Pumas

Well is some good thing that Argentina joining the Rugby Championship this year.

Variety making spicey in life is going the saying and after some time of things be always the same will shaking up the calendar and add some interest to the competitions.

I am excited to finding out more about Argentina players and watching rugby in this beautiful country with so passionate people and supporters.

One topic is I was interest to discover about Sir Graham Henry working on advisor to Pumas. I didn't know about this and is interesting to be "under the radar" when so much fuss about Wayne Smith "loyalty" making the story.

On tangent topic will England fans always supporting the opposition team in all games because they get angry about Falklands? or this is not making a problem in rugby?

anotherworldofpain wrote:Well is some good thing that Argentina joining the Rugby Championship this year.

Variety making spicey in life is going the saying and after some time of things be always the same will shaking up the calendar and add some interest to the competitions.

I am excited to finding out more about Argentina players and watching rugby in this beautiful country with so passionate people and supporters.

One topic is I was interest to discover about Sir Graham Henry working on advisor to Pumas. I didn't know about this and is interesting to be "under the radar" when so much fuss about Wayne Smith "loyalty" making the story.

On tangent topic will England fans always supporting the opposition team in all games because they get angry about Falklands? or this is not making a problem in rugby?

Superb! Would you mind if I use that?

Politics. Sports. Never the twain should meet.

Regardless of any political issues The UK has/had with Argentina, i for one relish them going into one of the best tournaments in the world and part of the ever growing Rugby community around the world.

At club level we're already seeing some world class Argentinian players, and this can only be good for their hemisphere and for the world game in general.

I always have to read through your sentences twice to understand them

Sorry about it.

Lol.

It has to be good. Regualr tours and a regular competition has to be good for the Pumas. Regualr home games against top quality opposition has to help the game grow in Argentina and in South America. It's not just the standard of play, and the marketing, it's letting the young playes and coaches see players and teams live. I'm picking that they'll start to get the odd victory as well which can only do them good in the long run.

On another note I see France are touring Argentina. I assumed an easy French victory. A quick look at their recent form suggests otherwise. They play each other regularly and Argentina usually wins. 7 victories in the last 10 years to 3 losses in the last 10 years. That's a better record against the French that anyone else bar MZ and Australia. I hear the several top players may be rested for France, so don't be surprised if Argentina go up the rankings prior to the satrt of the championship.

I am looking forward to this, the tri nations with only three teams in it needed it badly as it did become a little stale, and the 2 matches home and one away every alternative year didn't work in my opinion.

Now it is good, 4 teams, 3 home matches 3 away matches, the best thing that could have happened.

(Hopefully now we will win some matches for a change as well)

biltongbek wrote:I am looking forward to this, the tri nations with only three teams in it needed it badly as it did become a little stale, and the 2 matches home and one away every alternative year didn't work in my opinion.

Now it is good, 4 teams, 3 home matches 3 away matches, the best thing that could have happened.

(Hopefully now we will win some matches for a change as well)

Who will be first to lose to Argentina then Biltong.

Could be anyone. But if I had to pick a side more likely to lose I'd say Australia in Argentina. On the basis that they sometimes really struggle at scrum time and then the rest of game could also struggle. May not be for a year or two though.

Not us.

I hope.

NZ herald has an interview with Henry on the Pumas. It says:

"Hired as an adviser for the Argentines but not allowed to coach in games, Henry summed up Argentina's greatest challenge.

"Need to score more tries,'' he said. "Simple.''

The link is: www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10809790

You sure he didn't talk about the springboks?

Lol. I was impressed by the boks at the WC. I thought they were one of the very few teams that had a backline that looked threatening. I'm not sure the TV coverage really showed this. I think a combination of Brousou (sp) (or another fetcher) and F Steyn at inside centre and they are a very dabgerous side with ball in hand.

Back to the Argies. Just looked there home record for 10 years.

Ireland 2 wins
France 4 wins
Wales 3 wins 1 loss
England 1 win 1 loss
Italy 2 win 2 loss
Scotland 1 win 3 loss
NZ 1 loss
Australia 1 loss
South Africa 2 loss

It's not to bad.

Be interesting to see who the Argentinians put out. They have some big names in the front row that have been around forever and aren't the most mobile but at the same time have some cracking young front rowers stacking up behind them. The best example of that would be Roncero at loosehead with the uber mobile Ayerza getting splinters.

