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Stuart Broad - is it just a streak

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Post by LondonTiger Mon 21 May 2012, 4:01 pm

Since the start of the series with India last year - when England stopped using Broad as an enforcer and he started to pitch the ball up he hast taken 51 wickets in 9 tests at an average of under 18.

This has seen his career average fall to a slither over 30 (commonly used in recent years to denote a class bowler). I have always been a fan of his, though did at times despair that we would never see him take the wickets I thought he might. I hope, really hope, that this is a sign that he has developed into a fully fledged test match bowler who will win tests for us for another 5 years and more. Please don't let it just be one of those purple patches players sometimes go through.

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Post by Shelsey93 Mon 21 May 2012, 4:22 pm

It is certainly a run of very good form. It would be asking a lot to sustain an average of 18 (even McGrath's average was a tad under 22). But I certainly wouldn't expect him to return to the inconsistent form of his early Test career. He has finally understood how best to utilise his talents.

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Post by Guest Mon 21 May 2012, 6:24 pm

I think Broad has found the consistency that has been lacking. He hasn't the control to really be pitching wide of the line to try and get the ball to do a lot. For me he looks the more finished article now.

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Post by m@tt Mon 21 May 2012, 7:20 pm

His average is less than Jimmy's now. Both should look to go sub-30 by the end of the tour though.
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Post by msp83 Mon 21 May 2012, 7:30 pm

Certinly with a clearer understanding of his role and his strengths as a bowler, Broad has become far better. He may not sustain an average of under 18, but I think he has reahed a point in his career where he could be depended on by the captain as a consistent wicket taking option for the side.

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Post by mystiroakey Mon 21 May 2012, 8:18 pm

broad has been playing well since he came in the england team and just got better and better. there is no streak just a natural progression . He allwasy was picked as the apprentace if you will(the player picked on potential over current ability).

And he has been perfect. I remeber the 606 days saying how good he was and getting into plenty of arguments lol- where you lot these days!!

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Post by Cowshot Mon 21 May 2012, 10:51 pm

I think he's basically done a lot of growing up. He's fantastically talented and I would guess that life has been pretty easy for him. People like that often are a little immature because they've not really had the buffets and knocks that life gives most of us. Seems a more measured character to me now. Still a few rough edges, though.

Was pleased with Bell's contribution in the Test, too. He made runs when we needed someone to knuckle down in both innings. Especially pleasing because I've certainly felt in the past he made easy runs, but not the tough ones that turn matches.

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Post by mystiroakey Mon 21 May 2012, 11:59 pm

Bell and Prior are two players that i think are slightly under par when comparing them to the rest of our team(bar bairstow who is our apprentice type player or bresnan who is that bit part subby player that all teams need because you can mix that position up based on conditions)- the rest could almost get into any side in the world- but bell and prior not sure- so good to see him do his bit.

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Post by eirebilly Tue 22 May 2012, 6:45 am

For me its quite simple. Its been down to his role in the team. When he first came on the scene the management tried to turn him into Freddy MarkII. This meant that his coaching was split between bowling and batting.

He is now regarded as an out and out bowler who can bat a bit instead of an allrounder so they have spent more time focussing on his bowling.
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 22 May 2012, 7:48 am

England were obsessed with finding a tall aggressive bowler to replace/be Harmisson, they tried to force Broad to be that.
Now they have one in Finn they dont pick him. *shrug*

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Post by mystiroakey Tue 22 May 2012, 7:56 am

I dont think they forced broad to be anything. the guy has just matured within the set up and was allways picked on potential. and now that fruit was rippend.. Good times - it worked

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Post by Biltong Tue 22 May 2012, 8:02 am

Still don't like Broad much though.
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Post by mystiroakey Tue 22 May 2012, 8:07 am

you will like him even less after the summer

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Post by Biltong Tue 22 May 2012, 8:37 am

Doubt it, I always enjoy a decent performance. My dislike has nothing to do with his performances. He reminds me of Dominic Cork and he wasn't a very nice guy.
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Post by mystiroakey Tue 22 May 2012, 8:40 am

Yeah i dont really know him bilt but i will take your word for it Stuart Broad - is it just a streak 732107

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Post by killer938 Tue 22 May 2012, 8:46 am

Mystiroakey

With the exception of the winter, Bell has been one of our 2 best bastmen over the last 2 years, along with Cook, and would have walked into any side in the world on form.

