London Welsh v Tigers Sold Out!

Well not really, but for a while their ticketing system thought it was. When you log on to the LW website the following message pops up:

Spoiler:

I guess that is why they are looking to hire an admin assistant.

On a separate note I see that to save money they are trying to recruit physios on a 12 month unpaid intern contract. I must admit this worries me slightly. As incidents in pre-season matches have shown it is important to have proper medical facilities and staff.

Shows the massive divide in the AP between the haves and have nots...!

Relagation and promotion doesn't come close to the wealthy clubs who can buy their way through.

maestegmafia wrote:Shows the massive divide in the AP between the haves and have nots...!

Relagation and promotion doesn't come close to the wealthy clubs who can buy their way through.

Yet Quins and Saints have both been relegated in recent years, while Bath almost went down recently.

Quins and saints were not as wealthy when they were relegated mate.

Saints sold loads of land the club owned and filled their coffers.

Saints sold loads of land the club owned and filled their coffers.

They've always been run as a business. A lot of clubs have sold land in recent years. Rugby clubs generally have land on the edges of towns and cities and over time those cities and towns have expanded and big offers have been made by companies looking to develop the land. I've known a few local clubs here in Leicestershire sell their modest grounds, buy a new field prepare it for rugby and build a fancy new clubhouse with cash to spare. It's stupid to turn down that kind of cash when it's on offer.

Oxford Welsh are still recovering from their near bankruptcy a few years ago, the fact they spent all their cash on players rather than infastructure is coming back to bite them in the ass. If they'd bothered putting in places the foundations advised by the RFU they'd be in a better position to cope. At least a season in the AP will help bolster their finances.

It shows that using legal wrangling to get around entry criteria and having promotion based only on on-field performance is a bad idea. We need to have strict criteria in place which are bullet proof (what the RFU are looking at in September) that require good infrastructure.

Exeter are an example of club of 'have nots' but they did the right thing and are doing well. London Welsh didn't do the right thing.

HammerofThunor wrote:It shows that using legal wrangling to get around entry criteria and having promotion based only on on-field performance is a bad idea. We need to have strict criteria in place which are bullet proof (what the RFU are looking at in September) that require good infrastructure.

Exeter are an example of club of 'have nots' but they did the right thing and are doing well. London Welsh didn't do the right thing.

Ring fencing basically.

As Sam points out, any club in the AP is going to earn a lot of cash.

Make the promotion tougher and it will be even less likely to happen. Then you will start to see teams at the top of the league fielding weakened sides against some teams they dream easy to beat so they can concentrate on winning the HEC.

For the AP to work the way the fans want it to. You all keep saying that you need relegation to be a realistic option. Otherwise the competitiveness will change.

Well no not ring fencing. Unless you think clubs can't be expected to develop themselves. Currently Leeds and Bristol would be ok to be promoted. Pirates are close. Nottingham may be able to get their soon-ish.

To me relegation isn't important. The important thing is the chance of promotion and therefore you need relegation.

Just want to discourage teams from spending all their money on players and ignoring their infrastructure. I don't see how that is a bad thing. Give the championship clubs something to aim for but make it clear they need to be well run on and off the field.

All ring fencing would do would take away the point of developing themselves because there's no-where to go.

Come on, this has been gone over many times now. You must get the point.

Every professional competition in the world has entry requirements. All the pro-football leagues in the UK, Welsh premiership (rugby), English championship (rugby), etc. Why aren't there 3 Scottish sides? Because it wasn't financially viable. Same with the 5th Region.

maestegmafia wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:It shows that using legal wrangling to get around entry criteria and having promotion based only on on-field performance is a bad idea. We need to have strict criteria in place which are bullet proof (what the RFU are looking at in September) that require good infrastructure.

Exeter are an example of club of 'have nots' but they did the right thing and are doing well. London Welsh didn't do the right thing.

Ring fencing basically.

As Sam points out, any club in the AP is going to earn a lot of cash.

Make the promotion tougher and it will be even less likely to happen. Then you will start to see teams at the top of the league fielding weakened sides against some teams they dream easy to beat so they can concentrate on winning the HEC.
For the AP to work the way the fans want it to. You all keep saying that you need relegation to be a realistic option. Otherwise the competitiveness will change.

What? Like in the RABO you mean?

John Taylor, the managing director of London Welsh was pretty honest on Rugby Club last night about where Welsh are at in terms of finance and structure. He knows they will be relegated, but ultimately this year will benefit them as they then get the parachute payment, and can then put better structures in place to come back up again.

My view around the whole promotion/relegation thing, is that if a side has earned promotion on the pitch, then provided they can show that they have structures in place to safely play in the Premiership, so in essence medical and player welfare stuff, then they should be in.

Things like minimum capacity and primacy of tenure shouldn't come into it in my view.

I watched that too and admired his candour.

What I didn't agree with was Will Greenwood's assertion that the promotion of Oxford Welsh was 'absolutely the right thing'. I disagree vehemently. Lots of other people do too. I really hope Tigers bruise 'em, and bruise 'em bad on Sunday. That'll teach them.

