Roger Lewis to Meet Regional Bosses

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'Welsh Rugby Union chief Roger Lewis is to meet the nation's regional powerbrokers to discuss the findings of a financial report into the professional tier.

The review by accountants PricewaterhouseCoopers was commissioned amid fears over the regions' viability.

The four regions have since imposed a £3.5m salary cap and a host of Test stars have decided to leave Wales .

"I would like a more centralised approach from the WRU," said Lewis.

"It's a question of what does that mean and how far does it go."

The WRU chief executive will meet backers, chairmen and senior officials from the Ospreys, Cardiff Blues, Newport Gwent Dragons and Scarlets at 0800 BST on Wednesday, 2 May in Swansea.

Lewis say he has "made no secret" of his desire for the WRU to have a greater say in the game's running.

And in April, he told BBC Sport Wales: "There's only so many things we can control.... I would like to have greater control of what takes place in Welsh regional rugby, but to do that we've got to have everyone in agreement."'

( http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17914649 )

So here we go - the independent report is in, now we're going to hear what the WRU's grand plan is. Sorry, we're going to hear what its grand plan is 'going forward', seeing as that's the utterly superfluous phrase everyone in rugby seems to use these days, Roger Lewis among them. But I digress.

Are the Dragons going to be 'downgraded'? Will we see the creation of the new Valleys Rugby regional team? Will the Blues be rescued or cut adrift? We'll find out soon enough!

Anybody watching sport wales?

there was just a little clip with Roger Lewis. They were talking about maybe the WRU paying most of the international players wages, then the regions paying them to get the players to play for the regions. Lewis was talking about the WRU taking a bigger financial risk, in the return for greater control


The reporter was then asking some other guy (didn't catch his name sorry) whether that would be deciding how often they play for the regions, what position and even perhaps what region!! they play for. I for one would hate to see that happen. That could destroy the regions, especially the ones who use their big name players to draw crowds in. It also takes away the choice of the player deciding who they'd want to play for.

Take Jon Davies and Ken Owens as prime examples. They are Scarlets through and through, how would they feel then if the WRU then decided they should play for one of the other regions?? Personally, I don't like the sound of that. I also don't like the sound of the WRU perhaps dictating when the players should actually play for the regions. I mean, how can you plan a proper team/tactics etc around that?

I hope this is one idea that is rejected anyhoo.

Havent really digested this enough to form my opinion. Shocked that this is what they are saying but can see benefits as well as negatives.

The WRU need the regions to work, and to work well so I cant imagine that they would do something detrimental to their influence on Welsh Rugby or to the Fans.

Ill get back to you later when I've thought about this a bit more.

I'm hoping it's just an idea that was discussed and will be chucked out. It would be disastrous for some the regions in terms of marketing and what the fans what to see. My instant reaction to it is a big fat NO!

The interests of the national team are the only important thing.

What happens in Llanelli, Swansea, Cardiff and Newport is of little interest to anyone now - even people that live in those towns - they are just feeders for the test squad, that is their only purpose.

Just hope the WRU get this right this time.

to be feeders to the test squad they need to be successful. No regions = no test squad.

I hope the WRU actually realise that.

rugbydreamer wrote:to be feeders to the test squad they need to be successful. No regions = no test squad.

I hope the WRU actually realise that.

Sorry - but that is not supported by the facts. They have all (that brief period of consistency by the Ospreys aside) been completely unsuccessful during the decade of 'regionalism', and yet we've produced 3 Grand Slams.

Keep the costs down and follow the current model.

And players of the class of JD2 and Ken Owens should be playing in England or France now anyway - allowing more young players to come through.

by successful I mean actually running, functioning and existing. If the WRU put into place what was suggested, crowds will drop further and the regions will just die. Basically.

What are you basing that theory on, Dreamer? Crowds were bigger before regionalism, so there's no suggestion that anything will change in terms of numbers going to the games.

I guess that 'regions' may have to merge back with their premiership equivalents at some point, but that would simplify everything anyway.

Oh well, the same people who threw their toy's out first time around are going to start doing it again, things are never going to work in Wales, funny thing is the people on here who tell me on a regular basis that I need to move on when I have a moan about not having a region are all ready starting to bitch now, they don't seem to want change, funny that isn't it ?

