Bragging rights in the HC and records

Obviously there's been a lot of talk from the Pro12 clubs about how well they've been doing in the HC.

I thought it would be interesting to break down the records of teams in the HC vs opposition historically.

I'll start with my own club Saracens.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/4800101.stm

23 wins - 16 losses - Heineken Cup

0 - 3 vs Munster - 34 -35 and 31-30 (1999-2000) and 16-18 in 2007-8

1-1 vs Colomiers - 19-16 (L), 52-15 (W)

2-0 vs Pontypridd - 18-22 and 52-35

2-0 vs Toulouse - 22-32 and 37-30 in 2000/2001

3-1 vs Ulster - 55-25 and 13-21 in 2000/2001 and 19-10 (L) and 18-10 in 2005/6

0-2 vs Cardiff -24-14, 23-32 in 2000/2001

3-3 vs Biarritz - 22-10 (W) and 43-13 (L) in 2005/6, 22-21 (L) and 45-16 (W) in 2007/8, 1-10 (L)20-16 (W) in 2011/12

4-0 vs Treviso - 17-30 and 35-30 in 2005/6, 42-17 and 20-26 in 2011/12

2-0 vs Glasgow -33-31 and 17-21 in 2007/8

2-0 vs Viadana - 72-7 and 26-34 in 2007/8

3-0 vs Ospreys - 19-10 in 2007/8, 31-26 and 13-16 in 2011/12

1-1 vs Racing Metro - 21-24 (L) and 14-19 (W) in 2010/11

0-2 vs Leinster - 23-25 and 43-20 in 2010/11

0-3 vs Clermont - 25-10 and 14-24 in 2010/11, 3-22 in 2011/12

Brief summary - strong historically vs Toulouse,Ulster,Treviso,Glasgow and Ospreys. Not so good vs Cardiff, Leinster and Clermont. Honours even with Biarritz and Racing Metro.


Would be interesting to get other opposition breakdowns.

Harlequins have the honour of being the only club to have lost to Connacht in the Heiny

We did also beat Toulouse away but who cares about that?

Perpignan and LI have a better than 50% record against us in the cup I'd say. Not sure about the rest, will see if i can find anything...

Yappysnap

Quins record in the HC:

19 wins, 3 draws, 33 losses.

Breaking it down would take some time.

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/harlequins.php?section=4

Mickado

Leinster have won 77 matches, drawn 3, 35 loss in 115 matches.

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/leinster_rugby.php?section=3

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/leinster_rugby.php?section=4

18 wins, 6 losses, 1 draw vs English clubs . Wow!

We have conceded more tries than we have scored (even though we have won 56 matches and lost 47). Also London Irish have never ever beaten us (in any competion ever).

Toulouse still owns 4 records from the same game back in 1998 : biggest win (108-16), most point scored (108), most tries scored (16) and most converstions scored (14).

I think the English clubs would have a good record against the Provinces, as they were running as pretty much professional clubs before professionalism.
The Provinces took a number of years to catch up, and it would be intresting, if they overturned the records, to have winning % against English teams

Ulster
Overall Stats
Played 103
Wins 47
Draws 3
Losses 53
Total Points For 2137
Total Points Against 2369
Total Tries For 191
Total Tries Against 246
Total Conversions For 135
Total Conversions Against 166
Total Penalty Goals For 278
Total Penalty Goals Against 254
Total Drop Goals For 26
Total Drop Goals Against 15
Most Appearances 57 (David Humphreys)
Top Points Scorer 564 (David Humphreys)
Top Try Scorer 18 (Andrew Trimble)
Biggest Win 59 - 3 (v Benetton Treviso 2002)
Heaviest Defeat 3 - 56 (v London Wasps 1997)
Most Consecutive Wins 7
Most Consecutive Defeats 6
Most Points In A Match 61 (v Ebbw Vale 1998)
Most Tries In A Match 8 (v Benetton Treviso 2002)
Most Conversions In A Match 7 (v Ebbw Vale 1998)
Most Penalty Goals In A Match 6 (v Colomiers 1999)
Most Drop Goals In A Match 4 (v London Wasps 2001)
Highest Attendance 81774
Total Home Attendance 1097539

Most consecutive wins - 8
Most consecutive games without defeat - 15

Think at least one of those is a record.

whocares wrote:Toulouse still owns 4 records from the same game back in 1998 : biggest win (108-16), most point scored (108), most tries scored (16) and most converstions scored (14).

The best part of that record was that Toulouse were beaten by the same team the following week! Ebbw Vale take a bow!

Mickado wrote:

whocares wrote:Toulouse still owns 4 records from the same game back in 1998 : biggest win (108-16), most point scored (108), most tries scored (16) and most converstions scored (14).

