If Ferrer beats Murray then he is the real number 4

Beat him easily at the French, could beat him in the quarters here and he would in most peoples eyes be the world number 4.

The victor in 2 out 3 surfaces in grandslams proves you are better, no discussion.

Ferrer or Tsonga for the finals?

Murray's Wimbledon I feel. Murray has given him a mauling on the hard stuff.

If the roof closes over it will be bye bye Ferrer

Nonsense. If he overtakes him in the rankings he'll be the real number 4.

That's like saying Rafa is the real number 1 cos he's beaten Novak 3 times in a row. The rankings and nothing else define what number you are in the game.

I do recall the nonsense about "#1 in the locker room".

IIRC it was Simon Reed about Murray in 2008. Cursed Andys career for years.

Danny_1982 wrote:Nonsense. If he overtakes him in the rankings he'll be the real number 4.

That's like saying Rafa is the real number 1 cos he's beaten Novak 3 times in a row. The rankings and nothing else define what number you are in the game.

Nadal only beat him on 1 surface though, read what I wrote:

2 out of 3 SURFACES

If Ferrer beats Murray he'll be really close to being the #4 rank anyway, so I don't know what the fuss would be about.

bogbrush wrote:If Ferrer beats Murray he'll be really close to being the #4 rank anyway, so I don't know what the fuss would be about.

Lots of Murray fans laughed and mocked at the idea of Ferrer catching him a few months ago, now they'll be panicking.

legendkillarV2 wrote:Murray's Wimbledon I feel. Murray has given him a mauling on the hard stuff.

If the roof closes over it will be bye bye Ferrer

Not necessarily, they closed the roof in 2009 against Warinka and it slowed the courts right down and Murrau only just got through in 5.

I think this will be a tough test. 4 or 5 sets Murray the winner.

Super D Boon wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Murray's Wimbledon I feel. Murray has given him a mauling on the hard stuff.

If the roof closes over it will be bye bye Ferrer

Not necessarily, they closed the roof in 2009 against Warinka and it slowed the courts right down and Murrau only just got through in 5.

I think this will be a tough test. 4 or 5 sets Murray the winner.

The same Murray who made Baghdatis look like a top 10 player a round ago?

Very unlikely mate.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Murray's Wimbledon I feel. Murray has given him a mauling on the hard stuff.

If the roof closes over it will be bye bye Ferrer

Not necessarily, they closed the roof in 2009 against Warinka and it slowed the courts right down and Murrau only just got through in 5.

I think this will be a tough test. 4 or 5 sets Murray the winner.

The same Murray who made Baghdatis look like a top 10 player a round ago?

Very unlikely mate.

I take it you like Ferrer for the Semis? Murray played better today.

Super D Boon wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Murray's Wimbledon I feel. Murray has given him a mauling on the hard stuff.

If the roof closes over it will be bye bye Ferrer

Not necessarily, they closed the roof in 2009 against Warinka and it slowed the courts right down and Murrau only just got through in 5.

I think this will be a tough test. 4 or 5 sets Murray the winner.

But he's not playing Wawrinka

HE... where art thou?

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Murray's Wimbledon I feel. Murray has given him a mauling on the hard stuff.

If the roof closes over it will be bye bye Ferrer

Not necessarily, they closed the roof in 2009 against Warinka and it slowed the courts right down and Murrau only just got through in 5.

I think this will be a tough test. 4 or 5 sets Murray the winner.

The same Murray who made Baghdatis look like a top 10 player a round ago?

Very unlikely mate.

Like the same Ferrer who struggled against an exhibition Roddick?



Don't be so stoopid!

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Murray's Wimbledon I feel. Murray has given him a mauling on the hard stuff.

If the roof closes over it will be bye bye Ferrer

Not necessarily, they closed the roof in 2009 against Warinka and it slowed the courts right down and Murrau only just got through in 5.

I think this will be a tough test. 4 or 5 sets Murray the winner.

The same Murray who made Baghdatis look like a top 10 player a round ago?

Very unlikely mate.

Like the same Ferrer who struggled against an exhibition Roddick?



Don't be so stoopid!

The same dropping down the rankings Roddick who in 2009 destroyed Murray in his "easy" semi final?

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Murray's Wimbledon I feel. Murray has given him a mauling on the hard stuff.

If the roof closes over it will be bye bye Ferrer

Not necessarily, they closed the roof in 2009 against Warinka and it slowed the courts right down and Murrau only just got through in 5.

I think this will be a tough test. 4 or 5 sets Murray the winner.

