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European Tour - Volvo World Match Play Championship

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Post by princedracula Thu 17 May 2012 - 11:23

First topic message reminder :

It's nice, for a change, to have from time to time a good match play event mixed up within the regular stroke play calendar. Fair play to Volvo for continuing to sponsor this long running European event, although in my view the current format and qualification criteria could probably do with some improvements. At the same time, the very limited field and the bucketload of owgr points on offer would be another contentious point, no doubt... Having said all that, should be a good contest this week at Finca Cortesin in Andalucia, where the 5-strong English contingent will be looking to maintain the 100% winning record since the event has been moved away from Wentworth. Conditions look to be good today (first match between Poulter and Senden just about starting now), but wind is likely to play some part over the weekend...

Matteo has been on stand-by at the course waiting patiently as a first reserve, but it looks like he probably won't get lucky... Should be well within Poulter's grasp to defend his title this week, specially considering his good form of late, but I've a good feeling it may be Kaymer's time to shine once again...

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Post by Skydriver Sat 19 May 2012 - 12:37

Bad day for the English at Finca Cortesin. And not too great at Lord's either.

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Post by Diggers Sat 19 May 2012 - 17:37

Going very well at Lords. This is one shocking Windies side, and a very useful England side at home. Runs for Strauss and Bell just what was needed.

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Post by GPB Sat 19 May 2012 - 18:39

With 700K € to to the winner, this tournament will go a long way to clinching a spot on the Euro Ryder Cup team:

Gonzo (already passed by Bello) is going to be knocked out of the bubble spot and it looks Sergio would be bumped off the tentative team as well if Lawrie finishes 2nd or Bello wins the tournaments.




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Post by John Cregan Sat 19 May 2012 - 19:02

Please don't tell me there is OWGR Points for Tied 17th here??

PD/GPB, help!!

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Post by robopz Sat 19 May 2012 - 19:28

John Cregan wrote:Please don't tell me there is OWGR Points for Tied 17th here??

PD/GPB, help!!

But of course John. Hanson, Senden, Clarke, Hiratsuka and Kaymer (all 5 who didn't win a single match) will earn more points in this event than Molinari, Yang, Laird, and Immelman made for making the cut at the Masters.

And that makes sense right? I mean that "thingy" in April was only a Major... not near as impressive as losing to everybody in the VOLVO MATCH PLAY for gawds sake. thumbsdown

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Post by GPB Sat 19 May 2012 - 19:28

Yep, there sure are points for DFL or Tied for DFL. Just a like a last place finish at Nedbank and Chevron.

I believe it will be 2.61 points per player. (and €50K).

T9 is worth 4.44 OWGR points (and €70K)
T5 is worth 7.41 OWGR points (and €92.5K)
T3 is worth 13.3 OWGR points (and €180K)
2nd is worth 22.8 OWGR pts (€360K)
1st is worth 38 OWGR pts (€700K)

The fact the Rory, Luke and Westy skipped this tournament, gave the RC standings a great chance at tightening up. And it did!

And it didn't hurt that the Kaymer and Hanson finished T17 and Rose finished T9.

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Post by John Cregan Sat 19 May 2012 - 19:35

Cheers Robo/GPB thumbsup

How can this be allowed to happen?? No wonder DC entered. it's one of the few tournaments where he will "earn" points................

Also, the fact that this € 50k is counted as "official" money for the Ryder Cup & R2D is nothing short of scandelous.............

I've NEVER seen any journalist making an issue of this, only us sods on here!!


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Post by robopz Sat 19 May 2012 - 19:37

GPB wrote:
I believe it will be 2.61 points per player. (and €50K).

GEO... I think they reduce last place in these limited field events... I think to 2.4 max even though the 8 way-tie for 17th would be more using the formula. At least that's what they did for last year's Volvo Match Play, Chevron and Nedbank... but NOT the Tour Championship.

