Where does Djoker go from here?

Djoker has completely lost momentum.

Nadal has reversed a series of losses against him, beating him the last three times they have played.

Federer then beat him in Wimbledon, a match that led to him losing the top ranking as well.

The last straw was losing to Murray at the Olympics, a tournament Djoker would have been desperate to win.

What this all means that he’s lost to all three of his big rivals the last time he’s played them. 2011 and the miraculous run of form seem a long way away.

Who does this benefit? Maybe Murray? With Nadal having injury problems, Federer heading into retirement and Djoker losing confidence, is this the time when Murray makes his move? It’s been a long time coming!

TA... to write off Djokovic is fraught with peril. He played in the final of FO.

Grass may not be his cup of tea, which should in fact show the effort that went into him winning W 2011.

Apart from Federer, putting consecutive successful seasons together, there are not many who have done that.

HC season is around the corner. I would wait and see the US season before anything about form can be said.

I knew this would happen. Just as Djokovic was over hyped last year. Now after a couple of losses it's as if his good play has been forgotten. The truth of Djokovics standard of play is somewhere in between. Of course he will "recover" from his losses...

In some ways the old order has been restored. Rafa winning the FO and Roger winning Wimbledon. Rafa just needs to recover from his injury problems and it will be as if 2011 didn't happen...

hawkeye you seem to be forgetting that Djokovic beat Nadal in the first slam of the year. Obviously, Novak is not as bullet-proof as last year but to expect him to keep that sort of form up would have been pretty ridiculous.

hawkeye wrote:Just as Djokovic was over hyped last year. Now after a couple of losses it's as if his good play has been forgotten.

I would not say over-hyped. He actually had a 70-6 season in 2011.

laverfan

Of course there was nothing to be "over hyped" about Djokovics amazing run in 2011. It was just that amazing. What I was talking about was the way many speculated that he would continue to play at that level, picking up slams at the same rate. I thought at the time that this would be unlikely. Just as I think it is unlikely that he is no longer a threat to both Federer and Nadal.

The answer to the question "Where does the Djoker go from here" Is (unfortunately for other players) nowhere! He is though and never has been invincible.

No players are invincible hawkeye. As for where he goes from here well he'll bid to regain that focus and steely determination and if he can do that then more slams will come.

CaladonianCraig

Ha ha! I agree with you 100%

Federer came back from #3 to #1 as did Nadal. Djokovic can also do the same.

I think the margin between Novak 2011 and 2012 is actually not that big. He is losing a lot of close sets this year that he was winning. His forehand is more up and down but I think I have made my point on this isssue before. He is still out of the top 4 in my mind the one with the brightest long term future. Fed is great but not going to maintain at 31 for long. Nadal incredible player so unfortunate with his injuries, and lets remember TA that Nadal has 3 straight wins on CLAY OVER djokovic as we know Nadal is not nearly as tough on hardcourt. Murray is going to always be tough and will definetly get his fair share of wins against Novak in the future but I am confident Novak will continue to have an edge there like he has had in there head to head over the course of their career. And I don't see too many you breakthrough talents that should be feared in the immediate future.

Novak works out some of the issues of consistency he has with his forehand he will go back to the top.

@ Socal , I see Murray to take over no.2 rank from Djoko early next year, may be just after AO when Djoko fail to defend it

The answer to the question is "Toronto" otherwise Berdych or Tsonga will end up as the number 1 seed.

invisiblecoolers wrote:@ Socal , I see Murray to take over no.2 rank from Djoko early next year, may be just after AO when Djoko fail to defend it

Good for you I see Djokovic regaining the number 1 ranking when federer has to defend thousands of points after the USO open and Novak has to defend virtually zero. If Roger doesn't have at least a 2000 point edge after the USO, at least look for Novak to finish year end #1 again for the second straight year. Lets remember Roger would have no chance of being number one if Novak didn't tear his back out and collapse in the indoor season. The two reason he regained the number 1 ranking was 1 his win at wimbeldon and two that about 40 some odd weeks ago Novak didn't win many points for 2 months because of a torn back. Lets not get carried away the real number 1 is the year end 1 and Roger has a giant buttload of points as much as Djoko had early in the year to defend after the USO. And Novak is now going off of his weaker surfaces and onto the hardcourts. You know where he has won the last 3 slams played on the surface and made the finals of 4 straight hardcourt slams. Enjoy Roger's torn back induced number 1 ranking it won't last long.

