Top 4 H2H's In Slams So Far This Year

The big difficulty in winning a slam over the past few years has been that to do so has involved beating one or even two of the top four. This is no easy task even for holders of these top four positions. So far in 2012 the three slams have been shared between the top three players. What are the top four's H2H's in slams so far this year.

Federer

Federer v Djokovic 1 win (W), 1 loss (L)
Federer v Nadal 1 L
Federer v Murray 1 W

Against other members of the top 4 Federer has 2 W and 2 L

Djokovic

Djokovic v Federer 1 W, 1 L
Djokovic v Nadal 1 W 1 L
Djokovic v Murray 1 W

Against other members of the top 4 Djokovic has 3 W and 2 L

Nadal

Nadal v Federer 1 W
Nadal v Djokovic 1W 1 L
Nadal v Murray Didn't play

Against other members of the top 4 Nadal has 2 W and 1 L

Murray

Murray v Federer 1L
Murray v Djokovic 1L
Murray v Nadal Didn't play

Against other members of the top 4 Murray has 0 W and 2 L

If you just look at the H2H of the top three against other members of the top three

Federer has 1 W and 2 L
Djokovic has 2 W and 1 L
Nadal has 2 W and 1 L

The semi final against Djokovic at Wimbledon was Federer's only win against another member of the top three in a slam so far this year.

I'm confused: how can Federer have two slam losses to Djokovic this year? He didn't play him in the Australian Open this year, so he lost @ RG & won @ Wimbledon, 1W & 1L. Where do you come up with 2 losses (unless you're going back to the USO, which wasn't this year but last year)?

luciusman. Whoops you are correct. I have fixed it. I was going to use the last four slams then changed it to just the slams in 2012.

hawkeye wrote:luciusman. Whoops you are correct. I have fixed it. I was going to use the last four slams then changed it to just the slams in 2012.

Okay, cool.

It is interesting if we look @ the H2H for the top 4:

Djokovic: 3 Wins, 2 Losses

Nadal: 2 Wins, 1 Loss

Federer: 2 Wins, 2 Losses

Murray: 0 Wins, 2 Losses

I've ordered the above by the number of wins, so even though Nadal has a higher win percentage, he has less wins than Djokovic. Still, it's easy to see that Fed's 50/50 split is actually pretty good and explains why he has a slam when you compare it to Murray's record so far.

Just by way of comparison, at this point last year, it was (bold for all slams last year):

Djokovic: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (5 Wins, 1 Loss)

Nadal: 1 Win, 1 Loss (2 Wins, 2 Losses)

Federer: 1 Win, 2 Losses (1 Win, 3 Losses)

Murray: 0 Wins, 3 Losses (0 Wins, 4 Losses)

The general gist of what I gather from the above, is that if you're going to win a slam prior to the USO, you need to have an even (50%) win record against the other three. If it dips below that (like Federer & Murray in 2011) then you win no slams but if you keep it even (like Nadal in 2011), then even with less matches against the other 3 (prior to the USO), you win a slam. The only other thing I can really see is that Murray stands out from the rest in that his H2H against the rest is worse, so much so that he hasn't recorded a single win, although he has come close (this year's Aussie Open).

It doesn't help the case for Murray, that's for sure.

It doesn't matter, coz end of day the top 3 have a slam each and the rest of top 4 have to wait.

Murrays best chance as seen in the AO semi's will always be against Novak of the big 3. Novaks head wanders mid match and his forehand can drift as soon against Fed in the semis. Interesting how Murray has never met Nadal in a final and Djokovic didnt meet Fed in a final since 07.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Interesting how Murray has never met Nadal in a final and Djokovic didnt meet Fed in a final since 07.

Well thats food for thought for draw rigging conspiracy, coz time and again Murray was drawn to meet Nadal in semi's and hence he will have no chance to meet Nadal in finals.