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Post by robopz Sat 19 May 2012 - 19:44

John Cregan wrote:Cheers Robo/GPB :
I've NEVER seen any journalist making an issue of this, only us sods on here!!

Actually the journalists made QUITE and issue of it the last two years on both the Nedbank and Chevron. But except for a VERY few... nobody seemed to notice or care until it benefited Tiger Woods in helping him hold onto his ranking a little longer and helped Lee Westwood return to #1. But GPB and I have been talking about it (at least to each other) going back as far as at least 2009.

Bottom line: The OWGR's only response to date on the criticism on small events has been to make a modification by removing Home Tour Values which will hurt the Chevron but probably not the Nedbank.

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Post by GPB Sat 19 May 2012 - 19:49

robopz wrote:
GPB wrote:
I believe it will be 2.61 points per player. (and €50K).

GEO... I think they reduce last place in these limited field events... I think to 2.4 max even though the 8 way-tie for 17th would be more using the formula. At least that's what they did for last year's Volvo Match Play, Chevron and Nedbank... but NOT the Tour Championship.

24th place in a level 38 tournament is worth 2.12 points. That is what I used to calculate the T17 placing.

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Post by GPB Sat 19 May 2012 - 20:08

If RCB and Colsearts win their semi-final matches tomorrow, the Ryder Cup standings will really tighten up, no matter who wins the finals.

Sergio is playing Colonial and not the BMW PGA? Considering his tenuous position in the Ryder Cup Standings, that is a odd decision. Does he have some sort of sponsor obligations with Crowne Plaza?

BTW, where is "home base" for Sergio when he plays in the USA? Home away from Home?

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Post by robopz Sat 19 May 2012 - 20:46

GPB wrote:
24th place in a level 38 tournament is worth 2.12 points. That is what I used to calculate the T17 placing.
??? Now I'm confused... didn't you post last place T17 at the Volvo would earn 2.61?

I understand how you got to that number, but my point is the OWGR does NOT use the standard average of places for 17-24th place in the Volvo Match Play... instead the MAX points they give will be 2.4. (NOT the 2.61 average)

Same for the Chevron and Nedbank... 12th in the Nedbank and 18th in the Chevron would be HIGHER than 2.4 if taken straight off the chart. But the OWGR only gives 2.4 for that last place in those events as well. OWGR does give FULL 30th place as per the chart to the Tour Championship with 30 players.


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Post by GPB Sat 19 May 2012 - 21:04

Yep, you're right, I thought they would be credited with 17th - 24th place finishes.

Not really a big deal at level 38. ~0.2 pts per player approximately 4/1000 of point in their average.

But I agree, that they should get nothing in OWGR points and no official money towards the R2D and Ryder Cup standings.

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Post by GPB Sat 19 May 2012 - 21:13

PD just posted in the OWGR thread that the Volvo is level 34 (and not 38)

1st … 34
2nd … 20.4
T3 … 11.9
T5 … 6.63
T9 … 3.975
T17 … 2.4 or 2.3375

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Post by robopz Sat 19 May 2012 - 21:21

By the way... are we SURE the Volvo Match Play will be a 38 point event?

I think it's 34 based on the 172 World ERV's... I don't think this event gets Home Tour points any longer... as per the following language from the OWGR announcement of 7/25/2011:

"2. “Limited Field” events (those events with less than 30 qualified players) will no longer receive “Home Rating Values” when Ranking Points are calculated as these special international fields are generally not aligned to “Home Tour” players. This measure will slightly reduce the value of the Ranking Points for these events."

If I read the above correctly... The Chevron, Nedbank AND the Volvo World Match play is affected by the above language.


EDIT: OOPS... Nevermind... it looks like others were reaching the same conclusion I was a little earlier...

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Post by GPB Sat 19 May 2012 - 21:30

Robo (or PD), what does last place (T17) get for Volvo.

2.4 pts or 2.3375 pts (which is the avg of 17th-24th places).

