Sir Clive praises Wales; the fans Response

First topic message reminder :

SCW, the guy who orchestrated the disaster Lions tour of 2005 has praised the new look Wales structure, apparently referring to the new Elite Pathways system.

The Welsh Rugby Union elite pathway structure has been singled out for praise by the former coach who masterminded England's Rugby World Cup victory.

Sir Clive Woodward says the focus on developing quality players has helped the senior national side select from strength.
He also pinpointed the establishment of a WRU National Centre of Excellence at the Vale Resort near Cardiff as a key factor.

"Wales realised the importance of quality, not quantity. They have, in partnership with the Vale of Glamorgan resort, established an outstanding centre of excellence.

"They have a highly experienced, settled administration and coaching team. Rob Howley, interim coach in Australia, proved they also have succession planning in hand. The physical condition and mindset of the Wales team have clearly changed for the better."

Woodward also supported his argument by naming key Wales players he says outline his argument.

He named George North, Alex Cuthbert and Sam Warburton who are all players developed through the age grade and 7's structures in Wales.

The former Engalnd coach was explaining his views on elite performance as a priority in player development for national teams.

Accessed at: http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/22732.php

Some fans comments, posted via WRU facebook;

Why do 22 people like this for woodwards a nobody now...

Thanks for the praise clive but this welsh team would have dwarfed, dismantled and destroyed your england side.

who'd have thought "Sir" clive would be so glowing in his praise. how the power has shifted. the autumn internationals and the 6N cant come quickly enough.

L: in your dreams dont be so silly.We can't even beat an average Aussie team

Woodward was a fantastic coach for England, he had the time to breed consistency in his side and a man who loves the game. His praise shows that with more time and consistency we will be even better after ironing out the kinks we now have. Welcome praise indeed.

One thing u could always say is the guy knew his onions and has always been complimentary of the Wales way in 2005 lions he said the welsh guys were the glue of the lions this is praise on our team and structure take the praise and thrive on it no need for english/welsh rivalry in this case

Don't need clive and his condescending blurb.we were naive and clueless against 2 of the tests v Aus. nearly men too many times. Slam or not

ffs-ple have lost track of reality, the welsh team still aint beat a SH team away in 40yrs,woodwood is possibly the greatest coach of the entire history of the NH, he's defo the only singler nation coach to go to NZ and beat them on their own patch, ple here should give more respect to this guy, when we beat a SH team then we can start talking billy big bolix! honestly until we learn to win games with a similar mentality to englands team of 2000-2004 we've nothing to shout about, why oh why do we get so carried away with coming close but never getting over the winning line-woodwood was a winner give the guy his dues-period...............​..

I love our national team. And think we are better than alot of the top 8 teams. But we cant claim to be a heavyweight until we beat the southern hemisphere teams more than just once in a blue moon. No matter how much praise they get from anyone. And that includes sir Clive. We'll see where we really are this autumn. Good luck wales.

quote ''the physical condition AND MINDSET of the wales team has clearlly changed for the better''.........although woodward isnt the best of ''friends'' to welsh rugby he is definitly bang-on here the majority of people who really know rugby have known for years that our inability to get over the s.h hurdle is more down to a phsycological factor rather than being able to match them in strength speed or stratergy im sure this has been aknowleged by our coaching team but untill the boys really start believing, trully believing, that we can beat these so called super powers then it will allways be a case of ow so near...but in the same breath after the w.c semi's the grand slam and the 'ow soo near' tour the weight of belief behind the boys(and us fans) is continued to grow n grow,the young talent we have is emmense just gotta add to unshakeable belief and we will be unstoppable.........stroll​ on the autumn internationals............

Quotations taken from facebook.com/WelshRugbyUnion.

I welcome Sir Clives praise. He clearly knows his stuff . The Regional academies are working and now they are supplemented by the pathways that should feed better players into them. There has also been an U18 tour of SA announced, where a 'development XV will face SA, Eng and Fra.

Gonna be honest mate- Your window cleaner is more likely to lie to you. Sir Clive wouldnt talk to you let alone lie!

But on a serious note. Why dont you re read his comments from a different outlook as if someone you didnt know said it.. Why the hate? I am really not sure what he did that was so wrong

No hatred.Simple recognition.

majesticimperialman wrote:And if i am not mistaken Warren Gatland as been in charge of Wales longer the SCW was in charge of England.

Without even looking it up for exact dates Woodward 2 WC's coached in, Gatland one. Gatland's first game was 2008 so only been here four years. Where did you get your numbers from for that?

risca kind of immaterial- if gats wins one it will be in a longer period of time anyway

mystiroakey wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:It seems you can get into bother for giving the Welsh either not enough or too much respect.

Very difficult to get it right as both the Aussies and SCW are discovering. Perhaps if the WRU could publish a list of 'approved' phrases we might safely navigate the dangerous waters of how to comment on these chaps.

lols

Lols? Oh dear me. 35 aren't you?

thats right risca

lols

gowales wrote:The only problem i have with Howley is that the Welsh backs haven't really shown anything since he's been in charge of them from 2008.

Very true. We still don't see much in the way of back moves and that's down to Howley. My view is that he could be getting a hell of a lot more out of them.

