England Rugby's strategic plan was/is too overambitious

First topic message reminder :

I was reading an interesting blog from Johnny Beattie, who questioned Scotland rugby's strategic plan. The strategic plan left Beattie quite jaded and he found comfort in realising that over-ambition is not just a 'Scottish disease'.

An interesting blog, but the thing that got me jaded was the over-ambition polluting out from the England camp. The strategic plan from 2008 was to win the Six Nations four times (including two Grand Slams) and to win the RWC in 2011 and 2015.

The English rugby strategic plan 2008 to 2015 has as one of its targets "to win the World Cup in 2011 and 2015, and to win the Six Nations four times including two Grand Slams".

I put it to you, m'Lud, that they have already failed to make their rather ambitious targets. England were beaten by France in the quarter-final in 2011, and to think, they were supposed to win that tournament. Maybe nobody had told the opposition!

The problem is that as you sit in your room and write down your sporting targets and try to imagine your route to world domination, every other country in the world is trying to get better as well.

England won the 2011 Six nations on points difference, finished second in 2012 and did not make it past the 2011 RWC quarter final. I agree with Beattie. England should re-think their strategic plan. Morg's realistic strategic plan for England for between now and 2015:

1. Win at least one other Six Nations
2. Beat South Africa at home before the 2015 RWC
3. Get out of the group stages at the 2015 RWC
4. Get an English team into the Heinken Cup final before 2015

What would be your strategic plan be for England, or your own team for between now and 2015?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/johnbeattie/2012/06/are_scotland_smart_to_spell_ou.html

HERSH wrote:Now I see why some countries are happy to be plucky losers and never win series in the SH, it's just ingrained into their thinking and way of life.

I'm glad England are aiming high and are over ambitious, as a paying customer I wouldn't expect anything less from my Countries professional players.

Thank God teams like England and France carry the NH flag against the SH Giants.

I know HERSH, England the plucky winners with that 14-all draw against South Africa. It's clear how ambitious they are now if their aims are to draw games and pretend they won. Must be the implication of seeing the original strategic plan come crashing down around them.

Morgannwg wrote:

HERSH wrote:Now I see why some countries are happy to be plucky losers and never win series in the SH, it's just ingrained into their thinking and way of life.

I'm glad England are aiming high and are over ambitious, as a paying customer I wouldn't expect anything less from my Countries professional players.

Thank God teams like England and France carry the NH flag against the SH Giants.

I know HERSH, England the plucky winners with that 14-all draw against South Africa. It's clear how ambitious they are now if their aims are to draw games and pretend they won. Must be the implication of seeing the original strategic plan come crashing down around them.

I would have thought you would celebrate your 3000th post with somethnig little more positive, eh morgannw?

That was positive. I was bringing some perspective to someone who comes across as a little delsional . Only trying to help. Going back over my thread I now think the targets I set England are also over ambitious, I might have a re-think. Am I a writer now??

Not sure how it works, but it looks cool. anyhow, well done on getting to 3000 posts.

Aww my badge has gone now . I know, 3000 posts before being permanently banned. I didn't think I would make it. BTW; Bil, there is a serial complainer stalking my articles and posts again. Now I'm not sure what I have done to upset this person as all my comments are valid/on topic, but can you have a word? I have my suspicions, but I'll leave with you, the MOD. Thanks.

Just PM me with the details please morg.

biltongbek wrote:Goals for springboks, beat the All Blacks, beat the All Blacks, Beat the All Blacks, you do that everything else comes naturally.

In seriousness, win 75% of our matches, the rest will fall in place.

You can actually have the 75% ratio without beating the ABs mate I wouldn't mind that happening if we get the same %. Dibs on the WC final though

We get 75% wins, we'll see you there.

We'll leave Bryce at home if you do the same for Suzie. That way we should both get there

Need to find someone to take out Barnes now...

We'll get Suzie to sort Barnes out, hows that?

Suzie has Wayne and Bryce over for dinner (possibly dessert too ) but unwittingly eats the dodgy stuff too.

Might not result in the world's cleanest bedsheets LOL

Aim high, score high. What else ?

Faa019 the All Blacks won in SA in every year 1999 till 2010,they failed to get a win there,In 1998,2000,2004,2009,2011.Since it is a notoriously difficult to win in SA .In my opinion losing his home game in the 2007 in the 3Ns prompted Jake White to field stiffs for the away game.setting the trend for abandoning the 3Ns in RWC year.

This thread zzzzzzzzzzzzzz......

gowales wrote:This thread zzzzzzzzzzzzzz......

Well 64 replies say otherwise .

Check and mate! (as usual)

As with another recent thread on here, what started as a wum thread generated some interesting debate. And at least this one hasn't degenerated into a ****-measuring contest

I know KRD. gowales has got some nerve, I would actually pay to see him create a thread that sparks some interesting debate. BTW this was never a WUM thread!

zzzzzz.......

Long day?

No, if you aim low then you'll only ever acheive mediocrity. If you aim high you might fail but at least you've got a shot at being a winner. I have never entered an exam without the intention of getting top marks or a match without the intention of winning. Frequently I have not acheived that, but that doesn't mean my ambitions were too high rather that my ability to fulfil them is too low. It is better to improve your ability than to lower your expectations

Such talk reminds me of my single days...

Only a Welshman could read a blog relating to Scotland and turn it into a pop at England...

But anyway - yes aiming to win beats the alternative.