But Socal Novak gonna lose truck loads of points in USO when Murray beats him in semi's

Will Novak ever play like he did last year again? No. In terms of form and results, it was a one off.

Will Novak ever win slams again? Of course. I think he'll reach double figures.

Will Novak ever be number 1 again? I think so. he's a marvellous all round player. He and Rafa will both have spells at no.1 after Rog goes. Murray will win many slams IMO but will never gain enough clay points in my opinion to threaten Rafa and Novak for number 1.

There is such short-termism in tennis. All of a sudden people are questioning Novak, which I find bizarre! He lost the FO final to Rafa, Wimby semis to Fed and Olympic semis to Murray. None of those results are embarrassing, we're talking about the other top 3 players in the world.

He is just as likely to beat all 3 next time he faces them. Its that close betwen them. There is no crisis. When he starts not reaching the business end of these tournaments then there's something to worry about, but that won't happen. He'll be back.

socal1976 wrote: Lets remember Roger would have no chance of being number one if Novak didn't tear his back out and collapse in the indoor season. The two reason he regained the number 1 ranking was 1 his win at wimbeldon and two that about 40 some odd weeks ago Novak didn't win many points for 2 months because of a torn back. Lets not get carried away the real number 1 is the year end 1 and Roger has a giant buttload of points as much as Djoko had early in the year to defend after the USO.

Oh Poor Socal so Novak lost No.1 coz of injury, I heard it from you here first .

So Novak's win over Rafa last year didn't come at the expense of Rafa's injury?

Socal all three at the moment love the prospect of facing Novak than each other, Murray would love to be in Djoko's semi, so would Rafa, unfortunately Fed won't get him in USO.

Danny_1982 wrote:Will Novak ever play like he did last year again? No. In terms of form and results, it was a one off.

Will Novak ever win slams again? Of course. I think he'll reach double figures.

Will Novak ever be number 1 again? I think so. he's a marvellous all round player. He and Rafa will both have spells at no.1 after Rog goes. Murray will win many slams IMO but will never gain enough clay points in my opinion to threaten Rafa and Novak for number 1.

There is such short-termism in tennis. All of a sudden people are questioning him, which I find bizarre! He lost the FO final to Rafa, Wimby semis to Fed and Olympic semis to Murray. None of those results are embarrassing, we're talking about the other top 3 players in the world.

He is just as likely to beat all 3 next time he faces them. Its that close betwen them. There is no crisis. When he starts not reaching the business end of these tournaments then there's something to worry about, but that won't happen. He'll be back.

Danny I am not questioning him, I am just saying Djoko remaining invincible like in 2011 won't happen again, the gap is narrowed and everybody is hunting him, I see a strong resurgence from Murray, Del Po and obiviously Nadal.

I didn't mean you specifically IC, I meant people questioning him generally.

Danny_1982 wrote:I didn't mean you specifically IC, I meant people questioning him generally.

Gotcha Danny

Oh minions,

I bring thee sad tidings regarding brother Screech.

Novak is the current whipping boy of the top three players.

He is their bunny.

Whenever they want a high profile-low risk victory they pull Screech out of their back pockets and beat him up for two or three sets.

Poor skinny Screech, no amount of scrambling, bending and frankly Screeching is gonna save him for now.

He looks frightened in every match because he knows that a win against lowly opposition will only hasten the moment when he has to face one of the top three, and then the inevitable beatdown. His eyes grow wide with fear. his breathing becomes laboured. He sends routine smashes into the net. His volleys are all pushed into the stands. He slides and falls. The egg chamber appears to be broken.

Poor creature.

He had a momentary rise and transient glory. But it is over. He managed to masquerade as a true champion, but deep down in the recesses of his soul, little Screech realised that he was not a true champion. The true power and glory of men's tennis remains the King.



emancipator

Ok emancipator he masqueraded 5 times as a slam champion and as one of the three best players in the world for 5 years. I won't go further into your obvious poor attempt at humor and wummery. Cheers buddy hope you are doing well always nice to hear you, but please send me some of that good weed they get deep in the milky way, I want whatever it is your smoking buddy.

emancipator wrote:Oh minions,

I bring thee sad tidings regarding brother Screech.