The best part of that record was that Toulouse were beaten by the same team the following week! Ebbw Vale take a bow!

true - its all well remembered unfortunately...
to be honest I am not going to bother to comment on what happened there and the dodgy circumstances surrounding that game ..shameful ....

.

Mickado wrote:

whocares wrote:Toulouse still owns 4 records from the same game back in 1998 : biggest win (108-16), most point scored (108), most tries scored (16) and most converstions scored (14).

The best part of that record was that Toulouse were beaten by the same team the following week! Ebbw Vale take a bow!

Haha ! Those cwazy Fwench !!

Tigers were the first team, and until Leinster won back in May the only team, to defend the HEC.

I think the English clubs would have a good record against the Provinces, as they were running as pretty much professional clubs before professionalism.
The Provinces took a number of years to catch up, and it would be intresting, if they overturned the records, to have winning % against English teams

Not sure about that, didn't Ulster win the competition in the late 90's with the HEC only forming for the 1995-96 season. They must have been fairly quick into professionalism to win against the other European nations.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Tigers were the first team, and until Leinster won back in May the only team, to defend the HEC.

I think the English clubs would have a good record against the Provinces, as they were running as pretty much professional clubs before professionalism.
The Provinces took a number of years to catch up, and it would be intresting, if they overturned the records, to have winning % against English teams

Not sure about that, didn't Ulster win the competition in the late 90's with the HEC only forming for the 1995-96 season. They must have been fairly quick into professionalism to win against the other European nations.

English clubs didn't compete then.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Tigers were the first team, and until Leinster won back in May the only team, to defend the HEC.

I think the English clubs would have a good record against the Provinces, as they were running as pretty much professional clubs before professionalism.
The Provinces took a number of years to catch up, and it would be intresting, if they overturned the records, to have winning % against English teams

Not sure about that, didn't Ulster win the competition in the late 90's with the HEC only forming for the 1995-96 season. They must have been fairly quick into professionalism to win against the other European nations.

No English teams in the Comp that year

London Wasps

Total played 48

Total won 33

Total Drawn 1

Total Lost 14

Points total For 1377 Against 840

69% win ratio Won it twice 2003/4 & 2006/7.

Munster, Toulouse & Leinster plus one other club have a better win ratio.

Who is it?

Mickado wrote:Most consecutive wins - 8
Most consecutive games without defeat - 15

Think at least one of those is a record.

AFAIK Munster lost a 13 game winning streak in Thomond Park V Leicester (featuring Ian Humpfries) in 2008. The first HC game they ever lost in TP
Unless Toulouse or Leicester did similar....That is still the longest winning streak in the comp, so only the 2nd one is a record.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:London Wasps

Total played 48

Total won 33

Total Drawn 1

Total Lost 14

Points total For 1377 Against 840

69% win ratio Won it twice 2003/4 & 2006/7.

Munster, Toulouse & Leinster plus one other club have a better win ratio.

Who is it?

If it's not Tigers it must be someone who has not played that many......Like Clermont.

No not Clermont

Mickado wrote:
Most consecutive games without defeat - 15

The great thing about that one is......It's still going. Here's to 16 and beyond.

Biarritz?

Not Biarritz

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:London Wasps

Total played 48

Total won 33

Total Drawn 1

Total Lost 14

Points total For 1377 Against 840

69% win ratio Won it twice 2003/4 & 2006/7.

Munster, Toulouse & Leinster plus one other club have a better win ratio.

Who is it?

A clue - It is an English Club

Someone like Northampton, can't remember how many times they've been it but they've won it previously and did alright the other year to get into the final with relegation etc in between when they wouldn't have been playing so might have minimised their chances of losing to many games.

BigTrev is it one of those teams like Leeds that were only in it once?

Better win ratio than Wasps?

Has to be Tigers though

Stade Francais have a good ratio.

They have won 52, drawn 1, lost 26.

Can't be them though because it's below Wasps.

Sam - Not Saints

Scarlet - on the right lines but not Leeds

Beshocked - not Tigers

It's Newcastle Falcons who had a run up to the quarterfinals in 2004/5.

That puts them at 71%.

Hmm - well it's not Bath,London Irish,Saints,Gloucester,Sarries,Worcester or Exeter,Quins so that narrows it down!

You've got me.

Heineken Cup 2004/05 / Newcastle Falcons / Match History

Section Home VS Away
Quarter FInal Stade Francais 48 - 8 Newcastle Falcons
Pool 5 Newcastle Falcons 25 - 17 Gwent Dragons
Pool 5 Perpignan 33 - 12 Newcastle Falcons
Pool 5 Edinburgh Reivers 10 - 13 Newcastle Falcons
Pool 5 Newcastle Falcons 34 - 24 Edinburgh Reivers
Pool 5 Newcastle Falcons 19 - 14 Perpignan
Pool 5 Gwent Dragons 6 - 10 Newcastle Falcons

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:It's Newcastle Falcons who had a run up to the quarterfinals in 2004/5.

