This'll be fun : Woodward warning for Gatland

by Portnoy Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:27 pm

http://www.espnscrum.com/lions-tour-2013/rugby/story/165882.html

Sir Clive Woodward believes next year's British & Irish Lions tour could severely impact on Wales' hopes of success at the 2015 Rugby World Cup.

Woodward, who took charge of the Lions for what proved to be a disastrous tour of New Zealand in 2005, has backed Wales coach Warren Gatland to lead them to Australia next year but warned that the honour may come at a price.

"Whoever coaches the Lions, and I think it should be Warren, has to be really careful," Woodward told BBC Wales. "Wales have an outstanding team and, I think, they could go all the way in 2015, and you don't want anything to get in the way of that.

"He has to manage that process and almost has to get the Welsh team to really want him to do the Lions. They have to understand that stuff is going to happen on a Lions trip that can go wrong and that means your mojo isn't intact."

Gatland, who steered Wales to the Six Nations Grand Slam earlier this year, is widely expected to be confirmed as the Lions coach with negotiations for a temporary release from the Welsh Rugby Union already reportedly underway. The Lions committee are reportedly demanding the coach dedicates themselves completely to the job in the year leading up to the tour with a recent domestic injury sustained by Gatland preventing this and apparently delaying his appointment.

Gatland's predecessor Graham Henry attempted to combine both roles in the lead up to the 2001 Lions tour of Australia and a series defeat against the Wallabies was followed by his resignation from the Wales job a few months later.

However, Woodward is convinced that Gatland is the right man to lead the Lions Down Under. "I would say Warren is definitely the right man out of all the Home Nations candidates," he said. "He is the stand out candidate, but doing the Lions is not easy and there is no doubt it could affect your home team.

"You have to manage the Lions; you're not picking Welsh players and have to get on with players you normally go to war with. You are not there to be popular and you have to make the tough calls."

by gowales Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:35 pm

He's got a point

by HERSH Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:40 pm

SCW knows his stuff, I also think his right.

But we'll have to wait and see.

by Portnoy Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:43 pm

gowales wrote:He's got a point

Of course he has gowales. The overemphasised glitch on his cv is his Lions tour. I'd have him back to put his butt on Squeaky's face in a nanosecond.

by Portnoy Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:10 pm

However, having said that, Oz really are ripe and ready there for a right royal stuffing and a side overstuffed with Welshmen would be brave - prior to an RWC.

by gowales Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:11 pm

I don't know, by this time next year if Australia can get their full strength team out then it's going to be very difficult for the Lions. I feel most people greatly underestimate the Aussies.

by Tattie Scones RRN Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:19 pm

If the Lions are to beat Australia next year, they need to stuff the team full of Scottish players. They know how to win down under.

If Rennie is playing, Pocock will pump his breeks full.

This is a joke by the way before the Welsh start going on about B teams, weather, injuries, refs etc etc.

Ale

by **LondonTiger** Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:22 pm

The Lions seem to have struggled to be greater than the sum of the parts in the pro era, so whether they can win the series is dubious. If they do I hope they win the first two tests as there is a strong chance I can get out there for two weeks leading up to the second test. Very Happy

As to Gatland and Wales. Well managing the Lions will:

a) Interfere to a degree with the management of Wales
b) Change the relationship he has with the welsh players. While a decent chunk of them will play in the test side, there will be a sizeable number who miss out and some who do not make the touring party at all. This will have an impact, and Gatland needs to find ways to minimise any negative affects.

by Gordy Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:26 pm

Sir Clive is spot on, as usual.

by TycroesOsprey Mon 18 Jun 2012, 3:04 pm

HERSH wrote:SCW knows his stuff, I also think his right.

But we'll have to wait and see.

Yes I agree HERSH, SCW is right Wales could go all the way in 2015.

I think Gatland will be just fine, espescially if the slump in performance under Howley continues. Henry was too concerned about English opinion and suffered the indignity of Healey et al spouting off and totally disrupting the tour. I cant see taht happening again.

by offload Mon 18 Jun 2012, 3:10 pm

Well, the two mistakes Woodward made was 1. He took too many English players and 2. He picked them. I don't think Warren will fall for that but I hope he appreciated the advice none the less.
Wink

by RubyGuby Mon 18 Jun 2012, 3:10 pm

Woodward giving advice about Lions tours Yahoo

Didn't he get a job with Bily Smarts lot after his Lions debacle Yahoo

by HERSH Mon 18 Jun 2012, 3:11 pm

But then again SCW has been out of the game for too long, so maybe he is way of the mark thumbsup

by ChequeredJersey Mon 18 Jun 2012, 3:22 pm

Sir Clive and Henry are both annoying me with their bloody preaching to every manager going. SCW, rugby has changed since you led an excellent collection of players to a RWC. Henry, you also relied on your players and coaches and frankly screwed up with an even better set of ABs than those you won it with at home.

by SecretFly Mon 18 Jun 2012, 3:24 pm

I see Woodward as a perfect suit talking accounts with a gorilla in a cage waiting for the keeper to come and unlock it.