Bring back the draw rigging conspiracy, where the hell Socal is hiding? The forum has gone dead with no debatable articles

The forums tend to get quieter between events...particularly post slams (except FO). Also, the tour feels a little 'odd' at the moment given recent events...Djokovic seems to have fallen off his '11 plateau, Nadal is hard to fathom right now and Federer is doing well.

Here's a random thought, some might say Fed's recent success is due in part due to Nadal and Djokovic having burnt each other out from IW'11 to FO'12 - they were nowhere to be seen post-USO really...and AO12 probably burnt them out again, then post-FO they both seemed oddly muted at Wimby, i.e. Fed has been the primary beneficiary of them knocking 7 bells out of each other.

Some may even go on to say Fed has done well in slams - infact won all 3 of them since 2009 - when Nadal hasn't been around for whatever reason, personal or bodily. But thats the luck of his draw.
Just saying to spark debate for IC!

And of course, there's Murray is Murray - always the bridesmaid, never the...

Djokovic beat Federer in the 2009 Basel Final and 2011 Dubai final

lydian - don't disagree with anything you say there.

Not least on your thoughts wrt Rafa and Novak seemingly burning themselves out again. But of course that all brings us back to the age-old topic of consistency and the ability to pace yourself as a player over the course of not just one season but your career as a whole.

I find it interesting to reflect that Rafa and Novak are still - with all their fine achievements - only ranked 7th and 12th respectively as regards total number of weeks spent at Number One. Now... they both have several (hopefully) years ahead in which they can grow those totals significantly, but you sometimes wonder just how much of a struggle it might prove to be : Being the hunter or the hunted ....... different players meet the challenge in different ways.

At the start of 2012 (well in March to be honest) I confidently predicted a strong season for Rafa. A year with a Slam + 2 Masters to date can never be considered poor, but with every injury spell comes the need to re-focus and re-energise, and I do think the USO must now be seen as a very important target for him. Rafa has often come back very impressively after absences, whether enforced or voluntary ; but it surely gets a little harder with the passing years.

As for Novak - well lydian I'm actually finding him almost as "hard to fathom" as you are Rafa ....

invisiblecoolers wrote:
Bring back the draw rigging conspiracy, where the hell Socal is hiding? The forum has gone dead with no debatable articles

I'm thinking IC I'm thinking. Controversial topics are on my mind
I agree after the Del Potro Murray debate and the LK and Reckonet quoting onslaught we haven't had much debate.

Agree Lags. Djokovic is a weird one...it kind of says his 11 form wasn't his norm. It was an extended purple patch. Let's see with OG and USO though. If not for that purple patch Nadal may have added another 50 weeks as #1 and pushed his consequetive run to 100 weeks or so.

Personally, I believe a lot of Nadal's problems since mid 09 have been mental not physical!

In particular I believe he'd rather blame his knees for issues on court than his own mother and father. But make no mistake those issues have affected him greatly and cost him concentration and ability to compete. He's said as much himself. The family 09 breakdown - 11 reunion - possible 12 breakdown again issues may have arguably cost him 2-3 slams (that would put he and Fed level on slam count - around 14 each), titles and weeks at #1. Just opinion and supposition...all hindsight of course.

lydian - a further point, and interested to hear your own thoughts on this ...

You mention Djokovic (and also Rafa - although we didn't get to see much of him in truth ...!!) seeming "oddly muted at Wimby"

But worth noting that Djokovic pretty much sailed effortlessly through to the SF for the loss of just one set (Stepanek) across all five rounds ..... until he then came up against a certain R. Federer, when he promptly lost three. So was it a case of Djoker being flat, muted, out of sorts, whatever - or was it more about the quality of Fed on the day not allowing him to get as comfortable as all the other opponents had done ....?

