I think he might have cheated

My playing partner had a bit of a mare on the 13th on Saturday's medal. Reasonable tee shot, which just missed the fairway, but ended up in an area of churned up turf and mud (caused by a careless gatekeeper going over a rut with his tractor and rough cutter by the looks of things). Unsure what ruling would be - relief or not - he decided to play it as it lay. A duff shot and a reasonable shot later he was greenside. Putt lagged a couple of feet short. Meanwhile I had just played my best approach shot for a number of holes and was eyeing up a tasty ten foot birdie putt. He decided he was going to finish off.. and missed. He then preceded to do that thing that you sometimes see beginners do - sort of bash the ball across the face of the hole a couple of times by almost ( or perhaps actually) scooping it toward the hole, with th front of the putter , then the back without it dropping. I am 90% sure he then picked up the ball, i.e causing an NR as it hadn't dropped, though i wasn't paying full attention . I didn't say anything, and marked a dash on the scorecard when heading back to the next hole. After we had completed the 14th he asked me what score i'd given him on the previous hole. I said hat i'd thought he'd picked up so had scratched the hole on his card. He then said that he'd scored an 8. I said - ok. He then said he had holed a Putt and completed it. Not 100% sure so i just remarked the card as an 8. We then completed our round, and on the 18th green he informed me he had miss counted, and actually his score on 13th should have been a 7... Turned out he finished level handicap and tied 2nd in his division - so will get some cash for the achievement. Still not sure if i believe him, but as i wasn't 100% i didn't feel comfortable reporting it. However i'm thinking about informally mentioning it to the secretary just in case he has previous, or might get pulled up in the future. Guess then other 'suspicions' might be useful as evidence. Of course, its just a club medal, so mother really a big deal. However, i'm uncomfortable with the potential level of 'intent' he showed. If he did cheat, i guess he's only fooling himself.

But what should i do - any advice, or should i just let it go and pay more attention next time?!

If I were to offer advice I'd say have a word with the Secretary or Comp committee. Seems overly dubious how he played the hole, then recalled a lower number than he originally thought up only to low and behold hit his buffer.

I don't think its a case of you being more vigiliant, you shouldn't have to eyeball every single thing someone does to the degree of a parent to a new born baby.

Also its not just himself he's cheating, he's taken money nased on his 2nd place finish so he's cheating the whole field in his category. Just my opinion but I don't have time for anyform of cheating in any sports.

I have had a similar situation, I counted my playing partners score on one hole, as a seven, it was in a medal comp, before I signed his card I told what he had scored less his handicap, he said I had got his score wrong, so we went through the card hole for hole, on the said hole he no it was a six not a seven.

I went through the hole with him, put some how he left out a shot, and was adamant it was a six, I then said I was no longer able to sign his card, handed it to him I then went in to the Pro shop, told the Pro, what had happened and left it with him.

I went into the clubhouse for a beer, and waited on my playing partner to appear, but he didn't, later on the Pro came in with my card and said that I had to sign my own card, this I did.

I see him from time to time at the club, but he has not mentioned it since.

You do need to be vigilant. You should know whether someone completed the hole, or whether they didn't. If you can't agree what score someone had, then don't sign the card. Every other player in the field is relying on you to get his score correct. Presumably, if you think he cheated, then someone has been denied a second place finish.

The only people who should be "having a word" with the secretary are other players not in your group who might have seen this, or perhaps saw something else on another hole that you didn't.

If I was the secretary, and you told me that you had suspicions about his score - yet you still signed the card - I'd be pretty upset. What do you expect him to do? You were there, you signed the card, yet you are telling him you think the other guy cheated.

I was not certain he had cheated. I thought he picked the ball up from the green rather than hole. It is possible he dropped it after picking it out of the hole and what i saw was him picking it up after that. I challenged him directly whether he had completed the hole and he responded. There were only two of us, we were the last group on the course, so no other witnesses for me to ask.

I understand and take your point on board though. It is not in my nature to be confrontational , i generally expect the best from people and perhaps this let me down in this circumstance.

I think without certainty you have to take him at his word (as you would expect your playing partners to take you at yours). Did you do a walkthrough of the hole with him? (first to tree, duff, greenside for 3, texas wedge to 2ft for 4 etc)? Even with a "silly" putting stroke a 4 putt from 2ft seems above and beyond, so 7 may well be right. Even if that is the case it's not fair on you for him to wait 30 - 40 minutes and 20ish shots each (holes 15-18) before raising it again (and for that shot to be the difference between his missing and matching h/cap).

You are responsible for verifying his score and so should perhaps have been more aware of what he had on the hole, but you had a good shot to revel in followed by a birdie opportunity to focus on. For whatever reason, I'm sure we've all had to rely on someone's counting of their own strokes on a hole before.

My view is chalk it up to experience, let it go and do whatever you can to prevent any future playing partners from putting you in that situation again.

roller

How did you become "writer" level. I signed up for journal writing but was never given that accolade?

and have you written anything for the golf section?

to the cheating:

Ban, i dont see what else you could have done and you did the right thing in taking the guys word for it, especially as you did not see what happened.

I would not go to anyone official as I suspect they will just say you should be aware of what your opponent is doing if you are marking the card. Which I don’t think is fair in this case as the guy was clearly fannying about, and you cant be expected to deal with people not willing to act in a normal manner.

I hope it provides with some comfort when I say you did not cheat in any way. If anything your playing partner’s behaviour caused an issue for you and potentially the whole field.

Hi Mac - If you could see my face there would be a stunned look upon it, for I know not what you mean I'm afraid. I wasn't even aware that an alternative status was available (or how to check the status of myself, let alone other users). Other than occasional posts and the one chain on Benalmadena thus far I have written nothing for the golf section per se.

I only recently signed up as a "normal" punter in the same way that I assumed all did. If I have been given a status that is unexpected it is perhaps one for the Admins? (If I need to get something like that looked at, what should I send and to whom?)

dude- annoying one really- id just let it go in fairness. but what did he score ? a 7 or an 8 if he had actually tapped in- I take it his handicap is still gonna be the same as what it would have been otherwise(not counting doubles etc!)

I think the one thing you can learn from this is to allways take note of what your opponent is doing and bring up any issues straight away rather than obviously going into a shell about it!

Id much rather deal with the person than sign a card and then grass him up- you are just as much in the wrong as he is at this moment in time!

Mac and everyone else- there was a problem and loads of us had writer 606v journal or something including myself for a moment!

George1507 wrote:You do need to be vigilant. You should know whether someone completed the hole, or whether they didn't. If you can't agree what score someone had, then don't sign the card. Every other player in the field is relying on you to get his score correct. Presumably, if you think he cheated, then someone has been denied a second place finish.

The only people who should be "having a word" with the secretary are other players not in your group who might have seen this, or perhaps saw something else on another hole that you didn't.

If I was the secretary, and you told me that you had suspicions about his score - yet you still signed the card - I'd be pretty upset. What do you expect him to do? You were there, you signed the card, yet you are telling him you think the other guy cheated.

That sounds like the Marco Dawson dilemma, signing the card then having a crisis of conscience and bringing up a potential infringement, and in doing so making things worse:

http://fanooz.com/news/view_news_detail.php?id=18234

Agree with the others who say any concerns needed to be brought up at the time, best thing now is just put it behind you and keep a close eye on the guy if you ever find yourself playing with him again.