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Post by robopz Sat 19 May 2012 - 21:42

GPB wrote:Robo (or PD), what does last place (T17) get for Volvo.

I dunno GPB... This is the first time I know of with one of these short field events falling to a point where last place would be less than 2.4.

I'm going to guess that it will be the 2.3375 you came up with... but don't take that to the bank.

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Post by princedracula Sat 19 May 2012 - 22:47

kwinigolfer wrote:. . . . Do they have to wait until Kaymer and Finch have finished?
England 2 - Germany 0!!

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Post by Caito Sun 20 May 2012 - 9:02

Lawrie already motoring in his semi. 4 up through 5.

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Post by Caito Sun 20 May 2012 - 14:07

Oops. well and truly put the knockers on Lawrie there!

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 20 May 2012 - 15:08

Disappointing for Lawrie, so near and now so far from climbing the Ryder Cup qualie ladder.

Martin Kaymer's place now looking in increasing jeopardy . . . . .

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Post by GPB Sun 20 May 2012 - 15:57

On the surface, it looks like Martin Kaymer caught a bad case of "I am a Major Champion" Ego this year. I play only the biggest events or ones that I get paid to play. This is only his 8th tournament of the year. He very vulnerable to losing his spot on the team.

No matter who wins, Justin Rose is going to #6 in the Euro RC standings, which means he moves to the OWGR World Points List and bumping Gonzo out of the top 10. Sergio is the bubble boy, with about a 17 point lead on Colsaerts (if he wins) or 23 point lead on RCB.

I don't know if we are seeing this live in the USA, but GMac and Colsaerts are playing like Hacks on the 9th hole.

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Post by I'm never wrong Sun 20 May 2012 - 15:59

GPB wrote:Sergio is playing Colonial and not the BMW PGA?
He took issue some years ago re being taxed on earnings/appearance/sponsorship money when playing in UK.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 20 May 2012 - 16:03

Sort of "Live" - i.e. on a small tape delay without the Golf Channel telling it's anything other than Live!


More important, what does Wentworth look like for next week?
Cold spring, wet April, three-sweater weather at Lords but seemingly a warm-up for this week? Pleasant weekend forecast, but wonder how the course is??

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Post by GPB Sun 20 May 2012 - 16:45

Oops wrong thread. *deleted*

GMAC is playing some scruffy golf. Got a huge break after the 'lateral' with his free drop.


Incidentally,(forgive my ignorance), but what are those mountains in the background. They look so stark, with no trees or foliage. Just an illusion or are they really like that?

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Post by GPB Mon 21 May 2012 - 13:47

According to the European Tour Page, first prize for the Volvo was supposed to be 700,000 Euro.

Yet Colsaerts was credited with 458,333 Euro in the money list.

Did they announce a reduction in prize money.

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Post by robopz Mon 21 May 2012 - 15:53

GPB wrote:According to the European Tour Page, first prize for the Volvo was supposed to be 700,000 Euro.

Yet Colsaerts was credited with 458,333 Euro in the money list.

Did they announce a reduction in prize money.

No reduction... Prize money for the Volvo Match Play is capped for Race to Dubai purposes in line with European Tour regulations.

Last year Poulter actually won 800,000 Euro, but only 566.660 was credited to his Race to Dubai standings. I assume its the same situation this year.

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Post by princedracula Mon 21 May 2012 - 18:40

robo's right, it's the RtD credited money that are shown...
But if anyone is doing the ET fantasy race thingy, the actual full/real amounts are considered there. Glad to say I had 3 of the 4 SF-ists in my team this week...

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Post by GPB Mon 21 May 2012 - 19:14

Well the EuroT RC standing (Euro Points) was not quite as affected by the Volvo has I thought.

It seems strange that events that only have about ~30 Euros playing, ie WGC events, to not discount the prize money.

Brendan Grace has won 3 events on the ET this year yet only 5 in the RtD. #1 and #2 on the money list have played a grand total of 3 Euro events (that are not co-sanctioned with PGAT).