That puts them at 71%.

Yeah it had to be one of those sort of sides, I think the percentages can be used to cook the books a little (as your point proves).

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:It's Newcastle Falcons who had a run up to the quarterfinals in 2004/5.

That puts them at 71%.

Yeah it had to be one of those sort of sides, I think the percentages can be used to cook the books a little (as your point proves).

Who is cooking - these are hard facts.

Can't wait for the HC!

Leinster and Wasps are the only HC winners who have never lost a final....................... Oh all right Bath then. They don't count at this stage.

Most games played in Europe:

1. Toulouse: 125 (88 wins, 4 draws, 33 Losses).
2. Munster: 122 (86 wins, 1 draw, 35 losses).
3. Leinster: 115 (77 wins, 3 draws, 35 losses).
4. Leicester: 109 (72 wins, 4 draws, 33 losses).

Wasps are probably the most efficient at converting games into trophies:
Wasps: 25 (20 wins & 5 losses).

Leinster have played in 3 finals and won them all.

Leinster v Munster 2009 has the highest attendance with 82208

O'Driscoll is the 2nd highest try scorer, one behind the man who's inflicted the most suffering on the Irish people since Cromwell, Vincent Clerc.

Just spotted an interesting (Probably only to me and perhaps one other person in the whole world) piece of symmetry.

Ulster v Northampton in the back to back games in December.

Both won and lost a HC final. But not only that. They won them back to back, and then lost them back to back 12 years later.

Eh? Eh? What about that Eh?

Back to back games generally have the 2 biggest teams in the Group playing off against each other.

Dunno where that leaves Quins and Leicester?

Pi$$ed off perhaps, and claiming anti English bias?

HC bragging rights were only invented in 2006.

JeniferMcladyboy

With Leicester,Ospreys and Toulouse in one group, one of the three was always going to have to face Treviso in the back to back games. Ospreys are the Pro12 champs, Toulouse the Top 14 champs so this season these two sides take precedence.

Quins not getting Connacht or Biarritz is odd though. Quins vs Zebre in the back to backs has to be one of the biggest mismatches ever.

Cardiff Blues as 1st seeds could be upset at not getting either Sale or Toulon in the back to back.

I am not complaining though. Always nice to get top billing.

I think the Scarlets can claim to have the longest run of defeats (an a 0pt season).

I think the Scarlets can claim to have the longest run of defeats (an a 0pt season).

Tigers having been in 5 finals and only won 2 is a depressing statistic, not sure it breaks any records though.

Back to back games generally have the 2 biggest teams in the Group playing off against each other.

Dunno where that leaves Quins and Leicester?

From the point of view of trying to win the thing it could actually be a good advantage. If we go out and win tbp victories home and away it lays down the gauntlet to the Ospreys and Tolouse, mess up and we've got you. That's if we can actually perform better than the average under 7s squad away from home though.

On a personal note it's gash, was hoping to have part of my stag do at the home leg of the HEC double header. Hmm back to the drawing board there then.

beshocked wrote:JeniferMcladyboy

With Leicester,Ospreys and Toulouse in one group, one of the three was always going to have to face Treviso in the back to back games. Ospreys are the Pro12 champs, Toulouse the Top 14 champs so this season these two sides take precedence.

Quins not getting Connacht or Biarritz is odd though. Quins vs Zebre in the back to backs has to be one of the biggest mismatches ever.

Cardiff Blues as 1st seeds could be upset at not getting either Sale or Toulon in the back to back.

I am not complaining though. Always nice to get top billing.

Surely winning such a third rate league doesn't raise a team higher than the mighty Leicester who came 2nd in a vastly superior league with relegation (this year anyway) and everything.

Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.

Surely winning such a third rate league doesn't raise a team higher than the mighty Leicester who came 2nd in a vastly superior league with relegation (this year anyway) and everything

Standard anti-AP bias.

Jenifer Mcladyboy to be fair to the O's they did beat Leinster to win the Pro12 which is no mean feat even when we know what the bread and butter is for Leinster.

Leicester are the only team to lose 3 HC finals. But Leinster have lost EVERY Magners/Rabo final there has ever been. 66% of them at home.

Toulouse are top seeds. Leicester are 2nd seeds in their group.

Quins are the Reigning English champs. But Connacht and Biarritz, 8th and 9th in their leagues respectively, get the back to backs.

As the septics would say. Go figure.