Gatland will smile with deadpan disinterest and then..well go for a p................................ee

by KickAndChase Mon 18 Jun 2012, 3:29 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:If the Lions are to beat Australia next year, they need to stuff the team full of Scottish players. They know how to win down under.

If Rennie is playing, Pocock will pump his breeks full.

This is a joke by the way before the Welsh start going on about B teams, weather, injuries, refs etc etc.

To be honest if whoever runs it doesn't put Rennie at least in the squad, given his performance against Pocock, then they're utterly loony. Or just effing biased.

Add to that Gray, Ford (maybe), maybe even Laidlaw for Australia by then (!!) and Visser (!!!) Wink

- that's as packed as it'll ever get.

by ChequeredJersey Mon 18 Jun 2012, 3:32 pm

KickAndChase wrote:
Tattie Scones RRN wrote:If the Lions are to beat Australia next year, they need to stuff the team full of Scottish players. They know how to win down under.

If Rennie is playing, Pocock will pump his breeks full.

This is a joke by the way before the Welsh start going on about B teams, weather, injuries, refs etc etc.

To be honest if whoever runs it doesn't put Rennie at least in the squad, given his performance against Pocock, then they're utterly loony. Or just effing biased.

Add to that Gray, Ford (maybe), maybe even Laidlaw for Australia by then (!!) and Visser (!!!) - that's as packed as it'll ever get.

What about Kelly Brown?

by ChequeredJersey Mon 18 Jun 2012, 3:32 pm

Outside bet for captain!

by RubyGuby Mon 18 Jun 2012, 3:43 pm

Fxxx knows how many Scots wil be put forward if they manage to win a game next year thumbsup

by SecretFly Mon 18 Jun 2012, 3:45 pm

Fxxx? Lord, he's just another know-it-all like Woodward. Don't believe everything that guy says, Ruby

by Portnoy Mon 18 Jun 2012, 4:01 pm

Being old-fashioned I'd prefer a Lions tour to be led by a British Isles man.

Kiddley, Robinsbrawn or Lancawster would be good.

Even TV pundits Stuart Brains and Jonny Daffyd couldn't effup a clean sweep.

by RubyGuby Mon 18 Jun 2012, 4:04 pm

Fly - I'm just gullable mate, I go for the bait everytime, should change my name to RubyFish - I'm with Portnoy on this one and would prefer a British coaching team and players actually; so no Barritts and Bothas for me for the Lions - shameful thumbsup

by SecretFly Mon 18 Jun 2012, 4:22 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Fly - I'm just gullable mate, I go for the bait everytime, should change my name to RubyFish - I'm with Portnoy on this one and would prefer a British coaching team and players actually; so no Barritts and Bothas for me for the Lions - shameful

I think a stiff-upper-lip behind the scenes management for the pool heating and general good time feel of sandwiches and towel slapping on deckchairs.

Then I think Gatland and his coaches will do for the on-field coaching. He's a gruff man but I like the cut of his jib.

The some kilts for the baggage, spuds for the jokes, and 74 Welshmen to bring it all back home.

Now that's as fair as I can be under the circumstances. Someone called JD is holding a .357 magnum to my head at the moment and telling me to read this thing.

by RubyGuby Mon 18 Jun 2012, 4:27 pm

Is the Magnum white or milk chocolate? thumbsup

by SecretFly Mon 18 Jun 2012, 4:31 pm

Milk obviously..he's knows I like me cows.

by RubyGuby Mon 18 Jun 2012, 4:35 pm

I'm more of a sheep man, but you probably guessed that Wales

by SecretFly Mon 18 Jun 2012, 4:36 pm

RubyGuby wrote:I'm more of a sheep man, but you probably guessed that

I don't ever hold no grudge against another man's kink, Ruby. My blessings to you and the sheep.

by dogtooth Tue 19 Jun 2012, 12:50 am

gatland should take the lions job. a change is as good as a rest. he will come back recovered from injury, refreshed and ready to take wales to their best rwc yet.

by mowgli Tue 19 Jun 2012, 5:49 am

The only advice from SCW Gatts might listen to is that he should get a tradesman to clean his windows

by fa0019 Tue 19 Jun 2012, 7:09 am

perhaps he should also advise him on how to beat AUS away from home?

by SecretFly Tue 19 Jun 2012, 10:56 am

perhaps he should also advise him about the logistics of getting 12,000 suitcases through customs

by Hookisms and Hyperbole Tue 19 Jun 2012, 10:59 am

RubyGuby wrote:Fly - I'm just gullable mate, I go for the bait everytime, should change my name to RubyFish - I'm with Portnoy on this one and would prefer a British coaching team and players actually; so no Barritts and Bothas for me for the Lions - shameful