The same Murray who made Baghdatis look like a top 10 player a round ago?

Very unlikely mate.

Like the same Ferrer who struggled against an exhibition Roddick?



Don't be so stoopid!

Hardly a struggle against a former three time finalist who recently won Eastbourne!! . I thought Ferrer looked pretty good.

Josiah does have a point in that Murray can make relatively ordinary players look better than they are. He just let's them dictate too much. However, I think Murray will beat Ferrer but it will be tough.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Murray's Wimbledon I feel. Murray has given him a mauling on the hard stuff.

If the roof closes over it will be bye bye Ferrer

Not necessarily, they closed the roof in 2009 against Warinka and it slowed the courts right down and Murrau only just got through in 5.

I think this will be a tough test. 4 or 5 sets Murray the winner.

The same Murray who made Baghdatis look like a top 10 player a round ago?

Very unlikely mate.

Like the same Ferrer who struggled against an exhibition Roddick?



Don't be so stoopid!

The same dropping down the rankings Roddick who in 2009 destroyed Murray in his "easy" semi final?

So 2009 is relevent to 2012 because?????

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Murray's Wimbledon I feel. Murray has given him a mauling on the hard stuff.

If the roof closes over it will be bye bye Ferrer

Not necessarily, they closed the roof in 2009 against Warinka and it slowed the courts right down and Murrau only just got through in 5.

I think this will be a tough test. 4 or 5 sets Murray the winner.

The same Murray who made Baghdatis look like a top 10 player a round ago?

Very unlikely mate.

Like the same Ferrer who struggled against an exhibition Roddick?



Don't be so stoopid!

The same dropping down the rankings Roddick who in 2009 destroyed Murray in his "easy" semi final?

Really, you are using a match 3 years ago as you argument?

Murray also beat Roddick in straight sets in 2006, what is your point?

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Murray's Wimbledon I feel. Murray has given him a mauling on the hard stuff.

If the roof closes over it will be bye bye Ferrer

Not necessarily, they closed the roof in 2009 against Warinka and it slowed the courts right down and Murrau only just got through in 5.

I think this will be a tough test. 4 or 5 sets Murray the winner.

The same Murray who made Baghdatis look like a top 10 player a round ago?

Very unlikely mate.

Like the same Ferrer who struggled against an exhibition Roddick?



Don't be so stoopid!

The same dropping down the rankings Roddick who in 2009 destroyed Murray in his "easy" semi final?

So 2009 is relevent to 2012 because?????

Baghdatis hasn't achieved anything in tennis and Murray made him look like a contender.

Roddick has a slam and 3 times Wimbledon finalist.

Super D Boon wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Murray's Wimbledon I feel. Murray has given him a mauling on the hard stuff.

If the roof closes over it will be bye bye Ferrer

Not necessarily, they closed the roof in 2009 against Warinka and it slowed the courts right down and Murrau only just got through in 5.

I think this will be a tough test. 4 or 5 sets Murray the winner.

The same Murray who made Baghdatis look like a top 10 player a round ago?

Very unlikely mate.

Like the same Ferrer who struggled against an exhibition Roddick?



Don't be so stoopid!

Hardly a struggle against a former three time finalist who recently won Eastbourne!! . I thought Ferrer looked pretty good.

Josiah does have a point in that Murray can make relatively ordinary players look better than they are. He just let's them dictate too much. However, I think Murray will beat Ferrer but it will be tough.

So Baghdatis not being coached by Murray's former coach had nothing to with Baghdatis 'knowing' a few things.

killer938 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Murray's Wimbledon I feel. Murray has given him a mauling on the hard stuff.

If the roof closes over it will be bye bye Ferrer

Not necessarily, they closed the roof in 2009 against Warinka and it slowed the courts right down and Murrau only just got through in 5.

I think this will be a tough test. 4 or 5 sets Murray the winner.

The same Murray who made Baghdatis look like a top 10 player a round ago?

Very unlikely mate.

Like the same Ferrer who struggled against an exhibition Roddick?



Don't be so stoopid!

The same dropping down the rankings Roddick who in 2009 destroyed Murray in his "easy" semi final?

Really, you are using a match 3 years ago as you argument?

Murray also beat Roddick in straight sets in 2006, what is your point?

Murray had a low ranking back then there was no pressure.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Murray's Wimbledon I feel. Murray has given him a mauling on the hard stuff.

If the roof closes over it will be bye bye Ferrer

Not necessarily, they closed the roof in 2009 against Warinka and it slowed the courts right down and Murrau only just got through in 5.