Thing is, you either do it properly, (North, South, East & West - big change, lots of expense, risk of losing what few fans there are, etc) or you leave it as it is.

Just creating another mediocre, irrelevant region ('Valleys') is utterly pointless.

So leave it as it is - but give WRU more control and slash the costs. Best players go to France and England.

For the first time in a decade - this is starting to make sense.

Casartelli wrote:Thing is, you either do it properly, (North, South, East & West - big change, lots of expense, risk of losing what few fans there are, etc) or you leave it as it is.

Just creating another mediocre, irrelevant region ('Valleys') is utterly pointless.

So leave it as it is - but give WRU more control and slash the costs. Best players go to France and England.

For the first time in a decade - this is starting to make sense.

The thing is casartelli, that all the people who threw their toys out in the first place to get what they have now, will just throw their toys out again. The only way things wil work is if the majority get what they want, and they won't give a monkeys about the rest of us.

For me, it's not about not wanting change, it's about wanting change that is good and will actually work!

How can a region plan it's team, it's tactics etc etc if they don't know when they will have a Welsh international available, or even what position that said player will be told to play in?!

Surely you can see how that won't be workable?

Limiting the number of games the internationals play, that I agree with, because the amount they are playing now just isn't sustainable.

I really am struggling to see how the idea mentioned could actually be of any benefit to the regions though, in any way.

I thought the same when the scrapped the warriors rugbydreamer,but, here we are, three grand slams later, just because you don't like it, it does not mean it will not work, so I will tell you what I have been told so many times, just get behind your region and support it, as it is for the good of the national team.

Dowlais honestly, I already do support my region, always have, always will.

I just don't see how a region can be run when they don't know what players are available or what positions they will be allowed to play in. That's simple enough to understand, no?

Oh I understand, I understand completely, it's just I think you must keep an open mind, afterall we grizzled last time, but what cannot speak cannot lie, and here we are three grand slams to the good, so they must know something, and here you are belly aching already, before a decision has been set in stone.

Dowlais, sounds to me that you are giving out telling people to just get behind team Wales because that is what you were told back in the day.

What is being proposed here is completely different to what happened when the regions were formed. I am actually asking how the regions can be run if the measures of control the WRU have suggested are put into place. Nothing more sinister to it than that, and certainly not bellyaching. Just a genuine concern that I feel needs to be addressed

I know what you are saying rugbydreamer, and I agree with you, but you are rubbishing the idea before it is even been given a chance, just because you don't like the sound of it, it does not mean it is a bad idea, so let's get behind it and then if it fails then we can rubbish it.

no i'm genuinely questioning how on earth it could possibly work?

so far, no one has come up with a reply for me.

Dreamer - Scarlets fans should be grateful that the WRU isn't proposing shutting down the region altogether.

A 4% increase in (creative) attendances doesn't compensate for ten years of mediocrity and multi-million pound (we'll never agree on the actual number) debt.

Just keep your head down and be thankful you have some local rugby to go and watch.

It's all about the international team nowadays.

rugbydreamer wrote:For me, it's not about not wanting change, it's about wanting change that is good and will actually work!

How can a region plan it's team, it's tactics etc etc if they don't know when they will have a Welsh international available, or even what position that said player will be told to play in?!

Surely you can see how that won't be workable?

Limiting the number of games the internationals play, that I agree with, because the amount they are playing now just isn't sustainable.

I really am struggling to see how the idea mentioned could actually be of any benefit to the regions though, in any way.

It seems to work so very well for the Irish though...! Maybe making our regional rugby a bit more like their provinces we can maintain a good international team and see the regions garner some success?

rugbydreamer wrote:no i'm genuinely questioning how on earth it could possibly work?

so far, no one has come up with a reply for me.

It will work for the regions like it does for the provinces in Ireland.

maestegmafia wrote:

It seems to work so very well for the Irish though...! Maybe making our regional rugby a bit more like their provinces we can maintain a good international team and see the regions garner some success?