Triangulation wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:England: Win all future games up to and including RWC 2015 final

+1

+1

anything less is a fecking gutless cop out

+99

When England penned out this strategic plan, they had not won a 6 Nations since 2003. Why aim so ridiculously high? One step at a time. England should try and achieve Morg's strategic plan now and then aim higher for the following years leading up to 2019.

1. Win at least one other Six Nations
2. Beat South Africa at home before the 2015 RWC
3. Get out of the group stages at the 2015 RWC
4. Get an English team into the Heinken Cup final before 2015

not sure what the heineken cup has to do with it mogs,

to be fair the only plan wales needs (which could actually be abit to high for you~) is to get a draw v an SH opponent

mystiroakey wrote:not sure what the heineken cup has to do with it mogs,

to be fair the only plan wales needs (which could actually be abit to high for you~) is to get a draw v an SH opponent

I believe England should distance themselves from the clubs, before they take over by means of dictating how Rugby is run. However, Englands young guys just coming through need to come through in a winning environment if they are to achieve Morg's strategic plan. A shot at the Heineken Cup would do just that (it applies to every competing nation, not just England).

If you go back over the thread I penned in what I believe Wales should be aiming for . No draws. A win or nothing. No point in scraping an unfair draw and deluding ourselves into thinking it was a win. We'll leave that to Sky Sports.

so you think wales should only look to win but england shouoldnt?

england need to look to win every game

Tbh ,does anyone pay attention or follow these Stragegic plans that come from the RFU? They may feel like it looks good for them or its give someone with a important sounding title something to do. We've had so much promise or 'new dawns' in the past few years, these plans seem more ridiculous each time. I'm just happy England seem to have a decent set up now we can build upon to compete for the 6nations title and SH wins home and away.

Peace out..

No, I said one step at a time. Wales are taking it a step at a time, making the final 4 of the RWC and bagging more Grand Slams. I now 'expect' more from them in the following seasons. Follow Wales' example, as they could be a good role model for England.

but you think england should only look to get out of a RWC group -Are you off your head or on a wum?

That's the target I set. I expect England to exceed it. Anything below that will be an epic fail. What do you not understand? I made it quite clear.

Referring to yourself in the third person is the behaviour of a nutcase.

Morgs i clearly dont understand dude- why would anyone set a target below there ability? especially in a home cup

Morgannwg wrote: Follow Wales' example, as they could be a good role model for England.

True, they pick more Englishmen than England do for a start

sugarNspikes wrote:Referring to yourself in the third person is the behaviour of a nutcase.

Oh dear me that really hurt my feelings. I might have to run crying to Biltong and KRD now like you do about all my posts.

mystiroakey wrote:Morgs i clearly dont understand dude- why would anyone set a target below there ability? especially in a home cup

Well for a start, you have only won one Six Nations competition since 2003. And you don't win all your home games. So I set a more realistic target, one I believe to be on your teams ability.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Morgannwg wrote: Follow Wales' example, as they could be a good role model for England.

True, they pick more Englishmen than England do for a start

Do they, who?

you think only getting out of a group as a top seed is on englands ability at home! lol

mystiroakey wrote:you think only getting out of a group as a top seed is on englands ability at home! lol

You aren't gauranteed to be a top seed though, as the draw takes place after this set of Autumn Internationals, correct? Again why are you referring to 'home' as if it gives you some massive advantage? At the moment you don't win all your home games. If England start winning more home games they are definitely on the route to achieving Morg's strategic targets. Happy days.

nothing to do with being garanteed it- we have the postion at the moment. use facts to base stuff on pal.

your clearly on a wum

sorry should i have said morgs is clearly on a wum?

Well that is my name, so say it if you want...

Your claim of being the top seeds in the 2015 RWC is not gauranteed unless you keep the fourth position in the IRB rankings after the Autumn Internationals (where anything could happen). So it has everything to do with it! I've backed up my claims for you, post something relevant instead of bickering.

basing it on the realities of the here and now, its the only thing relevant, the rest is ifs and buts

none of your claims are backed up morgs- its kind off ludicrous. even if what you suggest is true- that england will acheive by getting out of a group stage in a wc- something they have never ever falied to do, its a loser mentality, and should never be a target for a team like england

You could find yourself not getting out of the next world cup group stage though, depends if you're a 2nd seed (which we will know for definite after the autumn like I said) . If England remain a top seed I may change Morg's strategic targets, giving you a quarter final ultimatum. You aren't even a dominant force in NH rugby anyway so I don't see why you think your team should be set on world domination. One step at a time, little steps before the big steps, etc..

A good realistic target will be to win 2 6 nations
rugby world cup semi(if we lose to the winner) or final performance
heineken cup is irrelevant.
to beat all teams home and away from now untill the world cup bar NZ

mystiroakey wrote:A good realistic target will be to win 2 6 nations
rugby world cup semi(if we lose to the winner) or final performance
heineken cup is irrelevant.
to beat all teams home and away from now untill the world cup bar NZ

That's a nice strategic plan. I have already said why I believe the Heineken Cup is important. Does the fourth target include beating NZ at home or have you ruled out a W altogether?

ruled them out they are on another level. give em a good game though. No other team is unbeatable for england as proved in all the last games v those teams.
England have drawn(sa) or won (france,ireland,scotland,argentina,aus,italy) against everyone of them bar NZ and Wales last game they played

wales have beaten them all bar all the sh teams- so its not as good from my pov and why you need to scale back your expectations for the welsh team

Is drawing a game equal to winning or losing?

maest its neither- its a draw