I await some enraged Irish posters to comment on this.

by SecretFly Tue 19 Jun 2012, 11:02 am

Let me be the first:

I'm absolutely offen......................................... *snooze*

by dragonbreath Tue 19 Jun 2012, 4:47 pm

Can't beleive I agree with SCW. This is a major cockup by the WRU yet again. We pay Gatland a furious

load of money to coach Wales and he should be focused on that and nothing else

by SecretFly Tue 19 Jun 2012, 5:48 pm

dragonbreath wrote:Can't beleive I agree with SCW. This is a major cockup by the WRU yet again. We pay Gatland a load of money to coach Wales and he should be focused on that and nothing else

Does that also mean that when a different coach goes to Australia with the Lions that you don't want any of the best Welsh players going?

I'd think that if many of them go, the best place for their national coach would be amongst them - still educating, still instructing, keeping the connection and achieving success together? No?

by dragonbreath Tue 19 Jun 2012, 11:16 pm

SecretFly wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:Can't beleive I agree with SCW. This is a major cockup by the WRU yet again. We pay Gatland a load of money to coach Wales and he should be focused on that and nothing else

Does that also mean that when a different coach goes to Australia with the Lions that you don't want any of the best Welsh players going?

I'd think that if many of them go, the best place for their national coach would be amongst them - still educating, still instructing, keeping the connection and achieving success together? No?

If they are good enough they will go. If they don't they don't, but it won't be their coach telling them are not good enough. Please don't give me all this "they are pro's and should be mature enough not to be affected if that happens" bull furious

. Gatlands job is to build this group of young players, develop their confidence and playing ability, not go swanning off on some ego trip at our expense.

by SecretFly Wed 20 Jun 2012, 9:58 am

dragonbreath wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:Can't beleive I agree with SCW. This is a major cockup by the WRU yet again. We pay Gatland a load of money to coach Wales and he should be focused on that and nothing else

Does that also mean that when a different coach goes to Australia with the Lions that you don't want any of the best Welsh players going?

I'd think that if many of them go, the best place for their national coach would be amongst them - still educating, still instructing, keeping the connection and achieving success together? No?

If they are good enough they will go. If they don't they don't, but it won't be their coach telling them are not good enough. Please don't give me all this "they are pro's and should be mature enough not to be affected if that happens" bull . Gatlands job is to build this group of young players, develop their confidence and playing ability, not go swanning off on some ego trip at our expense.

Explain the bull as we're talking about two different things - you and I. This is not about the players, about how many of them will go or are they worth the trip.
The subject is Gatland and whether or not he should choose to become Lions coach. Stick on that topic, the one I'm on before rubbishing the question. The question was should Gatland go to Australia as Lions coach. I asked the question...and I'll paraphrase it again. "IF he stays at home and does his Duty by you - and IF a big section of his Internationals are chosen by the eventual Lions coach to go on tour - IS he not missing out on being with his Internationals, maintaining the contact with his WELSH players, playing HIGH quality opponents, continuing to teach and educated hish WELSH players, and looking out for more potential in his WELSH players as they play against Australian clubs and the International side?

IF many of his top players are in Australia anyway, wouldn't it be simply better for him (as 2015 approaches) to be with them rather than at home coaching the B side? That's the question - I don't care how many Welsh players get the call, not the topic.

by dogtooth Wed 20 Jun 2012, 10:15 am

as i said before....

dogtooth wrote:gatland should take the lions job. a change is as good as a rest. he will come back recovered from injury, refreshed and ready to take wales to their best rwc yet.

by gowales Wed 20 Jun 2012, 11:39 am

F the lions. Gats should stay with Wales. End of story, Wales comes first. Let Nick Mallett or Wayne Smith coach the Lions or something, too much conflict of interest with one of the home nation coaches.

by Knackeredknees Wed 20 Jun 2012, 11:47 am

As everyone is only looking at Gatland as the coach as he's currently the only settled coach, how about looking outside the box and look and a club/region/province coach?

Connor O'Shay would be a good outside bet.

by gowales Wed 20 Jun 2012, 11:49 am

Joe Schmidt?

by Knackeredknees Wed 20 Jun 2012, 11:51 am

Cockers as well would be good.

What would be people's reaction if Deano got the job

It opens up more options and should get rid of national bias

by SecretFly Wed 20 Jun 2012, 11:53 am

Is the suggestion really that Gatland (Lions head) and forced to do an all-for-one-and-one-for-all on it (ie, forced to choose from all four nations rather than the one he coaches) would loose the respect of his adult Welsh players if he didn't choose some of them, in the process of having to choose from the four nations to keep everyone happy and yes too, perhaps make the trip a more effective one?

Adult male Welsh rugby professionals would hold it in for him that he didn't select Wales International to represent the Lions? That he didn't choose all of them? That he had to make coaching decisions about who was best to take?

I'd say grow up might be a response to that petulance.

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