There's a lot of flair in that Puma backline but no real power in the centres which makes their backline lack a little thrust in attack. They will need Hernandez and Contepomi fit and firing to unlock the Tri Teams defences with no midfield battering ram offering easy front foot yards. I'm looking forward to seeing the SH reactions to Agulla and Camacho, little guys that bump off an unbelievable number of tackles which physics would say they had no right to.

blackcanelion wrote:Lol. I was impressed by the boks at the WC. I thought they were one of the very few teams that had a backline that looked threatening. I'm not sure the TV coverage really showed this. I think a combination of Brousou (sp) (or another fetcher) and F Steyn at inside centre and they are a very dabgerous side with ball in hand.

Back to the Argies. Just looked there home record for 10 years.

Ireland 2 wins
France 4 wins
Wales 3 wins 1 loss
England 1 win 1 loss
Italy 2 win 2 loss
Scotland 1 win 3 loss
NZ 1 loss
Australia 1 loss
South Africa 2 loss

It's not to bad.

I am sure Wales have won more than once in the last 10 years or am I reading it wrong as I know we have lost more than once as well.

blackcanelion wrote:NZ herald has an interview with Henry on the Pumas. It says:

"Hired as an adviser for the Argentines but not allowed to coach in games, Henry summed up Argentina's greatest challenge.

"Need to score more tries,'' he said. "Simple.''

The link is: www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10809790

"That'll be $100k please" said Henry.

LordDowlais wrote:

blackcanelion wrote:Lol. I was impressed by the boks at the WC. I thought they were one of the very few teams that had a backline that looked threatening. I'm not sure the TV coverage really showed this. I think a combination of Brousou (sp) (or another fetcher) and F Steyn at inside centre and they are a very dabgerous side with ball in hand.

Back to the Argies. Just looked there home record for 10 years.

Ireland 2 wins
France 4 wins
Wales 3 wins 1 loss
England 1 win 1 loss
Italy 2 win 2 loss
Scotland 1 win 3 loss
NZ 1 loss
Australia 1 loss
South Africa 2 loss

It's not to bad.

I am sure Wales have won more than once in the last 10 years or am I reading it wrong as I know we have lost more than once as well.

Those are the results of the Pumas home games only Lord

blackcanelion wrote:Lol. I was impressed by the boks at the WC. I thought they were one of the very few teams that had a backline that looked threatening. I'm not sure the TV coverage really showed this. I think a combination of Brousou (sp) (or another fetcher) and F Steyn at inside centre and they are a very dabgerous side with ball in hand.

Back to the Argies. Just looked there home record for 10 years.

Ireland 2 wins
France 4 wins
Wales 3 wins 1 loss
England 1 win 1 loss
Italy 2 win 2 loss
Scotland 1 win 3 loss
NZ 1 loss
Australia 1 loss
South Africa 2 loss

It's not to bad.

Its a good record, and with those 4 wins over France, perhaps New Zealand should be worried - after all they never like playing France and Argentina play a similar style but with more consistency and less fancy back play.

Well it's dangerous to make assumptions about a team based on other teams' performance against that team. e.g. Ireland beat Australia but Australia beat Wales so Ireland can beat Wales.

France annoyingly tend to raise their game against the ABs but are woefully inconsistent at best against teams like Australia. France are a bogey team of NZ along with SA and Australia but Argentina have yet to prove that. They are undoubtedly a much more competitive team at home against NZ and may well beat us. But I think to compare France and Argentina is like comparing NZ and Wales. Both have similar styles but the similarities end there. Indeed you could argue that Argentina are more consistent than France.

I will say that the Argentinian defence in the AB RWC match was the most brutal I have seen. I have never seen Kaino and McCaw being driven back in the tackle like they were against the Argentina. If they can find a way to complement that strong defence and goalkicking with a more varied attack, I think they will become a very useful side. I expect them to be much more competitive than Italy in the 6N but the most important thing, much like Italy, is that they need to learn quickly how to become as effective playing away.

Their away form for the last 10 years looks like its better than Italy, Scotland and Wales. I'm surpeised by that given their lack of access to players and limited games.

blackcanelion wrote:Lol.
On another note I see France are touring Argentina. I assumed an easy French victory. A quick look at their recent form suggests otherwise. They play each other regularly and Argentina usually wins. 7 victories in the last 10 years to 3 losses in the last 10 years. That's a better record against the French that anyone else bar MZ and Australia. I hear the several top players may be rested for France, so don't be surprised if Argentina go up the rankings prior to the satrt of the championship.

wouldnt read much in past results between both teams during those tours though. france usually used games there to test a fair few amount of players.
France are touring argentina between the 10th and 25th of june but both teams will playing a large number of uncapped players : most of the argentinian european legion should be rested this time so their team might look more like a pampas XV. france is also coming with a significant number of uncapped players (9 within the 28 not counting michalak who is making his return!)

