserved.

Mind the windows Tino.
Beano
Beano

Posts : 20960
Join date : 2011-05-13
Location : Your knuckles whiten on the wheel. The last thing that Julius will feel, your final flight can't be delayed. No earth just sky it's so serene, your pink fat lips let go a scream. You fry and melt, I love the scene.

Back to top Go down

Cribb v Molineaux.  A fight for the ages? Empty Re: Cribb v Molineaux. A fight for the ages?

Post by Mind the windows Tino. Wed 18 Apr 2012, 3:51 pm

rowley wrote:Cheers Tina, just wait till the George Godfrey thread drops, never does to be too cocky but think this one could be heading to double figures responses wise.

You'll get at least one from me. Even I don't understand a word you have posted.

Mind the windows Tino.
Beano
Beano

Posts : 20960
Join date : 2011-05-13
Location : Your knuckles whiten on the wheel. The last thing that Julius will feel, your final flight can't be delayed. No earth just sky it's so serene, your pink fat lips let go a scream. You fry and melt, I love the scene.

Back to top Go down

Cribb v Molineaux.  A fight for the ages? Empty Re: Cribb v Molineaux. A fight for the ages?

Post by 88Chris05 Wed 18 Apr 2012, 3:59 pm

Superb stuff, Tino. The fact that the history of boxing, more than any other sport, always seems to share some kind of link politically or socially to any era you wish to choose will always be one of the reasons why I love it so much, and that notion is outlined brilliantly by your good self here.

I'm in full agreement that his less than monastic lifestyle and the desperate search for a great white hope which would have ensued would have meant that Tom's reign would never have been Sullivanesque, but considering the obstacles in the way of Johnson, it's phenomenal to think that a whole century earlier someone had already stood on the very brink of achieving the feat which gave 'Papa Jack' his place amongst the immortals of boxing.

Cracking stuff.
88Chris05
88Chris05
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 9652
Join date : 2011-02-16
Age : 36
Location : Nottingham

Back to top Go down

Cribb v Molineaux.  A fight for the ages? Empty Re: Cribb v Molineaux. A fight for the ages?

Post by HumanWindmill Wed 18 Apr 2012, 4:06 pm

What a fascinating and utterly superb article.

Thanks for that one, Tino.

HumanWindmill
VIP
VIP

Posts : 10945
Join date : 2011-02-18

Back to top Go down

Cribb v Molineaux.  A fight for the ages? Empty Re: Cribb v Molineaux. A fight for the ages?

Post by Mind the windows Tino. Wed 18 Apr 2012, 4:07 pm

Thank you, gents.

I think it is the political/social aspect that I find the most interesting now, Chris. I genuinely can't think of another sport that has the capacity to link these themes as obviously as boxing can. All sport has its heroes and villains, but there are so many characters in boxing that seem to transcend into something beyond their sport.

It is just absolutely riddled with metaphors for life.

Mind the windows Tino.
Beano
Beano

Posts : 20960
Join date : 2011-05-13
Location : Your knuckles whiten on the wheel. The last thing that Julius will feel, your final flight can't be delayed. No earth just sky it's so serene, your pink fat lips let go a scream. You fry and melt, I love the scene.

Back to top Go down

Cribb v Molineaux.  A fight for the ages? Empty Re: Cribb v Molineaux. A fight for the ages?

Post by Seanusarrilius Wed 18 Apr 2012, 4:08 pm

Great read!

Seanusarrilius
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 5145
Join date : 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Cribb v Molineaux.  A fight for the ages? Empty Re: Cribb v Molineaux. A fight for the ages?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum