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England v South Africa, The Oval, 1st Test Thread

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England v South Africa, The Oval, 1st Test Thread - Page 19 Empty England v South Africa, The Oval, 1st Test Thread

Post by Duty281 Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:40 pm

First topic message reminder :

Here we go then, England v South Africa at The Oval where the battle for Number 1 will commence. A win or draw in the series for England will see them retain that coveted spot whereas South Africa need a series win to take the crown. This will be a true battle of the World's two best Test teams. Here are the lineups:

1 Andrew Strauss (capt), 2 Alastair Cook, 3 Jonathan Trott, 4 Kevin Pietersen, 5 Ian Bell, 6 Ravi Bopara, 7 Matt Prior (wk), 8 Tim Bresnan, 9 Graeme Swann, 10 Stuart Broad, 11 James Anderson

England bat down to 10 with the formidable Cook opening (made 294 less than 12 months ago), KP (who walks into any team at the moment) and the best WK batsmen in the game, Matt Prior (averages over 40 and he bats at 7). Add the fact that their probable No.8 bats with an average over 40! England have probably the best all-round bowling attack in the game - 2 World-class quicks, a World-'class spinner and a very good all-rounder in Tim Bresnan who averages over 40 with the bat and under 30 with the ball. One weak link though, Ravi Bopara.

1 Graeme Smith (capt), 2 Alviro Petersen, 3 Hashim Amla, 4 Jacques Kallis, 5 AB de Villiers (wk), 6 Jacques Rudolph, 7 JP Duminy, 8 Vernon Philander, 9 Dale Steyn, 10 Morne Morkel, 11 Imran Tahir

7 specalist batsmen which includes the best no.3 in the World and the best all-rounder seen in this era. There's also Graeme Smith and De Villiers who both average a shade under 50. Then the best fast bowling attack in the World, Steyn (best bowler in the World), Morkel and Philander (average of 14.15 in 7 Tests). Weak links? Petersen isn't the best opener, Boucher the usual WK is injured and Tahir is far from the best spinner in the World.

Cricinfo Preview

My series prediction: 2-0 England.

Enjoy the game!


Last edited by Duty281 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:10 pm

come on just crush it- its the only chance we have and it will disrupte the field- if we can just get 4 or so flukey 4's we are in the money- if these two try and play cricket we are stuffed

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Post by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:12 pm

c'mon Swanny, quick fire 50 now, get a lead of 50 by 6 ish and wrap up the draw we all saw coming.

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Post by Fists of Fury Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:12 pm

Well that is the worry, Hibbz, it appears that summer is now here in earnest. Rain won't save us, it seems.

Swann, in his defence, is reputed to still be having some elbow troubles. He may not be 100%.

Can any of you seriously see us taking 20 saffer wickets whilst doing any better against their bowlers, though? I can't. We are too much of a one trick pony, and looked unacceptably clueless on days two three and four with the ball.

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Post by Fists of Fury Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:13 pm

Agreed martyr, best to just swing from the hip now.

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Post by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:14 pm

FOF offcourse we can take 20 saffa wickets- we have a great attack- just a bad few days at the office- we have lost one series in 3 years.. and even in that one the bolwers still knocked out pakistain very convincinly.. this is the first test in 20 plus that we havent done well enough with the ball. One trick poney lol to that

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Post by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:15 pm

never mind..

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Post by Duty281 Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:16 pm

Strauss, Bopara, Bresnan, Swann, Broad and Anderson have all had poor games. Cook, Trott and Prior have played well. KP and Bell were average. As I type, Swann's gone. South Africa's bowling has been very good.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:16 pm

well what a disgrace this has been. a vaunted and seemingly over-rated bowling attack gets nothign where sa turn it into a minfield. SA's genuinly great batting unit makes us look like kids whilst our batsmen fall over themselves to hand victory away. A joke of a performance.



well done SA and take a look at yourselves England. The warning signs have been there for a long time.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:17 pm

Duty281 wrote:Strauss, Bopara, Bresnan, Swann, Broad and Anderson have all had poor games. Cook, Trott and Prior have played well. KP and Bell were average. As I type, Swann's gone. South Africa's bowling has been very good.