I think this will be a tough test. 4 or 5 sets Murray the winner.

The same Murray who made Baghdatis look like a top 10 player a round ago?

Very unlikely mate.

Like the same Ferrer who struggled against an exhibition Roddick?



Don't be so stoopid!

The same dropping down the rankings Roddick who in 2009 destroyed Murray in his "easy" semi final?

So 2009 is relevent to 2012 because?????

Baghdatis hasn't achieved anything in tennis and Murray made him look like a contender.

Roddick has a slam and 3 times Wimbledon finalist.

Baghdatis is a former Slam finalist. Coached by Murray's former coach.

Not your standard mug.

Had you said Karlovic, you might have had a point.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Murray's Wimbledon I feel. Murray has given him a mauling on the hard stuff.

If the roof closes over it will be bye bye Ferrer

Not necessarily, they closed the roof in 2009 against Warinka and it slowed the courts right down and Murrau only just got through in 5.

I think this will be a tough test. 4 or 5 sets Murray the winner.

The same Murray who made Baghdatis look like a top 10 player a round ago?

Very unlikely mate.

Like the same Ferrer who struggled against an exhibition Roddick?



Don't be so stoopid!

Hardly a struggle against a former three time finalist who recently won Eastbourne!! . I thought Ferrer looked pretty good.

Josiah does have a point in that Murray can make relatively ordinary players look better than they are. He just let's them dictate too much. However, I think Murray will beat Ferrer but it will be tough.

So Baghdatis not being coached by Murray's former coach had nothing to with Baghdatis 'knowing' a few things.

The same baghdatis who did this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7kS68T6ptA

What a mental giant.

This article cracked me up.

Josiah, perhaps with my weekly tennis report articles, you can do your own comedy section

BTW to answer your question whoever is number 4 is number 4. At the moment it is Murray, this might change, who knows?

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

killer938 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Murray's Wimbledon I feel. Murray has given him a mauling on the hard stuff.

If the roof closes over it will be bye bye Ferrer

Not necessarily, they closed the roof in 2009 against Warinka and it slowed the courts right down and Murrau only just got through in 5.

I think this will be a tough test. 4 or 5 sets Murray the winner.

The same Murray who made Baghdatis look like a top 10 player a round ago?

Very unlikely mate.

Like the same Ferrer who struggled against an exhibition Roddick?



Don't be so stoopid!

The same dropping down the rankings Roddick who in 2009 destroyed Murray in his "easy" semi final?

Really, you are using a match 3 years ago as you argument?

Murray also beat Roddick in straight sets in 2006, what is your point?

Murray had a low ranking back then there was no pressure.

Watch out for the hole below

It Must Be Love wrote:
BTW to answer your question whoever is number 4 is number 4. At the moment it is Murray, this might change, who knows?

You sound like Andrew Castle.

Mr Stating the Obvious.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:
BTW to answer your question whoever is number 4 is number 4. At the moment it is Murray, this might change, who knows?

You sound like Andrew Castle.

Mr Stating the Obvious.

And you sound like Simon Reed

Josiah, young man

I keep telling you; when digging a hole for yourself, stop digging.

Incidentally, as Fererr leads in the O2 race - then he has been playing the better Tennis, so far this year

banbrotam wrote:Josiah, young man

I keep telling you; when digging a hole for yourself, stop digging. There are far too many people on these boards who are far more wise than you and have more facts than you

Incidentally, as Fererr leads in the O2 race - then he has been playing the better Tennis, so far this year

To be honest you would expect that after the clay court season but before the hard court season. Ferrer is the better clay court player, I don't think there is any doubt about that

banbrotam wrote:Josiah, young man

I keep telling you; when digging a hole for yourself, stop digging. There are far too many people on these boards who are far more wise than you and have more facts than you

Being older than me does not make anyone wiser than me.

If this was the case then you are saying Wayne Odesnik (drugs ban) and all the match fixers are wiser than me.

Are you mad?

Careful folks!

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=MC10&oId=F401

Never played on grass. This will be the first. Murray has his work cut out to beat Ferrer, who just won Den Bosch. He looked very good against DelPo.

Each match is different.

JuliusHMarx wrote:Careful folks!

Down in front

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

banbrotam wrote:Josiah, young man

I keep telling you; when digging a hole for yourself, stop digging. There are far too many people on these boards who are far more wise than you and have more facts than you

Being older than me does not make anyone wiser than me.

If this was the case then you are saying Wayne Odesnik (drugs ban) and all the match fixers are wiser than me.

Are you mad?