Prior is, in my opinion, streaks ahead of any other wicketkeeper in terms of overall game, I wouldn't swap him with anyone now that his wicketkeeping has improved so much.

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Post by Biltong Tue 22 May 2012, 8:50 am

Cork was here in SA in 1995, and a mate and myself went down to Port elizabeth to watch the test.

We sat amongst a bunch of kids who were keen on cricket and wanted the player's autographs, so they kept begging for them, Graeme Hick in particular just ignored them, however Cork was simply just unpleasant.

We started to get to know one of the organisers at one of the boxes there, and he told us how dominic cork threw his toys out when his mother was unhappy about the accommodaion arranged for her.

They ended up renting a house for her as she and her son were not very pleasant to deal with.

At one stage cork took a wicket and threw the middle finger to the crowd, he wasn't very popular after that.

A little spoilt brat is how he behaved.
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Post by mystiroakey Tue 22 May 2012, 8:52 am

Cook and trott have been way above bell and kp is a given because he is a match winner- so perhaps bell could be considered number 4- but not top 2!

Swan anderson and broad are top 5 bowlers in the world- so they would walk into any team.

cook,trott and kp would also wlak into any team.

bell and prior- really not sure dude

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Post by mystiroakey Tue 22 May 2012, 8:57 am

bilt yeah i know sportsmen are like the rest of us- some nice, some not so.But i personally dont judge them on anything but there game.

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Post by Stella Tue 22 May 2012, 9:07 am

Prior is the best keeper/bat in the world, imo.

Bell, KP, Trott and Cook are all world class batsmen. Add to that, Broad, Anderson and Swann then we look very good.

As for Broad. petulant, spoilt........yes probably but as long as he plays well, who cares. The one thing that did annoy me was his lack of appealing with LBW's but he seems to have got over that.



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Post by killer938 Tue 22 May 2012, 9:09 am

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/batting/highest_career_batting_average.html?class=1;id=2011;type=year

Enough said, more centuries than anyone else except Dravid, highest average, 3rd most runs in less matches IN THE WORLD, sorry what was that about Cook and Trott being "way above Bell"?

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Post by mystiroakey Tue 22 May 2012, 9:11 am

cheers killer- for some reason he just goes under my radar.

Strange to be in a place were we have so many top players

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Post by killer938 Tue 22 May 2012, 9:17 am

I know, I have no qualms in admitting that I am a huge Bell fan, being from Warks and followed his career from an early age so forgive my attitude, I just backed him for a long time when people wrote him off so it is great to see him living up to his potential, the winter not withstanding. He needs to learn how to play in the sub continent but then again so do a lot of the players.

As Stella said, Prior is the best wicketkeeper bastman in the world, its a very nice place to be but the real test is this summer because as much as the English conditions suit us, I think they will suit SA as well.

With regards to Broad, he may be seen as not a nice guy but in terms of bowling he is right up there at the moment and so I am not complaining.

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Post by Stella Tue 22 May 2012, 9:22 am

Have Edgbaston got a test this summer, killer?

I normally go there but I get the feeling they only have an ODI'.
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Post by killer938 Tue 22 May 2012, 9:25 am

3rd test against the WI is at Edgbaston

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Post by killer938 Tue 22 May 2012, 9:26 am

Unfortunately I live in France now so I won't be going but I have a ticket for Lords against SA which I can't wait for

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Post by Stella Tue 22 May 2012, 9:27 am

Cheers.

Nice ground now the main stand has been done.

I will TRY and get a couple for next summer but getting ashes tickets seems to be harder than normal.
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Post by killer938 Tue 22 May 2012, 9:31 am

Yeh, I am planning to go over to Australia for the Ashes next winter with my Dad, something we have been wanting to do for a long time

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Post by dummy_half Tue 22 May 2012, 9:37 am

myst
I think with Bell there are a few reasons he's a bit 'under the radar' regarding how well he's played in the last couple of years (bar last winter):
1 - There is still the perception that he only scores runs when others in the team have already done so. This isn't really true any more, but it takes a while before people notice.