Yes lags Roger played very well in the semi, but it was what we expect from Roger, good serving, kept his game solid. Yes Djokovic kind of cruised through to the semis...but the important factor is without being mentally pushed. When it came time to raise himself for a close mental battle in the semi he was muted. Indeed the manner of his defeat was not like the previous 5-6 slams he had contested. I felt his mental tank, likewise for Nadal, was empty. Djokovic 11 or AO12 wouldnt have capitulated - or rather simply rolled over - like that. I don't mean to besmirch Fed's wins but I can't help feel he's been the benefactor of Djokovic and Nadal being somewhat mentally AWOL having perhaps ground each other mentally and physically for over 12 months. And in Nadal's case in conjunction with off-court issues too, it's common knowledge he wasn't getting on with Toni last year but we don't know how much of that was wrapped up into other family issues as stated. Again...all supposition - shoot me down, lol.

No, that's fine with me lydian. I know you well enough that you would never besmirch a Fed Slam victory, whether at SF stage or indeed Final itself (where by common consent he raised his game yet further, and just at the worst possible time for Andy....) You are way too balanced to go down that road ....

If Djoker can get back to 2011 form (or something close) then he's once more going to be very very difficult to knock over, as was clear for all to see last year.

And yes, Rafa is perhaps (??) struggling as much with mental/personal demons as anything physical. He is not the first elite level athlete to have to handle such pressures, and certainly won't be the last. Sport at the very top is incredibly demanding (breaking news there ....hold the front page for that pearl of wisdom ... )

lags...and I certainly waxed lyrical over Feds play in that final...especially those those memorable 2 points at 30-30 in the 2nd set.

I agree, let's see what Novak does from here on in. He may have been feeling the let down from not achieving the 4 in a row too.

Nadal is such a mental fortress on court, but off court he seems more vulnerable to what happens around him with family given they're so closely knit, and a large family at that too. He seems to find it very hard to shake off family issues when they arise and for me there have been too many connects for this to b simply brushed off as irrelevant. He'll have to find a way through this but I wonder how much the off court troubles since 2009 have harmed his legacy...particularly slam count.

It's all about the level these guys play as a % of their 'stressed maximum' that shows up in their constancy.

Nadal & Djokovic have these big let downs so frequently it makes you think their game is not natural to their body or mind. Hard to see them, therefore, winning at 30+.

Good points Lyd, but one thing I dont understand how come 1 match could burn out a player for an entire season? did u mean mentally more than physically?

AO 2012 is like 6 months old, i don't think so that physical effects are felt by Djoko now, I personally see he is mentally saturated being hunted by everybody and fails to cope up the pressure.

Nadal always struggled to cope up the pressure of being hunted, he never lasted 2 years as no.1 and always came back stronger as hunter when pushed to no.2.

Yes Fed is the prime beneitiary of these two's mental let off, but thats what champs do grab the opportunity when it comes ur way.

@IMBL , come on lets get some interesting controversial topics that would kick the forum back alive.

Some interesting thoughts regarding the mental fatigue of Rafa and particularly Djokovic. My feeling is that both play in a style that puts huge demands on both their physical and mental endurance, especially when up against other in the top 4 - Federer by comparison has an easier game plan, both on his body and mind, in that he gets cheaper points and is less worried about making a few errors because of this. Murray is somewhere in between in style, in part because he doesn't have the emotional coldness (on court) to maintain the level of focus that Djokovic and Nadal at their best have.

Also, Rafa has had a few struggles in early rounds at Wimbledon in the past, but has found a way of pulling through these. The faster playing conditions of the first week are often a bit of a struggle for him especially transitioning from clay. This time, he was just unlucky to find an opponent who was playing the match of his life on that day.

Djokovic I think in part has reverted to his real level this year, having been extraordinary for most of 2011 (although even then he faded at the end of the year) - a very fine player who will be in the running for all major tournaments, but not a certainty to win them. My impression was that his form at the AO this year was not brilliant, but that he still had enough self belief carrying over from 2011 to allow him to 'find a way to win' in both the sf and final. Subsequent tournaments have eroded his (internal) aura of invincibility a bit, and resulted in a fairly flat performance against Federer at Wimbledon - yes Fed played well, but Djokovic looked tired, probably more mentally than physically (it was only 3 sets, and Djoko's run through the tournament hadn't been overly demanding).