Can you stick to the context of your own article, please? Two Moderators on the same thread.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:Careful folks!

Down in front

I might just wear a big hat and sit right in front of you!

JuliusHMarx wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:Careful folks!

Down in front

I might just wear a big hat and sit right in front of you!

I will unleash Kylie and Jason if you do!!

Ferrer will be no.4 if he wins the Wimbledon

To win the title Ferrer have to do the following

Beat Murray in QF [chances 4/10]

Beat Tsonga/Kols in Semi's [most likely Tsonga] [chances 6-10]

Beat Djoko/Fed in the finals [Most likely DJoko] [chances 4-10]

There will be no disgrace Murray losing to Ferrer, given his paucity of form coming in

But it would be a disappointment

banbrotam wrote:There will be no disgrace Murray losing to Ferrer, given his paucity of form coming in

But it would be a disappointment

Perhaps disgrace is an unnecessarily judgmental word, but if Murray loses to Ferrer at a Wimbledon QF he is in no way shape or form (a) the player he wants to be (b) the player his early career promised (c) the player a pretty enthusiastic home crowd expects him to be (d) the player his record away from clay at slams and at Masters 1,000 events suggests he is (e) the player Lendl signed up to work with.

Unlike you I'd be even more concerned if he loses because the paucity of his form - this is the Big One and he is lined up vs. a clay-courter who he has beaten 5-1 away from clay, who has never won a Masters 1,000 or been beyond a Slam SF, and who is 30. This slam draw has opened up for Murray like no other for goodness knows how long. A serious aspirant slam winner should find the form he needs to take the opportunity this draw has afforded him to get to the final without having to play anyone in the top 3.

If he loses to anyone at this slam other than Djokovic it would be a very depressing outcome.

barrystar wrote:

banbrotam wrote:There will be no disgrace Murray losing to Ferrer, given his paucity of form coming in

But it would be a disappointment

Perhaps disgrace is an unnecessarily judgmental word, but if Murray loses to Ferrer at a Wimbledon QF he is in no way shape or form (a) the player he wants to be (b) the player his early career promised (c) the player a pretty enthusiastic home crowd expects him to be (d) the player his record away from clay at slams and at Masters 1,000 events suggests he is (e) the player Lendl signed up to work with.

Unlike you if be even more concerned if he loses because the paucity of his form - this is the Big One and he is lined up vs. a clay-courter who he has beaten 5-1 away from clay, who has never won a Masters 1,000 or been beyond a Slam SF, and who is 30. This slam draw has opened up for him like no other for goodness knows how long. A serious aspirant slam winner should find the form he needs to take the opportunity this draw has afforded him to get to the final without having to play anyone in the top 3.

Damn you barrystar, I was nice and relaxed until you came out with that brilliant logic I actually think more importantly than us, Andy thinks he can win and has done so ever since the first ball of this event - not always the case with him. I actually expect him to get to the final and if it's Fed he wins if it's Nole depends on which plays the best.

I'd not write Tsonga off in the semi final too lightly - I know he is the epitome of a 'hot and cold' player, and that he'll need to produce his 'hot' game to beat even an 8/10 Murray performance on grass. However, that's exactly what he did to Federer last year - I still don't know how it wasn't straight sets to Tsonga.

Murray does though have a 5:1 h2h record over Tsonga

banbrotam wrote:

barrystar wrote:

banbrotam wrote:There will be no disgrace Murray losing to Ferrer, given his paucity of form coming in

But it would be a disappointment

Perhaps disgrace is an unnecessarily judgmental word, but if Murray loses to Ferrer at a Wimbledon QF he is in no way shape or form (a) the player he wants to be (b) the player his early career promised (c) the player a pretty enthusiastic home crowd expects him to be (d) the player his record away from clay at slams and at Masters 1,000 events suggests he is (e) the player Lendl signed up to work with.

Unlike you if be even more concerned if he loses because the paucity of his form - this is the Big One and he is lined up vs. a clay-courter who he has beaten 5-1 away from clay, who has never won a Masters 1,000 or been beyond a Slam SF, and who is 30. This slam draw has opened up for him like no other for goodness knows how long. A serious aspirant slam winner should find the form he needs to take the opportunity this draw has afforded him to get to the final without having to play anyone in the top 3.

Damn you barrystar, I was nice and relaxed until you came out with that brilliant logic I actually think more importantly than us, Andy thinks he can win and has done so ever since the first ball of this event - not always the case with him. I actually expect him to get to the final and if it's Fed he wins if it's Nole depends on which plays the best.

