Mike Brown out for the rest of the SA tour

http://www.bathrugby.com/news/team-news/abendanon-joins-england-on-south-africa-tour

Breaking news.

Fracture and ligament damage to Brown's right thumb leads to Nick Abendanon (Benders off of Don't Drop the Egg) being flown in as cover.

After Brown's showing in the opening test this seems like a significant blow to England, though perhaps not life-threatening. Obviously gutted for Brown.

Thoughts?

Brown had a very good game - shame for him

They're dropping like flies...

Not convinced on his replacement though...Abendanon...really?

The backline could be radically different

Sorry to hear it, may be biased but thought he had a good match too. Wade time?

By flown in I obviously didn't realise he was already there...

As a Bath fan I'm pleased but I feel it's unlikely he'll play much of a role in the tour. Hope I'm wrong.

Might get a go in the second midweek game.

Do we really need another fullback though? Couldn't we have brought in a better second row enforcer, that would have been better.

Zander wrote:Do we really need another fullback though? Couldn't we have brought in a better second row enforcer, that would have been better.

Totally agree

I'm not totally convinced that the second row options left behind are all that better than the ones we've got out there, and anyone getting called up at this point isn't going to play in a test anyway.

The way things are going one of the locks will get injured anyway

thomh wrote:I'm not totally convinced that the second row options left behind are all that better than the ones we've got out there, and anyone getting called up at this point isn't going to play in a test anyway.

agreed.

this 'garvey will solve everything is getting a little annoying'

I certainly dont think this " Garvey will solve everything " is going to help loads....but it will just give another oiption...and people have rightly suggested others like Attwood etc...

I would certainly have seen it as a better exercise than another back in...

England's locks did ok. The causes of defeat lay elsewhere. We were never going to carry our way out of our own 22 against that pack, Garvey or no Garvey.

I've thought for a while that Abendanon's best chance of an international career was on the left wing. If England want to continue with 2 fullbacks that could be an option, although I guess Goode will get a well deserved chance to start a test.

I rate Mike shame he misses out on the rest of the tour.

Foden to FB

Joseph to wing (he looked sharp when he came on)

sorted

Hmmm so foden is back to being number one with Goode the mid week side.
Garvey won't solve everything, but his omission is a huge concern

GeordieFalcon wrote:I certainly dont think this " Garvey will solve everything " is going to help loads....but it will just give another oiption...and people have rightly suggested others like Attwood etc...

I would certainly have seen it as a better exercise than another back in...

If you brought Garvey in he would have to replace either Palmer or Botha to get into the 22. I dont think he is as mobile as Botha so will not be able to be as effective in defence as Botha. Then I thought Palmer did well when he came on and has the ability to run a lineout would be crucial if Parling got injured. Yes we got knocked back a few times but in defence we weren't helped by poor clearances and when carrying when we manouvered the ball in the forwards a bit more instead of one out hitting we were a lot more effective. Thats what we need to do next week.

Would bringing in Garvey to pretty much train with a team do him any good? I dont think so. At least Abendanon might get some game time.

It would be great to see Abendanon finally get his shot - I think he's a far better player than his international record (or lack thereof) would suggest.

Yeah he's improved his defence hasn't he?

Armitage should have got the call ahead of Abendanon. Care has been forgiven his (far more serious) mis-steps, there's no reason Delon shouldn't have been called up. He's not actually played in france YET.

Wasn't Bendy called up because he was in the area?

In fairness Abendanon is far more likely to be seen playing for the mid-week team, freeing up Goode to be starting FB next week. Given that there is no point in calling up a player who won't be available for the next couple of years to play mid-week games.

Yeah there's an element of knee-jerk "Bendy's here and we've lost a fullback so let's just call him in" which suggests that he comes in at the bottom of the pecking order.

Having said that, as a fullback with a lot of game time on the wing, he'd replace what Foden was doing in theory if not in practice. But this is very unlikely to happen, however much I'd like him to add to his two caps 5 years ago or so. At what, 25, he's still young.

But then you'd probably rather see JJ than Bendy on the wing starting in a test vs SA. As I said, unlikely to add to his caps I feel.

why wasn't Jonny May wasn't called up as a replacement.
I was amazed he wasn't in the original squad..

with a broken thumb:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18387415

Shame for the lad, bad enough that a classy operator like Foden is around but then to get injured when you have a chance to cement a place is really unlucky.

