A referee as a TV technical analyst?

It has been tried before. Clive Norling on the Beeb in the early nineties. Unfortunately Norling was so up himself, he was rapidly dropped.

However, I contend that an independently-minded top ex-ref (well-versed in both hemispheres rugby) could be contracted to comment on both the laws and refs' interpretations. It could be highly educational.

The once-reviled Brian Moore took up the cudgel in the face of criticism and went out and got himself qualified as a ref. Since then his general respect has soared.

Equally some near-universally despised players can metamorphose into great analysts e.g. Austin Healey.

So who is the ref you'd want to analyse the ref?

Tony Spreadbury.
Never met him, but from what I have seen on tv, Spreaders is smart and has a great manner with the players. Seems the type which would easily translate to tv. And with a good sense of humour, might well be an easy listen. Don't recall when he retired as a referee, but I am sure he still knows which end is up.

That's a great start Doc.
I'd expected the thread to be swamped with Walsh, etc.

My own personal opinion is that the idea would not work well. However assuming it would be successful I think that John Lacey from Ireland would be a good one to have. He is well spoken and has not just a referee insight but also a players one (played upto Heineken Cup level and also International 7s) and a coaches (Munster youth developement officer).

Spreadbury is a great shout. Although he is charasmatic I dont think Nigel Owens would be that good.

I actually think that Wayne Barnes would be really really good at it and the best current option.

I think the main pprobelm still lies within the laws, any amount of refereeing isn't going to change that.

The IRB needs to once and for all sort out the complexity of the laws and the ambiguity that goes with it.

Otherwise my dear friend Bruce will always be on a hiding to nothing.

biltongbek wrote:I think the main pprobelm still lies within the laws, any amount of refereeing isn't going to change that.

Hence my feeling that it wouldnt work out.

Lacey's pretty good, also heard Alan Lewis a few times on radio and he seems pretty good too

They do something like it in America in the NFL, FOX have a guy who offers opinions on controversial incidents, I take it that's what you want? I don't know if it would work for rugby, just taking the Ireland v NZ 2nd test, that scrum led to divided opinion some were saying totally correct others not. The laws would need to be looked at before this would work.

Any time I have seen this tried with genuine ex-referess (who did it to a top level) they end up so bland and supportive of the ref's decisions.

What would be a start would be if the pundits stop telling us what the decision was for - when we can hear the ref on ref-mic saying something different.

I guess the problem is if it is a top ref, or an ex top ref, then they will either be very careful not to be slagging of whoever the ref is, and they will be saying things like 'judgement call', or 'technically' etc. Or they will be so much of an I am right/You are wrong, up themselves, tool that nobody will want to see them on the screen or hear what they have to harp on about.

LondonTiger wrote:What would be a start would be if the pundits stop telling us what the decision was for - when we can hear the ref on ref-mic saying something different.

+1

Its not about the ref, they are an inconvenient necessity. its bad enough having has beens like Butler and Barnes do we really need ex refs explaining away decisions when everyone knows refs individual interpretations are as different as us pundits. Giving one a forum on tv is just another move towards the cult of the referee and the less of that the better. I think they should be ushered into the stadia in chains and escorted of soon after the final whistle.

Mowgli,

I would say that rugby has always had a "cult of the referee" so to speak.

Referee is sole judge of law. And dissent after a penalty is marched back 10m. Only captain speaks to referee. If another player speaks to referee its a penalty. Cursing / shouting at referee is a red card.

Its a far cry from soccer. If there is any move in modern rugby it seems to be away from this traditional values associated with the referee.

In IPl they give players on the field mics so they can talk direct to commentary team and give a live commentary.
Since rugby refs at the top level are already mic'ed up surely we could just get them to explain themselves live and in person after every call. Perhaps even add in a phone vote on whether we support the decision or not and feed that back.
Lets make the whole thing more interactive and in keeping with the modern world.

At the start of a tournament we could put all the refs in a house. Then vote to choose who gets a game and also vote some out each week. Then all the welsh fans could gather outside and boo them when they come out. It would be quite harrowing for the refs but they could get in Heat magazine.

Seems to me that most posters have missed my point.

A decent ref analyst would have to cast aside his sycophantic clothes and be harsh on his ex-colleagues. Just like Austin and Kay have not been short in criticisms of their Tigers' ex-team-mates.

Problem with that Portnoy is that pro refs aren't going to do that. They're still involved one way or another, so won't want to cause too much controversy by criticizing current refs. If you get older guys they won't be up to pace on the current laws as many ex players aren't

The idea of celebrity referees is pretty bad too. Theres always been a resistance and moral stance against even former refs perusing media careers
Can you imagine if Nigel Owens carried on like Gavin Henson?

I'd be keen on hearing Jackson. He's played in both hemispheres and refereed both (I think). I think with many of these things. You don't want to hear about the referee, but how refs manage the game and their perspective on what's important and why (e.g. you can't see or manage everything in a ruck in real time). If we understand refs, we might give them more leeway (I'm certainly struggling with some Kiwi video refs recent interpretations).