Novak is the current whipping boy of the top three players.

He is their bunny.

Whenever they want a high profile-low risk victory they pull Screech out of their back pockets and beat him up for two or three sets.

Poor skinny Screech, no amount of scrambling, bending and frankly Screeching is gonna save him for now.

He looks frightened in every match because he knows that a win against lowly opposition will only hasten the moment when he has to face one of the top three, and then the inevitable beatdown. His eyes grow wide with fear. his breathing becomes laboured. He sends routine smashes into the net. His volleys are all pushed into the stands. He slides and falls. The egg chamber appears to be broken.

Poor creature.

He had a momentary rise and transient glory. But it is over. He managed to masquerade as a true champion, but deep down in the recesses of his soul, little Screech realised that he was not a true champion. The true power and glory of men's tennis remains the King.



emancipator

The Djokovic Era; 2011 - 2011

His defeats to Nadal were on Rafa's favourite surface. No other player beat him on red clay. He beat Rafa in their hard court meeting this year.

His loss to Fed was on Fed's favourite surface. He beat Fed in both their other meetings this year.

Yesterday's result was not a huge surprise. An on-form Andy is a superior grass court player.

I'll readily accept that there are some worrying things in the manner of those defeats. But let's get through the hard court swing before we start declaring his era as over.

I thought Djokovic looked favourite for the US Open on yesterday's showing. He played brilliantly. Murray was in terrific form backed by a home crowd, yet Djokovic probably deserved to be 1 set all. Over 5 sets on hard he will be very tough for either Fed or Murray to see off.

Of course Murdoch good posts. The guy has been so consistently good for so long, he is in his physical prime and as a close observer of his game i can tell you that he is still growing and developing as a player and still has room for further development. The losses to Nadal like you said all came on clay. The margins have been close he has lost a lot of close sets to his biggest rivals this year by very fine margins where last year it was the other way around. But that is the nature of tennis fans they are fickle. Whoever wins the last slam is going to dominate the game, and whoever lost has his game and his life in shambles and is on the way down.

Born Slippy wrote:I thought Djokovic looked favourite for the US Open on yesterday's showing. He played brilliantly. Murray was in terrific form backed by a home crowd, yet Djokovic probably deserved to be 1 set all. Over 5 sets on hard he will be very tough for either Fed or Murray to see off.

Exactly, Grass is Novak's least favorite surface he is an amazing player on a hardcourt and luckily for him from now till the end of November that is all we will be seeing. I look for him to have a strong second half of the season if he is healthy. Novak in the last 4 hardcourt slams dating back to USO 2010, the results have been as follows: US 2010 final, AO 2011 champion, USO 2011 champion, AO 2012 champion. I am hoping frankly that he gets nadal in his section at this point with Nadal not liking the USO surface as much as other slams and being banged up. Lets see what happens but i have given up getting favorable draws in slams as a Novak fan it is a rarity.

Well, a defeat is fine. No one is invincible forever. However, there is a pattern in these defeats.

Consider first the defeats to Rafa. Monte Carlo was acceptable, since it is Rafa's favourite surface. However, Rome is where Novak beat him last year and also where Nole has won two titles, so that was surprising. And in the French Open final, he capitulated other than in a short period of resurgence which was clearly due to a spell of fortunate rain.

And then, in Wimbledon, he never looked like he believed he could beat Federer. One found it hard to believe that this was the defending champion playing a player who hadn't even made the semifinal since 2009.

The worst must be the Olympics defeat to Murray in straight sets. The swagger has gone from the confident Serb.

Pointing out that Roger and Rafa came back succesfully is a useless comparison. Those are legends of the game? is Novak?

Worrying times for the Serb. His best is past him and Murray is rising in his game and confidence. So is Del Potro.

The Novak era might not be over, but this right here is his toughest period since the beginning of 2011. The question is whether he responds like a champion, or whether this is the beginning oif a slide down the rankings.