Nick Abendanon, who was on holiday in SA, has been called up and increases the Saffer contingent in the party.

I think that is a big loss for england, he was my star performer for england on the weekend.

Sorry missed that therer was another thread, can you merge biltong?

He seem to pull away from the attempt tackle (I say kindly) when SA crash in for the clinch try and shaking the hand maybe he did then?

If he break the thumb then he do well to staying to the field for last minutes. Unless he go off already and I dont notice at the time.

Abendanon really? I would be incline to stop the experiementing about and get in Foden FB and Strettle to the wing.

Will do LT.

anotherworldofpain wrote:He seem to pull away from the attempt tackle (I say kindly) when SA crash in for the clinch try and shaking the hand maybe he did then?

If he break the thumb then he do well to staying to the field for last minutes. Unless he go off already and I dont notice at the time.

Abendanon really? I would be incline to stop the experiementing about and get in Foden FB and Strettle to the wing.

I disagree. Looked to me tlike he was trying to cut JdV, which he almost did. The slight step infield by JdV just through the tackle out so although he was flattened could slide to the line.

I agree he may have done the thumb in this incidwent though.

AWOP Brown went off to be replaced by Joseph late on didn't he?

Abendanon will bolster the numbers for the mid week team and no more. He's a thoroughly average player who has some pace and a decent step. I hope Johnny May will be left in England to rest up and get on a good coniditioning course so that he'll be a touch more solid in defence come next season. He's in a similar position to Abendanon was back in '07. Needs to improve his defence and tactical game but at the same time keep that explosive aspect to his play. Abendanon never really reached the required level but May can and hopefully should with some careful pre season coaching and preperation.

Looks like Lancaster is think about the possibility of moving Tuilagi to 12 and putting Joseph in at 13.

“Getting JJ on gave us a little spark that ignited a try,” said head coach Stuart Lancaster. “This is a tour to win games, clearly, but it’s also a tour to look at players and options. Moving Manu Tuilagi to inside centre and having someone like JJ at 13 who can make an outside break is an option.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/9323398/Jonathan-Josephs-golden-touch-can-add-an-attacking-edge-for-England-in-the-second-Test-against-South-Africa.html

Players really are starting to drop. Did anyone else realise that Launchberry has also returned home?? I've only just found out- who has been called up to replace him? Real shame for Brown- thought he had a good solid game, and his howitzer of a boot came in handy. Foden to FB for me, and look at getting Joseph involved.

bluestonevedder wrote:Players really are starting to drop. Did anyone else realise that Launchberry has also returned home?? I've only just found out- who has been called up to replace him? Real shame for Brown- thought he had a good solid game, and his howitzer of a boot came in handy. Foden to FB for me, and look at getting Joseph involved.

It was Jamie Gibson who was called up for Launchbury.

Thanks Zander. Been away and completely out of touch with rugby news. Shame for Launch, was looking forward to seeing him in a mid-week.

Gibson is good cover for him, although he's young and would get blown away by the sort of physicality we saw on Saturday.

I actually thought Launchbury was in the squad as a second row who could cover six as he more of an enforcer but he was actually part of the backrow. Shame, he could have filled the enforcer role we badly need at the moment.

Definitely. He's being played at 6 a lot by Wasps as well, although like you, I'm hoping he'll be a lock in the future. I'm hoping he's just improving his trade by playing there for a while- improving tackling, carrying and rucking. He's certainly one for the future.

Zander wrote:Looks like Lancaster is think about the possibility of moving Tuilagi to 12 and putting Joseph in at 13.

“Getting JJ on gave us a little spark that ignited a try,” said head coach Stuart Lancaster. “This is a tour to win games, clearly, but it’s also a tour to look at players and options. Moving Manu Tuilagi to inside centre and having someone like JJ at 13 who can make an outside break is an option.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/9323398/Jonathan-Josephs-golden-touch-can-add-an-attacking-edge-for-England-in-the-second-Test-against-South-Africa.html

That depends on what he was asked. If he was asked whether he would move Manu to 12 then he hasn't discounted it but hasn't backed it either. If he was asked what he would do about Barritt then it's probably high up there in terms of his plans. I for one would prefer Allen to get a shot. Regarding Brown I also would move Foden back to 15 and have Joseph on the wing. Not his primary position but he played a few games there for irish breaking on the scene and has the speed. Work his way in to the starting team. I'd rather Joseph play outside a decent 12/13 combo (that works very well at club level) rather than at his better position, outside a guy not used to playing 12.