How could that be achieved?
Bear in mind the Irish provinces or kingdoms if you like are centuries old, are clearly marked on most maps and have historical significance that people can relate to. The Welsh regional areas on the other hand are roughly outlined, drawn by Moffet with a magic marker (that he must have been sniffing), around a bunch of independent rugby clubs the vast majority of which are little village clubs like mine. Also those lines were redrawn in 2004 and again I think, when the Canadian Gogs were introduced whenever that was.
Something else to ponder is that the Irish players are able to benefit from a 40%, 10 year tax break which no doubt encourages those same players to stay put in Ireland.

Casartelli wrote:Fuss over nothing, leave everything as it is.

This is covered on another thread and is totally valid;

Strong Irish provinces = inconsistent Test team.

Rubbish Welsh regions = 3 Grand Slams.

If it ain't broke.....

It is broke which is why the regions introduced the self imposed salary cap to force the WRU to the table. And it worked.
The WRU are obviously concerned because players are leaving our shores meaning Gatland will have reduced access to the said same players and therefore less preparation time for team Wales matches. Those players leaving will also not be rested between 6Ns games if they are elsewhere. See Mike Phillips and Hook. More to follow next season.
Less chance of another slam I reckon if the current state of affairs continues unabated.

Dave I really disagree that most of your points have anything to do with rugby at all.

Your sense of the history of everything has little to do with anything but recent rugby allegiances. When I was at school the area that Ospreys cover was very much a region though within that their were separate battles between local bigger teams and towns.

I really dont feel the same way as you on this and I dont think it bears any semblance to a positive future.

maestegmafia wrote:Dave I really disagree that most of your points have anything to do with rugby at all.

Your sense of the history of everything has little to do with anything but recent rugby allegiances. When I was at school the area that Ospreys cover was very much a region though within that their were separate battles between local bigger teams and towns.

I really dont feel the same way as you on this and I dont think it bears any semblance to a positive future.

No worries, feel free to disagree as much as you like, but the simple fact is that many don't recognise the regions as they were set up around existing clubs. In other words they are not and never were proper regions.
By the way the Ospreys region was altered when the Warriors were culled. Can you remember that happening? What do you think the effect was on those supporters within that region? Put yourself in their shoes. Would you have jumped ship just because the WRU said you should?
History has everything to do with it and a positive future depends on it.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Dave I really disagree that most of your points have anything to do with rugby at all.

Your sense of the history of everything has little to do with anything but recent rugby allegiances. When I was at school the area that Ospreys cover was very much a region though within that their were separate battles between local bigger teams and towns.

I really dont feel the same way as you on this and I dont think it bears any semblance to a positive future.

No worries, feel free to disagree as much as you like, but the simple fact is that many don't recognise the regions as they were set up around existing clubs. In other words they are not and never were proper regions.
By the way the Ospreys region was altered when the Warriors were culled. Can you remember that happening? What do you think the effect was on those supporters within that region? Put yourself in their shoes. Would you have jumped ship just because the WRU said you should?
History has everything to do with it and a positive future depends on it.

History has bugger all to do with it and neither have the locations, they are just teams and same as for years anyone can chose to support or not support whoever they want. I grew up in the Afan Valley, I dreamed of playing for aberavon other lads for maesteg or even cardiff... It didnt blwdi matter. no one tells you who to support. There are many kids round here now with Ospreys shirts, there are a few with Blues and a couple of Dragons and Scarlets too, It is the same everywhere.
i really dont see why you keep banging on with this point that so many people feel the way you do when they so clearly do not. It is a game, people will support who they want, and the talented will play for whoever gives them a chance.

maestegmafia wrote:

History has bugger all to do with it and neither have the locations, they are just teams and same as for years anyone can chose to support or not support whoever they want. I grew up in the Afan Valley, I dreamed of playing for aberavon other lads for maesteg or even cardiff... It didnt blwdi matter. no one tells you who to support. There are many kids round here now with Ospreys shirts, there are a few with Blues and a couple of Dragons and Scarlets too, It is the same everywhere.
i really dont see why you keep banging on with this point that so many people feel the way you do when they so clearly do not. It is a game, people will support who they want, and the talented will play for whoever gives them a chance.

The bit in bold; absolutely right.
It was always like that and still is and will ever be.
Not sure I agree that history has bugger all to do with it.
They are not just teams. They are clubs which have a great history and many are proud to shout about it. People like that too.
And it's not just a game today, it's also a business.