Good points TA, there has certainly been spottyness in his play. But he has been pretty good at quality results although not playing his best. As a close observer of his career and game I will tell you that this is not abnormal as a Djoko fan. He is like most tennis players a streak and timing player. I am confident like you say that he will respond like a true champion and comeback. Roger is not going to be able to maintain forever, the younger guys underneath him have been underwhelming, he has lost close matches to Nadal on clay no shame in that. And Murray well is always a tough match for anyone but I am confident that as he has throughout his career he will maintain that bit of edge he has had on him with 9-6 career h2h.


Longterm I am very, very optimistic so i enjoy all the naysayers going out on a limb now. At one time he was one slam wonder and not a true great player, you don't hear much of that anymore. And I think the naysayers now are on even more shakey ground but that is just my opinion.

Socal, yes. I'm in a slightly more objective mood about it all today!

We can see there are things in his game and mind that have been causing him problems since the start of the clay season. The results themselves really haven't been too bad though.

I think I saw enough in the game yesterday to suggest that he is back on the upward cycle with regards to his form. He's not there yet but I'm hoping his natural hard court habitat will help him get there!

His loss to Federer at Wibledon was not that bad. He had a chance to win the third, but didn't. Then Fed took his chance and that decided it. Those are the fine lines. Losing to Fed on grass AND indoors in such a close match is no big deal.

His loss yesterday is the same. In spells I actually thought it was his best tennis since Australia. But Murray played just a little bit better.

There is no Djokovic crisis. I find it amusing that some people think there is!

Danny_1982 wrote:His loss yesterday is the same. In spells I actually thought it was his best tennis since Australia. But Murray played just a little bit better.

I agree completely. Both players played some great stuff. I thought the difference was that Andy was playing his natural game but Djoko was doing his best on a surface he hasn't mastered.

If they meet at USO, it could be a barnstormer!

I love how Novak isn't the best on grass but has won WImbledon. I reckon he would have won a tournament if it was played on water last year. Yesterday Murray just outplayed him, especially on the big points where Murray's serve helped him out a lot. No reason for Novak fans to fret.

Djokovic confidence is shattered, now it will be a miracle for him to gain it back to win against the top 3.

Like Emanci mentioned, Djoko is the new whipping boy of the top4, Djoko won everything on site in 2011 when the top2 of the top3 had a bad year, now they both back Djoko is struggling to stamp himself among the top 4 now.

Tomorrow if DP beats Djoko that would take his moral anc confidence further down, but I guess Djoko won't let that happen.

Isn't the neurotic concern for Nole a little bit premature?

He's faced the best ever clay courter

Now he's on the fastest courts we've seen in years and so it's no surprise that he's second to Fed and Murray

Nole's great success and his continued strength is on medium fast hard courts, i.e. a wet US Open or the Aus Open

It's laughable to have all this concern for a player that could easily get his No.1 back by the end of the yeat

invisiblecoolers wrote:Djokovic confidence is shattered, now it will be a miracle for him to gain it back to win against the top 3

Yeah of course IC. I mean a defeat indoors at Wimbledon to the GOAT, a French defeat to the best Clay Courter ever and a defeat against a player who has always been as good as him on the fastest surfaces, means he's all washe up

After all he's getting too old, with him being the 18th yongest player in the Top 100

Please tell me your comments are a wind-up

Djokovic has hardly gone away, he won Miami was in the final of Monte Carlo, Rome and Roland Garros (losing to the greatest clay courter ever) Lost to a 7 times Wimbledon Champion in the semi-finals, (who he beat at the French in straight sets just a few weeks earlier) and now he's lost a semi to Andy Murray, a 4 time Wimbledon semi-finalist and was in the final just a few weeks ago with the entire crowd supporting him.

Give the guy a break!

In the short term where he could go is down the rankings; in the next three events one third of his ranking points will drop off. How many he replaces them with will become clear, but he needs a big turnaround or he could drop a long way off #1.

banbrotam wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:Djokovic confidence is shattered, now it will be a miracle for him to gain it back to win against the top 3

Yeah of course IC. I mean a defeat indoors at Wimbledon to the GOAT, a French defeat to the best Clay Courter ever and a defeat against a player who has always been as good as him on the fastest surfaces, means he's all washe up

After all he's getting too old, with him being the 18th yongest player in the Top 100

Please tell me your comments are a wind-up

Of course it is a wind up, generally directed at me. IC is a generally good poster who I don't has swallowed some crazy juice the last few days with his post. Certain posters enjoy to try to winding me up. But frankly, I enjoy the naysayers, I feel objectively they are out on a limb due to how young, talented, and driven Djokovic is. And as you indicated the surfaces the last couple of months aren't his favorite although he is a good player on both clay and grass he is a bit better and more comfortable on hardcourt. There is nothing to believe that he won't get a healthy chunk of points in the US hardcourt season and in the subsequent indoor season which at that point he has little or no points to defend.