Gutted for Brown, he looked like he'd hurt it the moment he attempted the tackle but I'd hoped it was fine as he carried on. At least he has proved he can hack it at Int level and maybe by the AI's he'll be able to come in to a slightly more consolidated team.

I'd now go with Foden at 15 and Joseph at 11, he can interchange with Tuilaigi during attacks any way and just getting a start will be a real boost for him.

I'd also hope we play Allan at 12 with Wade on the bench now. Manu/Farrel can cover 12 and Joseph covers 13.

yappysnap wrote:I'd also hope we play Allan at 12 with Wade on the bench now. Manu/Farrel can cover 12 and Joseph covers 13.

Yappy, you really need to start spelling Tequila Tone's name right (Allen)

If Wade is on the bench, who covers 15?

If Wade is on the bench, who covers 15?

LT, shove Farrell there in an emergency. He's fair under the high ball and has a good kicking game as well as offering good defence. It lacks a bit in attacking threat but it would only be in an emergency. I think Alex Goode is likely to be involved somewhere though, a favourite of Lancaster's from the Saxons and had a very good season (again) with Sarries.

Shame for Brown and England.

According to the BBC:

Bath's Nick Abendanon, who was already on holiday in South Africa, has been called up as a replacement and will join the squad on Monday.

Is it just coincidence that he happened to be on holiday in South Africa?

At the last tour (the runny tummy tour) Matt Stevens was on holiday, got called up, and was one of our best players. Of course, he was visiting relatives.

LT, tbh I was thinking either Farrell or Flood could cover there in an emergency, Jason Robinson played FB very well too so maybe Wade? I'll try to spell Allun's name right next time

Disappointing for Brown, but as well as he played I don't think Foden on the wing is a great long-term option. I'd rather keep Foden at 15 and bring through new wingers. Then we have quality cover in case of injury/loss of form and keeps them all on their toes. Shoehorning everybody in doesn't usually work.

As for wingers, hopefully Sharples will not be forgotten following his injury which ruled him out of this tour, SL said he wouldn't be. May should also get a chance soon, he has the pace and power to be perfect for the international game as long as he keeps his focus. Wade should get a chance in a test, I suspect he will lack the necessary physicality but he should be given a chance to disprove this. The cupboards are far from bare, SL just needs to encourage those inside to have a bit more adventure.

Alex_Germany wrote:Shame for Brown and England.

According to the BBC:

Bath's Nick Abendanon, who was already on holiday in South Africa, has been called up as a replacement and will join the squad on Monday.

Is it just coincidence that he happened to be on holiday in South Africa?

At the last tour (the runny tummy tour) Matt Stevens was on holiday, got called up, and was one of our best players. Of course, he was visiting relatives.

As is Bendy

Is "Bendy" South African? Could we get Botha, Stevens, Barrit and Abendanon into the same team? (I don't object to South Africans playing for England, as long as they're English - if you get my meaning).

I thought Bendy was in SA for Pieter Dixon's (ex-Bath hooker) wedding?
He does have Saffa hertiage, although he was schooled in England.

You would imagine he will only be in the midweek team anyway, but he has played pretty well over the last 2 seasons and been far less flaky than before, so he deserves some recognition I think.

Zander wrote:Looks like Lancaster is think about the possibility of moving Tuilagi to 12 and putting Joseph in at 13.

“Getting JJ on gave us a little spark that ignited a try,” said head coach Stuart Lancaster. “This is a tour to win games, clearly, but it’s also a tour to look at players and options. Moving Manu Tuilagi to inside centre and having someone like JJ at 13 who can make an outside break is an option.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/9323398/Jonathan-Josephs-golden-touch-can-add-an-attacking-edge-for-England-in-the-second-Test-against-South-Africa.html

That's what I hope to see. There's absolutely no chance of Allen starting at 12 this Saturday. He isn't even first choice 12 in the midweek side.