KP I would put in the poor games bracket. Got in to 41, and got out. Look at what the Saffers did when they got in, they got big runs.
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Post by Hibbz Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:18 pm

What a vile looking creature Stain is. Decent bowler mind.

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Post by Duty281 Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:18 pm

We'll bounce back. Headingley will be bowler-friendly, which will give our bowlers confidence and we will take 20 wickets then. Our batsmen will be alright, average in the first game, we'll improve for the second game.

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Post by liverbnz Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:18 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:
Can any of you seriously see us taking 20 saffer wickets whilst doing any better against their bowlers, though? I can't. We are too much of a one trick pony, and looked unacceptably clueless on days two three and four with the ball.

To me, our batting is our weakest component and that has been crudley exposed. The bowling hasn't been great this Test, but some don't look 100% fit. When up against quality bowling attacks our top 6 have rarely performed. This has been papered over by the recent wins, but it's been there for all to see on the 2nd day (and on the first somewhat).

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Post by trebellbobaggins Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:19 pm

Duty281 wrote:Strauss, Bopara, Bresnan, Swann, Broad and Anderson have all had poor games. Cook, Trott and Prior have played well. KP and Bell were average. As I type, Swann's gone. South Africa's bowling has been very good.

many levels above the boys opposite. shame to have reality shoved up them like this.

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Post by VTR Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:20 pm

Awful performance. I don't think we've been convincing at all since beating India last summer. There's certainly been some dreadful performances since then of which this has been the worst. In fact this one of the most horrific beatings I've ever seen us take and I started following cricket at the start of the 90's!

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Post by Duty281 Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:21 pm

Just over 2 hours to bat, come on Jimmy and Bressy!

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Post by trebellbobaggins Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:23 pm

VTR wrote:Awful performance. I don't think we've been convincing at all since beating India last summer. There's certainly been some dreadful performances since then of which this has been the worst. In fact this one of the most horrific beatings I've ever seen us take and I started following cricket at the start of the 90's!



I agree. This is possible worse than anything i have ever seen. Those teams we meant to be bad. We've been assured this team was good e3ven after constant batting failures. Truth is they are not and it has come crashing down. Cannot see them getting close to SA in this series or for a long time to come. A good few years rebuilding needed.

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Post by alfie Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:24 pm

Swann was indeed a bit ineffective , Martyr...think he started off bowling OK , but with not much there for the quicks he was perhaps overbowled earlier in the innings than he need have been. Eventually he became a bit mechanical .

He was hardly alone though : I didn't see the whole innings (thank heaven!) but all I did see confirmed the tale of the statistics , ie that Anderson was the only bowler to emerge with any credit from this game.
Not saying they were rubbish, mind : just not at their absolute best , and on this pitch days three and four that standard was not going to cut it against Amla , Smith and Kallis.

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Post by Duty281 Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:24 pm

Jimmy slams one to the boundary!

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Post by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:24 pm

Kallis
Smith
Amla
ABD

That's real quality right there. Smith averages near 80 against England, Amla could become one of the greats for SA, Kallis is already and ABD is for me one of the top 10 batsmen in the world.

For me, England didn't make the most of the 1st innings and gifted SA the chance to score runs without much pressure during their 1st innings. We also bowled very poorly to them, especially to Smith. Not once did we plug the onside and bowl at his stumps, at least then we would have had protection and had a few strayed down leg side.

Swann has been poor, not taking a wicket on this surface is very surprising to say the least.

Poor shot selection from the batters have also caused the downfall, but never mind its all about bouncing back at Leeds and playing with the intensity that SA showed on the second day, and prove to them why we are ranked 1st in the world.

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Post by djkbrown2001 Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:26 pm

if the pitch is bowler friendly at headinley - England will not stand a chance agaisnt Steyn and co.

SA will stand a better chance because of their stronger batting line up.

The stats from this match says it all.

