Scrum halves and box kicking

Seeing more and more of these and they're starting to annoy me.

They can be effective especially at turn over and you want a quick counter attack but WHY when you are not under pressure and you 10 is in perfect position would you box kick.

Just watched the Ulster Leinster game, there was a great shot of Sexton throwing his hands in the air when Boss put a big kick out on the full. I wonder if this is a case of the scrum half wanting to call the shots or if coaches are giving them carte blanche to do so.

Well it depends what the 9 wants to achieve with the kick in the first place.

Sometimes the 9 will do a box kick for his blindside wing to chase as it gives the wing time to gain speed by the time he is parrallel to the box kicker (at the moment of the kick) who will be closer to the ruck or scrum than the flyhalf who is standing deeper, even 5 meters less to chase the kick can be the difference between chasing the kick successfully enough to regain possession or failing that the opportunity to put pressure on the opposing reciever.

Sexton probably threw his hands in the air more for the poor execution than the fact that he kicked the ball.

It is also just to vary play, the opposition ready to defend Sexton, so by getting Boss to control the play (albeit in the case you are explaining execution was poor) it provides hesitation.

It's the kick and hope aimless kicks that annoy me where nothing is achieved and passing it out to 10 would be the better option maybe is a mix of poor decision making, poor communication

I agree with you on using it to vary the play however when its being used too much it looses effectiveness and becomes easy to read by the oppo.

In the case I mentioned Sexton was looking for the ball and would have been under no pressure from chasers. I also don't think that Boss would have got more distance/better territory

Having watched the Newcastle v Sarries game it really made me wonder why Sarries would take an age constructing a crocodile of players to get their SH away from the other side. This surely telgraphs the intent and I think this takes the edge off the effectiveness of any box kick. Having said that I've noticed a real improvement with our (Chiefs) play since we've limited it's use along with a lot of other kicking. It might be riscky to run the ball but it's a lot more enjoyable to watch and gets better rewards. Our team is playing with a lot more freedom as well.

Moorsman wrote:Having watched the Newcastle v Sarries game it really made me wonder why Sarries would take an age constructing a crocodile of players to get their SH away from the other side.

England is also guilty of doing that a lot, it was oticable in the six nations how long it took them to get the ball away.

This is a pet peeve of mine. It is mostly done badly and even when done well there's only a 50/50 chance of retaining possession. It's usually so hard to get the ball back I rarely think that it's worth the chance. This is definitely the move most responsible for most of my howls of frustration when watching rugby.

biltongbek wrote:

Moorsman wrote:Having watched the Newcastle v Sarries game it really made me wonder why Sarries would take an age constructing a crocodile of players to get their SH away from the other side.

England is also guilty of doing that a lot, it was oticable in the six nations how long it took them to get the ball away.

But if you don't get it away quickly in the first place does it matter how long it takes overall? (other than the fact it's irritating and boring). If you haven't got the ball away before the defence has reset it doesn't get 'more' reset the longer you leave it. You do however allow your scrum half not to rush it.

But Hammer, that is the big question, you are ready to kick, your forwards have bounded and fanned in a V formation around the ruck, the defences are set, what are you waiting for?

What's the rush?

Well I suppose there is always a game to be won, isn't there?

Of course but there's no tactical benefit to rushing it if the ball is already slow. The key point is getting it out in the first place, once that's slow then it doesn't matter (of course refs will start penalising none perfect rucking to discourage it or class it as time wasting).

I don't like it and it's annoying but I don't think it's tactically poor (again as long as the ball is slow, deliberately creating slow ball is stupid))

I am not saying it is tactically poor, but ut becomes a habit, it is counter productive for getting conditioning right for quick ball.

Fair point

biltongbek wrote:

Moorsman wrote:Having watched the Newcastle v Sarries game it really made me wonder why Sarries would take an age constructing a crocodile of players to get their SH away from the other side.

England is also guilty of doing that a lot, it was oticable in the six nations how long it took them to get the ball away.

I'm watching the Bulls now and they're doing that a hell of a lot too