2 - His style. Neither flamboyant in the KP mould nor an old-school grinder of a Test batsman like Cook or Trott. He just goes in and scores efficiently and in many cases surprisingly rapidly for someone who doesn't appear to have big shots.

3 - A lack of really memorable innings. Yes, he scored 235 against India last summer, but even that innings is mostly remembered for the comical run-out / reprieve at the tea interval rather than for the quality of the performance.

4 - Personality (or at least perception as comes through the TV). Again, lacking KPs arrogance, the belligerence of Prior or the obvious steel of Trott and Collingwood, he just appears to be a bit of a quiet guy who just gets on with his job.

As for Broad (who after all was the initial topic of this thread), he improved when he figured out what type of bowler he was trying to be. He was caught a bit between two stools for a while, as attempting to be both a fast-medium seamer and a quick 'bang it in' bowler - in the latter role he was forcing his action to generate pace and so wasn't very good at it. At the start of last summer he went back to play a County game at Trent Bridge (always a good ground for swing bowling because the river means there's a bit of humidity) and discovered some form because he was able to pitch the ball up at just under 90mph without forcing it and get it to swing and seam a bit (not in the Jimmy A mould, but enough to cause problems). He's largely been able to retain the rhythm and technique he found during that match for the last year and he now looks a proper test bowler.

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Post by killer938 Tue 22 May 2012, 9:43 am

Dummy_half

I agree with those points, though the comical run out was during the innings at Trent Bridge when he got 159, not the 235. I was actually there for that and the incident happened right below us.

However, give me one English batsman I would want to watch everyday and it would be Bell, he not be as flamboyant as KP but he is just pure class.

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Post by Stella Tue 22 May 2012, 9:49 am

Bell's 235 was a real top knock.

I would compare Bell to Swansea City. Nice to watch but not exiting. Very good player though.
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Post by Guest Tue 22 May 2012, 10:18 am

Ian Bell is a top player. Yes a few times he has been out to silly decision making. Leaving the Warne straight delivery springs to mind. But the guy is class. His shot making ability is second to none. Granted he struggled as England number 3, at number 5 he seems far more relaxed and for me and is able to play his natural game. He may not have the switch hits or other eye catching shots, but he is a destructive batsman for me more in the Hussey mould. Safe hands to come in at the lower order.

Because England are not struggling in the Test matches he performs well in sometimes takes away from his performances which should be acknowledged.

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Post by Mike Selig Tue 22 May 2012, 10:19 am

killer938 wrote:Unfortunately I live in France now so I won't be going but I have a ticket for Lords against SA which I can't wait for

Thread highjack!

Whereabouts in France? Are you involved in cricket here? If not, would you like to be? there are 40odd clubs here, I'm sure we can find something for you to do...

Also, if you are near the Paris area, France are playing the MCC on the 15th and 16th of June.

PM me if you want more details.

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Post by hampo17 Tue 22 May 2012, 12:11 pm

biltongbek wrote:Doubt it, I always enjoy a decent performance. My dislike has nothing to do with his performances. He reminds me of Dominic Cork and he wasn't a very nice guy.

When I met Cork during his lancs days he was a top bloke, must have mellowed in old age Laugh

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Post by Biltong Tue 22 May 2012, 1:53 pm

He must have mellowed a LOT. (imagine Jeff dunnham's Peanut, and the way he wold say A LOT)
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Post by msp83 Tue 22 May 2012, 3:30 pm

Broad's petulance used to annoy me a lot. But now he seems to have developed in that aspect as well. He was never a Ricky Ponting/Glenn McGrath style rowdy, mostly he was too childish for an international test cricketer. As he hs improved in this regard, his moment and vs the review system, his absolute conviction that every ball that hits the pad is LBW, every ball that goes passed the edge is a catch behind, actually creates some real funny moments. Strauss has handled him really well, and for that alone he should be given an extended year of captaincy, even if he doesn't score a run!.

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