England much "vaunted" attack picked up 2 wkts! SA 19 and counting

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Post by Duty281 Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:27 pm

I think the turning point was when we were 267/3, we should have made 500 minimum. We didn't and were punished. South Africa have looked hungrier in this test but do I think they're the better team? No, we'll show them in the next test. It's like when England beat South Africa by an innings over there in 2009, were we better? No, and South Africa made up for it in the final test when they beat us by an innings.

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Post by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:27 pm

Also Finn for the second test. We need to take wickets, he's been in fine form and will be a real handful at Leeds. Tough luck on Bresnan but bowlers take wickets, batters score runs. Put more pressure on the batters at the top of the order to score big runs, I feel they sometimes we think the tail will always get us out of hole when its not always going to be the case.

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Post by Duty281 Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:32 pm

Still 38 overs to go. We haven't lost yet!

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Post by alfie Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:33 pm

Ah , too tired to combat all the negativity Smile

Just saying , SA have had a great match , England have had a shocker. It happens - SA are a very good team.

But they are not unbeatable : if they always played this well they would be indisputable number 1 already , wouldn't they ?

It won't be easy - we always knew that - but there is no doubt England can bounce back and win at Headingley .

Whether they will or not ...we'll just have to wait and see.

Today : congratulations to South Africa clap

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Post by mystiroakey Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:33 pm

we just need to get into the lead then i may believe

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Post by Duty281 Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:40 pm

Now 36 overs to go, Jimmy's defence is immaculate.

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Post by Pal Joey Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:40 pm

I just think England need to take a leaf out of SA's book if possible.

OK, it's been a truly sub-par performance at home but the same players were invincible over the last few years (save in the UAE... but everyone struggles there!) but for this match... they have not been able to maintain the application and intensity.

SA have simply applied themselves better in both batting & bowling. England will be better prepared for Leeds (hopefully for you guys) and they must put this one behind them and get back in the nets and concentrate on ironing out the minor batting deficiencies if possible and do what SA have been doing - that little extra oomph in the bowling line and accuracy. That's the difference.

They can do it but they have to accept the challenge and not do what Australia has done... chop & change the line up too much (injuries aside) and just think they can turn up and it will all fall into place. It's a game of 1%ers and fractions of inches, etc. It's a bloody cruel & unforgiving game too as we all know. The psychology of remaining on top is immense. Smile

Also, it's always so much harder when you are No.1. It's not easy to keep raising the bar and a good opposition (like SA) will be very, very motivated to go that extra bit... as they have done.

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Post by Duty281 Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:45 pm

Lead is now below 20.

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Post by alfie Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:45 pm

Good summary , Linebreaker

Game of inches , as you say , and in this match SA won the mental battle - after the first day, anyway.

Still looking forward to the next game.

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Post by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:46 pm

game on now!!! Tumbleweed

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Post by Duty281 Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:46 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:
VTR wrote:Awful performance. I don't think we've been convincing at all since beating India last summer. There's certainly been some dreadful performances since then of which this has been the worst. In fact this one of the most horrific beatings I've ever seen us take and I started following cricket at the start of the 90's!



I agree. This is possible worse than anything i have ever seen. Those teams we meant to be bad. We've been assured this team was good e3ven after constant batting failures. Truth is they are not and it has come crashing down. Cannot see them getting close to SA in this series or for a long time to come. A good few years rebuilding needed.

Getting bowled out for 51 by the Windies was far far worse than this.

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Post by Duty281 Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:47 pm

We've never lost with Bresnan in the team, we're not going to start now!

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Post by Pal Joey Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:48 pm

cheers Alfie. Nearly 1a.m here.... :where's-our-sleepy-icon?:

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Post by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:50 pm

Quality from Bresnan and Anderson (Not being sarcastic). Its not enough though but fp to both for really sticking in. Would be nice to make SA bat again, just not to lose by an innings if anything.

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Post by Hibbz Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:50 pm

Linebreaker wrote:I just think England need to take a leaf out of SA's book if possible.

OK, it's been a truly sub-par performance at home but the same players were invincible over the last few years (save in the UAE... but everyone struggles there!) but for this match... they have not been able to maintain the application and intensity.