Some of the vitriol about that lion’s tour does make me laugh. I'll accept that our hero Sir Clive made a pretty pish poor job of the tour but you have to look at what he had to work with. The way people talk on here it's like we were favourites to win before SCW got his dirty mitts on the tour.

I'll pander to the masses and accept the (flawed) opinion that all England's players on that tour were past it so let’s just take a look at who that leaves in the squad:

Brian O'Driscoll, Chris Cusiter, Denis Hickie, Donncha O'Callaghan, Dwayne Peel, Gareth Cooper, Gareth Thomas, Gavin Henson, Geordan Murphy, Gethin Jenkins, Gordon Bulloch, Gordon D'Arcy, John Hayes, Malcolm O'Kelly, Martyn Williams, Michael Owen, Paul O'Connell, Ronan O'Gara, Shane Byrne, Shane Horgan, Shane Williams, Simon Taylor, Stephen Jones, Tom Shanklin

If any of you can honestly look at that list and name more than 4 players fit to mount a serious challenge against that excellent all blacks team I'd be surprised. I'd also be interested to know what players he should have picked that would have made such a big difference at the time?

No Lions team would have come close to NZ then, that was one of the best squads i think there has ever been in rugby history

I think the Lion's chances on that tour were always pretty slim no matter what .However much of the vitriol is down to the fact that it was organised more like a political campaign.

I mean not only taking Alastair Campbell (whose ignorance was such that he was actually suprised that rugby was front page news in NZ ) but getting him to make a pre match speech to the players where he felt the need to bring the Kosovo conflict in to it tells you that the heart and soul of that tour just wasn't there .

Yep, Pontylad hits nail square on the bonce there.

Where was that then Biltong?

Must have missed that one, I thought this was going rather well for a sort-of-vague-but-inevitably-linked-Wales-v-England-thread, no?

Moved them mate.

Cleared them out with the efficiency of Bakkies in his prime?

Bakkies has nothing on me mate, I use both shoulders with my head as the battering ram.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

gowales wrote:The only problem i have with Howley is that the Welsh backs haven't really shown anything since he's been in charge of them from 2008.

Very true. We still don't see much in the way of back moves and that's down to Howley. My view is that he could be getting a hell of a lot more out of them.

Maybe Mark Jones former winger now Scarlets coach should come in instead. Scarlets have a great open attacking game. Or maybe Rhys from the ospreys?

The thing is, Howley has next to no coaching experience outside the Wales setup (correct me if I'm wrong). He's hardly tried and tested, is he? Maybe we shouldn't be surprised that we're not seeing as much as we might from the backs.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:The thing is, Howley has next to no coaching experience outside the Wales setup (correct me if I'm wrong). He's hardly tried and tested, is he? Maybe we shouldn't be surprised that we're not seeing as much as we might from the backs.

I think your barking up the wrong tree.

There is little Howley or any other coach can do once the teams are on the field. In the amateur days a clever back line move might have created a score. Today's defences aren't so easily fooled, attacking play is about moving the opposition and creating weaknesses.

Wales biggest problem in attack is a lack of patience at halfback that is different to the amount of patience they had in the RWC, and not ruling the breakdown. In Australia and in the six nations we were conversing far too many penalties at rucks and not turning over any good ball.

I don't think Welsh fans should be too down-hearted. True, the Aussies were massively depleted in terms of injuries and didn't play very well (bar Genia) but Wales were definitely closer to them than usual.

They do lack the depth to challenge the big three but did well to over-achieve and contest a close(ish) series.

I agree with maesteg that Gatland and Howley can only coach with what they've got.

You are a very bad man!

We're going to have to disagree, Maesteg. The players take the field with the gameplan / tactics / backline moves that Gatland and Howley have given them. If the players execute them to the letter and they don't work, who's to blame? We could be trying so much more in attack than we do currently. You say it's about moving the defence around, but where are the dummy runners, the switch moves? Ireland have Sexton running on the loop but when was the last time you saw Priestland do it in a Wales shirt? These moves might not lead directly to tries, but they'll put uncertainty in the defenders' minds. We need to do much more of that.

maestegmafia wrote:
Clive Woodward took over after two successful regimes that put everything in place, they did the hard yards internationally, even the england captain martin Johnson quite verhmently stated so. "winning the RWC was 90% outstanding players and 10% good coaching and the correct environment, and im being generous to the coaches.

Is that the same Martin Johnson that was so successful as England manager? His view that the coaches can only add 10% might indicate why he added so little.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:We're going to have to disagree, Maesteg. The players take the field with the gameplan / tactics / backline moves that Gatland and Howley have given them. If the players execute them to the letter and they don't work, who's to blame? We could be trying so much more in attack than we do currently. You say it's about moving the defence around, but where are the dummy runners, the switch moves? Ireland have Sexton running on the loop but when was the last time you saw Priestland do it in a Wales shirt? These moves might not lead directly to tries, but they'll put uncertainty in the defenders' minds. We need to do much more of that.

Tactics, backline moves etc etc as you mention are all relative to the opposition and to what type of ball your getting and how often.

Copying Jonny Sexton loop passes won't win matches. Set backline plays won't either.

I guess our opinions do differ, no dis respect.