I'm thinking you are spot on. The French manager has said he's taking a young squad, and the Pumas will have to feed their european based players in (i.e. rest them). They ahould be able to feild a better team now that they have players in the currie cup and have recently completed a warm up tournement.

blackcanelion wrote:Could be anyone. But if I had to pick a side more likely to lose I'd say Australia in Argentina. On the basis that they sometimes really struggle at scrum time and then the rest of game could also struggle. May not be for a year or two though.

On history SA do very well in Argentina and all blacks not so much. Australia depends on which combinator they naming. I wonder if same stats is coming in this new experience.

who's the front row for the Pumas? Not still wheeling out the old guys are you?

All rugby lovers have gotta get behind Argentinian inclusion in 4N.
If we want rugby to grow Argentina is obvious startin point.
I watched them play 3 live RWC games and them and their fans added something to comp. Technically sound and i think they have potential to add something to our game.
Let Hernandez, Contepomi, Roncero, Lobbe, Leguizamon etc do their stuff.
European clubs gotta release players for the good of the game.
I can guarantee all Argie home games will be highlights of this years fixture list.

flankertye wrote:who's the front row for the Pumas? Not still wheeling out the old guys are you?

Didn't Roncero retire after the WC?

wales606 wrote:

flankertye wrote:who's the front row for the Pumas? Not still wheeling out the old guys are you?

Didn't Roncero retire after the WC?

No. I think hes gonna do another year just not another RWC

anotherworldofpain wrote:On tangent topic will England fans always supporting the opposition team in all games because they get angry about Falklands? or this is not making a problem in rugby?

I assume you mean British (and not just English) here. Anyway, politics has nothing to do with it.

I'd like to see them do well, but it could take a few years. They may nick a home game.

no problem making in rugby. we...the british, have been at war with most nations ever conceived....but we get on well now.

'cept for you ex-colonies....for some reason you just don't like us...(insert upside down smiley here...still can't make it work!!)

Argentina have announced two squads - a mainy young (excluding Comptepomi and Roncero who make their swansongs on home soil), home based squad for the visits of Italy and France.

Then a T14 dominated squad for the Quad Nations. Some players are in both, but not many.

anotherworldofpain wrote:On tangent topic will England fans always supporting the opposition team in all games because they get angry about Falklands? or this is not making a problem in rugby?

It's the Argentinians that get wound up about the Falklands, not to be disrespectful to the 225 British soldiers that died but the Falklands was a Tuesday morning war compared to many of the wars Britain has been involved in.

Besides your never angry when you win and force the other nation to surrender. All the humiliations and ignominies of the war belong to Argentina, having a garrison fly a white flag, so SAS Colonel Rose approaches the Argentinian unit to accept their surrender, only for them to open fire on him at point blank range, executing him under a flag to truce.

Then during the battle of Pebble Island they used Hospital ships in a battle having them fire and use their search lights while sailing in front of the British fleet knowing the British fleet would not fire on any ship with a red cross on it.

Not to mention the battle of Goose Green where 1,200 of them were defending against 500 of our attackers and we still won with only 17 deaths, with 1,000 of them surrendering.

The reason they are so angry and hateful of us is even when they broke all the rules of engagement they still lost. 649 killed, 100 Air craft destroyed, 9 ships destroyed including their flag ship, over 1,000 wounded and well over 11,000 taken prisoner.

Anyway back to rugby, I think they will be lambs to the slaughter in all honesty. Most of their players have played an entire northern hemisphere season now they go straight into the southern hemisphere one when they should be in their off season having a rest!

Alyn,

The real difference is that theres little politically to gain from making a big hoohaa about it here whereas in Argentina its pretty much the only way to get hold a government together. Simon Weston made a pretty good career out of it all mind.

AlynDavies wrote: All the humiliations and ignominies of the war belong to Argentina, having a garrison fly a white flag, so SAS Colonel Rose approaches the Argentinian unit to accept their surrender, only for them to open fire on him at point blank range, executing him under a flag to truce.

Sorry but when exactly was he gunned down/executed? Im a little confused because hes still alive. I know the SAS are hard bar stewards but thats pretty impressive

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Sorry but when exactly was he gunned down/executed? Im a little confused because hes still alive. I know the SAS are hard bar stewards but thats pretty impressive

Your right on the Colonels surename for some reason I rememberd it wrong.

It was as D Company moved forward close to a position by the airstrip that an incident occurred, which 2 Para referred to as ‘The White Flag’ incident. Lieutenant Jim Barry and a sergeant from D Company were killed while taking the surrender of Argentine soldiers flying the White Flag

There we go.