SA have simply applied themselves better in both batting & bowling. England will be better prepared for Leeds (hopefully for you guys) and they must put this one behind them and get back in the nets and concentrate on ironing out the minor batting deficiencies if possible and do what SA have been doing - that little extra oomph in the bowling line and accuracy. That's the difference.

They can do it but they have to accept the challenge and not do what Australia has done... chop & change the line up too much (injuries aside) and just think they can turn up and it will all fall into place. It's a game of 1%ers and fractions of inches, etc. It's a bloody cruel & unforgiving game too as we all know. The psychology of remaining on top is immense. :)

Also, it's always so much harder when you are No.1. It's not easy to keep raising the bar and a good opposition (like SA) will be very, very motivated to go that extra bit... as they have done.

How dare you come on here with your well reasoned level-headed posts?

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Post by alfie Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:53 pm

True , Linebreaker ...I'd pack it in and go to bed , but it seems sort of ill mannered to leave before the last wicket falls Smile

Don't think it will be much longer ...

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Post by Duty281 Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:55 pm

Bresnan gets a boundary, lead down to 13!

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Post by Pal Joey Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:55 pm

@ Hibbz Laugh you know it makes sense!

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Post by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:55 pm

All too easy for Anderson and Bresnan, thank God we have got our quality batters in now, SA are in for an ordeal Very Happy

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Post by Hibbz Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:56 pm

Hibbz wrote:What a vile looking creature Stain is. Decent bowler mind.

Smith is a smug looking fat pig an' all.

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Post by Liam Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:57 pm

ahh never mind, well played SA, bring on Leeds

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Post by Duty281 Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:58 pm

Jimmy caught LBW. He's reviewed it...but he's surely out. Well done South Africa. clap Roll on Headingley!

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Post by alfie Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:59 pm

Haha ... Jimmy gets to use a referral for once Very Happy

Still out ...couldn't do much with that ball !

Well done SA ...goodnight all...

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Post by Pal Joey Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:00 pm

'Grats Bilt... Ale (he must be tweaking his motorbike or something) Whistle
nite Alfie... I'm hitting the sack too. Wink

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Post by trebellbobaggins Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:03 pm

Painful, brings back many memories.

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Post by VTR Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:03 pm

I'm not sure we'll come back. Its our batting you see and I can't quite fathom why but its not what it was. I think we were maybe a bit spoilt with a lot of batsmen peaking at once, and possibly this is the way down.

Specifically I worry about Strauss. He isn't young and bar the series against Windies (who are awful) has really struggled in the last couple of years. We're already carrying deadwood at number 6 so its the same 4 batsmen time and time again who have to perform.

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Post by Biltong Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:05 pm

Linebreaker wrote:'Grats Bilt... Ale (he must be tweaking his motorbike or something) Whistle
nite Alfie... I'm hitting the sack too. Wink
Thanks LB, here is your goodnight emoticon.

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Post by liverbnz Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:08 pm

Well done the saffers. Deserved winners.

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Post by Pal Joey Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:08 pm

Rolling Eyes It has been that bad for us these last few days, hasn't it?

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Post by Biltong Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:12 pm


condolences to england, I really expected that we struggle in the first test, I mentally prepared myself to be 1-0 down after this test and then having to fight hard for a drawn series.

This does put us in a very good position to have a go.

I am happy that Smith got into form during this match, he wasn't his old self prior to this, but it seems he needs to play himself in form in england, he just loves playing there.

Amla of course is just quietly building himself into a great batsman, and Kallis had an alrround good match, took two wickets in the first innings and of course got 180+.

Can't really say anything about the other batsmen as ...well they didn't bat.

Bolwers.

Steyn struggled by his standards in the first innings, but looked more accurate in the second, Philander needed to play a test match where he could be tested, he hasn't had one of these matches yet, and it is a good thing, test cricket isn't supposed to be easy.

Tahir started bowling better and he still needs more overs to really gain confidence in the test arena.

Really happy that Morkel got some wicket this test, he has been bowling well for some time without getting the results.

Overall promising, last concern for me now is 7 guys didn't get any time in the middle.

Strange to say that after 5 days of test cricket.
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