The R2D standings are so sensitive to the Majors and WGCs that it takes a career year for a non-World Class player to make a dent into the R2D standings.

Lets assume for a minute that Brandon Grace was European (rather than a South African). he would only be ~15th in the both Euro Tour point list and World Points list. The odds are really stacked against a player not already exempt into WGCs and Majors.

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Post by robopz Mon 21 May 2012 - 22:14

GPB wrote:The R2D standings are so sensitive to the Majors and WGCs that it takes a career year for a non-World Class player to make a dent into the R2D standings.

Lets assume for a minute that Brandon Grace was European (rather than a South African). he would only be ~15th in the both Euro Tour point list and World Points list. The odds are really stacked against a player not already exempt into WGCs and Majors.

You're correct... but I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

Take a closer look at Grace's line... Not to take anything away from three wins but you have to look at those fields he's won against. IMO the 84 points he won in those three wins is "about right", but still heavily influenced by home tour values. But Grace's problem is that when he's stepped out against better fields, he's yet display anything like the level of golf we might have expected from a 3 time winner. He made the cut in Abu Dhabi and Qatar, but that's about all. And when he got a shot at a WGC he finished middle of the pack and a dozen shots off the pace. All in all he's earned about 11 points in his other 11 starts... and that's just not going to get it done. Just 4 more points in those 11 events and I think he'd be in the U.S. Open already.

I got a chance to watch a lot of him on TV in two of those wins... and have to say I was impressed.... and am still bullish on his future. But in the opportunities he's had against better fields... maybe he's just not a "prime time" player... yet.

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Post by GPB Mon 21 May 2012 - 23:45

I somewhat agree that Grace is not ready for prime time, but I do think is under-ranked considering his play this year.

IMO, he should be exempt into the US Open, and players falling like a rock in the OWGR like Casey, Ishikawa, KT Kim and yes even Jimenez should not be exempt.

Grace is paying for a resume full of so-so finishes on 2nd Tier Tours which is nearly as bad as having a divisor of 20 tournaments.

Based on this years results in 14 tournaments, Brandon is trending to a OWGR average of 3.88 which would put him well inside the top 30.

96.69 pts /14 tournament * 0.5625 (avg attrition for 104 weeks)

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Post by robopz Tue 22 May 2012 - 1:44

GPB wrote:I somewhat agree that Grace is not ready for prime time, but I do think is under-ranked considering his play this year.

IMO, he should be exempt into the US Open, and players falling like a rock in the OWGR like Casey, Ishikawa, KT Kim and yes even Jimenez should not be exempt.

Grace is paying for a resume full of so-so finishes on 2nd Tier Tours which is nearly as bad as having a divisor of 20 tournaments.

Based on this years results in 14 tournaments, Brandon is trending to a OWGR average of 3.88 which would put him well inside the top 30.

96.69 pts /14 tournament * 0.5625 (avg attrition for 104 weeks)

Can't argue with any of the above. But if he's as good as all that, he'll prove it by June 11th and earn a spot in the U.S. Open. He's entered in this week's BMW, got a sponsors exemption into the Memorial and he's entered in the next Monday's Sectional qualifier at Scioto Country Club just in case. (Not sure if he has a SE working for Memphis or not) Hope he makes it, and he will if he can do what good players do... play well against a good field.

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Post by Skydriver Tue 22 May 2012 - 14:24

The draw is out for BMW PGA.

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/season=2012/tournamentid=2012034/teetimes/index.html

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Post by kwinigolfer Tue 22 May 2012 - 15:29

Sky,
Looking forward to your eye-witness accounts! thumbsup

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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 23 May 2012 - 14:05

Sounds like Simon Dyson's injury is quite nasty - "stressed pelvis . . . close to fracturing". He'll be gone for a while I would think.

Having qualified for all the big tournaments, it looks like he'll miss some of them at least.

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