Tennis is more about confidence that most people think. There are umpteen instances that illustrate this point. If Djoker loses to Del Potro today, I would be very surprised if he wins the US Open.

As someone mentioned above, it could be a toss-up if Murray and he meet in the USO semifinals or final. I find it incredible that this is mentioned as a positive. If playing the #4 player in the world is a 50-50 chance of winning, and given that he will have to beat two of the top 4 to win a slam, that means he has a 1 in 4 chance of winning a slam. This translated to one slam every 2 years, since clay and grass are ruled out anyway.

I don't see how this isn't very worrying for Djoker fans.

Nadal only beats him on clay. I will be concerned for Djokovic if he starts losing before the finals of the USO. Novak struggles finding rhythm on grass but it wont matter a jot when he goes on to win the USO.

He'll be very keen to get this wounded Nadal in hs half; the last thing he wants now is the risk of playing both Murray and Federer.

Answer to OP - into what should be the best part of the season for him should he keep his fitness.

Djoko of 2011 was quite possibly a one-off, but writing off the guy now is absurd. Don't forget, he is pretty much level-pegging with Nadal and Federer for most points scored so far this calendar year. He's still my favourite for y/e no 1, although my hope is that Murray is the next player to establish his credentials in the top 4.

Yeah Novak is some whipping boy. Beat nadal in oz open final, beat federer in French open semis and nearly took nadal to 5 in the French. Beat Murray in both Australian open semis and miami finals. Novak at the slams this year:
Won Australian open
Runner up French open
Semis at Wimbledon

Truly abysmal alright!! Olympics lets be honest is not as big a del, best of 3 sets is much more of a lottery. That is the reason murray has never beaten federer or Novak in a slam. So much harder to beat the top players in 5 sets

He's clearly not a whipping boy, but you'd agree he needs to pull it together in the next three events?

He's got a break with Federer and Nadal, and surely too Murray, withdrawing from Toronto. That should protect his 1000 points.

banbrotam wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:Djokovic confidence is shattered, now it will be a miracle for him to gain it back to win against the top 3

Yeah of course IC. I mean a defeat indoors at Wimbledon to the GOAT, a French defeat to the best Clay Courter ever and a defeat against a player who has always been as good as him on the fastest surfaces, means he's all washe up

After all he's getting too old, with him being the 18th yongest player in the Top 100

Please tell me your comments are a wind-up

Banbro don't be silly, how on earth is a windup?

Djoko's confidence is shattered you can see defeat after defeat, its really gonna take some time for him to regroup and regain it, he gonna struggle against top 3 for quite some time from here on.

I never said Djoko never deserved his slams for me to wind up his fans , I just stated some facts that his confidence is down for the moment.

He's lost to Del Potro as well, in straight sets, and looked totally out of sorts throughout the match. Arguably, Djokovic is fifth in the world based on recent form.

Exactly TN

Tennisanorak wrote:He's lost to Del Potro as well, in straight sets, and looked totally out of sorts throughout the match. Arguably, Djokovic is fifth in the world based on recent form.

Losing a couple of matches should not be considered career-threatening.

When I wrote this, many people justifiable seemed to disagree with me.

After yet another defeat to a top player on his favourite surface, what do people feel now? That this will pass, or is this the mirror image of 2011 for Djokovic? Are we going to see a fall as dramatic as his rise in 2011?

He's still top of the points race over the season. Let's be honest, if it wasn't for last season we'd be saying this is Djokovic's best season in his career.

He is losing matches against other top 4 players that he beat in 2011, not because he's not playing well (most of the time) but because they are playing better on the big points.

He will end the season with either 1 or 2 slams. Hardly disastrous. By any standards a great season... Unless people think he should be judged against what he achieved last year. But those people are in for a lot of disappointment because nobody will match Novak's 2011 for many many years.