I've hardly seen him, except for when Baghdatis was playing his best vs. Murray, but I agree with you.

His win against Baghdatis against the clock was redolent of a will somehow to take the match by the scruff and find a way to win. He was under time pressure to finish vs. Cilic again - I'm sure winning two matches in a row under that sort of pressure was very good for him. He just could not take the risk of allowing either match to take its course, and he didn't.

Also - look at these great serving stats for his first four matches, unusually for him the opponent was getting no let-up on the 2nd serve.

% 1st serve pts won 83 85 69 72
% 2nd Serve points won 75 67 65 71

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Murray's Wimbledon I feel. Murray has given him a mauling on the hard stuff.

If the roof closes over it will be bye bye Ferrer

Not necessarily, they closed the roof in 2009 against Warinka and it slowed the courts right down and Murrau only just got through in 5.

I think this will be a tough test. 4 or 5 sets Murray the winner.

The same Murray who made Baghdatis look like a top 10 player a round ago?

Very unlikely mate.

Like the same Ferrer who struggled against an exhibition Roddick?



Don't be so stoopid!

The same dropping down the rankings Roddick who in 2009 destroyed Murray in his "easy" semi final?

So 2009 is relevent to 2012 because?????

Baghdatis hasn't achieved anything in tennis and Murray made him look like a contender.

Roddick has a slam and 3 times Wimbledon finalist.

Baghdatis is a former Slam finalist. Coached by Murray's former coach.

Not your standard mug.

Had you said Karlovic, you might have had a point.

Wow! This is cool! All these quotations being referenced is giving it a nice mozaic like look!

Anyway, Baghdatis hasn't been firing on all cylinders recently, so former Murray coach or not I still think Murray made him look good, he was like 40 odd in the world and going nowehere! He had no serve to speak of, less powerful groundstrokes than Murray yet he makes Murray do all the scampering.

I think I'm the only one who's balanced in this argument. To dismiss Ferrer would be foolhardy considering his thrashing of Del Po and good match against Roddick. Likewise, Murray played better against Cilic so I think it could be a 50:50 match.

Nah your not being balanced. I just don't think anyone buys into your view.

To dismiss Maclaghan as an influential factor in the Baghdatis match is 'Foolhardy'

I'm not dismissing Ferrer, merely saying that Murray has to find a way to beat him if he's the player he so clearly expects to be.

dummy_half wrote:
Murray does though have a 5:1 h2h record over Tsonga

Yes that should mean he'll get safely through to the final, afterall, Henman had a 4:0 record against Ivanisevic before their semi-final in 2001 and look what happened there...................wait a minute!

Super D Boon wrote:

dummy_half wrote:
Murray does though have a 5:1 h2h record over Tsonga

Yes that should mean he'll get safely through to the final, afterall, Henman had a 4:0 record against Ivanisevic before their semi-final in 2001 and look what happened there...................wait a minute!

Again not relevent.

We are talking Murray/Tsonga, not Henman/Ivanisevic.

legendkillarV2 wrote:Nah your not being balanced. I just don't think anyone buys into your view.

To dismiss Maclaghan as an influential factor in the Baghdatis match is 'Foolhardy'

Murray showed grit and determination and a killer instinct............against the world number 47 or whatever he was! I'm sure Miles could give the world number 247 a lot of info on Murray but you wouldn't expect it to make THAT much of a difference.

Murray has a tough match on his hands and I think he is going out.... Defo in SF if not QF.

Super D Boon wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Nah your not being balanced. I just don't think anyone buys into your view.

To dismiss Maclaghan as an influential factor in the Baghdatis match is 'Foolhardy'

Murray showed grit and determination and a killer instinct............against the world number 47 or whatever he was! I'm sure Miles could give the world number 247 a lot of info on Murray but you wouldn't expect it to make THAT much of a difference.

Your talking execution and for a start a player ranked 247 wouldn't be in a match with a player ranked number 4.

It's like saying someone who trained a heavyweight and then trainer a lightweight to fight him wouldn't give an advantage.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

dummy_half wrote:
Murray does though have a 5:1 h2h record over Tsonga

Yes that should mean he'll get safely through to the final, afterall, Henman had a 4:0 record against Ivanisevic before their semi-final in 2001 and look what happened there...................wait a minute!

Again not relevent.

We are talking Murray/Tsonga, not Henman/Ivanisevic.

It's wholly relevent. Henman never proved he could handle the big occassion and win when he was expected to. Murray is YET to prove it. He's usually lost when he was expected to, now for Murray, nothing but the final will do.