See I agree with Will. They won the Championship. Now whether you agree with the system in place for deciding who wins it or not (I don't like it personally as you can finish 8th in the regular season and be crowned champions), they are the champions, and for me on that basis alone it is entirely right that they are promoted.

Ozzy3213 wrote:See I agree with Will. They won the Championship. Now whether you agree with the system in place for deciding who wins it or not (I don't like it personally as you can finish 8th in the regular season and be crowned champions), they are the champions, and for me on that basis alone it is entirely right that they are promoted.

It does seem farcical that a team can earn promotion on the pitch but don't apparetly have a club infrastructure that enables them to be promoted. Conversely, you have a team like Falcons who've only stayed in the AP because the Championship side that won aren't eligible for promotion.

Pete,

Would LW have been able to get promoted if they had spent money on the structures rather than players? I feel they cheated other championship sides who played by the rules.
I sincerely hope that their failure to secure properly trained medical staff will not co-incide with the sort of injury suffered by Joe Ansbro.


Jimpy,
The Falcons have gone down.

I wouldn't have imagined looking at their side last year that they spent a lot of money on players rather than structures LT, they simply peaked at the right time to win the ludicrous play off system.

I don't think they believed that they would win the league, but having found themselves in the position to, can you really blame them for wanting to be promoted.

They did not break any rules, so I am not sure how they have cheated other championship sides.

LondonTiger wrote:Pete,

Would LW have been able to get promoted if they had spent money on the structures rather than players? I feel they cheated other championship sides who played by the rules.
I sincerely hope that their failure to secure properly trained medical staff will not co-incide with the sort of injury suffered by Joe Ansbro.


Jimpy,
The Falcons have gone down.

Blimey, there's no flies on you is there....

Actually they did break the rules - the rules were just judged unfair. The rest of the championship abided by the rules.

I have a real fear that this promotion will be a pyhric victory and cause yet another historic club to go bust. Even if London Welsh survive we have seen yet another London club move out of the city.

Jimpy wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:
Jimpy,
The Falcons have gone down.

Blimey, there's no flies on you is there....

The following quote did make it seem as if you thought they had not:

Conversely, you have a team like Falcons who've only stayed in the AP because the Championship side that won aren't eligible for promotion.

LT, they didn't break any rules in terms of where they spent money, or in terms of winning the league.

I think you are also incorrect in saying that they broke rules in gaining promotion. The failed to meet a criteria that was judged to be heavy handed and unfair, and on that basis they were allowed to be promoted. That is not the same as breaking rules, and nor does it constitute cheating the other sides in the division, who all would have had the opportunity to do what London Welsh did, had they have obtained the results on the pitch which ensured that they had their name engraved on the Championship trophy.

I believe there are players critical to LWs success who would not have been at the club if LW had been trying to meet the requirements. Other championship sides would have been in a better place come play-offs if they had recruited players rather than trying to develop the club.

As you disagree with my point - we will have to agree to disagree.

Which players do you see as being critical to their success?

They certainly could not have offrded to pay Alex Davies or Joe Ajuwa, two new signings for last year, nor take Max Lahiff on loan from your boys.

They are up now, I hope they survive to the end of the season and beyond as a club.

Max Lahiff cost them nothing. He was not on loan, he was dual registered, as a few of our players were. It was an arrangement that benefitted us as well as fringe players for us got regular rugby.

The system would work better without the playoffs.

London Welsh finished fourth behind three teams that may have had better infrastructure. Certainly Bristol and Bedford have been up and down.

If it looks like your winning or in the top three, which last season LW weren't, they were ten points behind the top three. But of it looks like your winning the league you have time to prepair for promotion.

If the rules are made tighter the Premiership will ring fence itself more. The divide between top championship and top premiership will grow massively.

Or it would make clubs plan ahead like Exeter did and Pirates are doing. Instead of flying by the seat of their pants. Then hopefully when they DO get promoted they don't have to use medical support in the form of an unpaid medical intern

Im actually concerned that like Britsol last year,...we could stroll the league (depending on how sunday goes) and yet lose on game to a team from way down...the play offs are rubbish.

Ive said all along Britsol should be in the AP.

I thought the system used for the play offs last year had been scrapped for this season?

Aw ive heard nothing mate...i thought it was just the same..ill have a look.

I'm not sure about that, I know there'll still be mid week play off games...

Pity they dont have a bigger ground

Ozzy3213 wrote:John Taylor, the managing director of London Welsh was pretty honest on Rugby Club last night about where Welsh are at in terms of finance and structure. He knows they will be relegated, but ultimately this year will benefit them as they then get the parachute payment, and can then put better structures in place to come back up again.

My view around the whole promotion/relegation thing, is that if a side has earned promotion on the pitch, then provided they can show that they have structures in place to safely play in the Premiership, so in essence medical and player welfare stuff, then they should be in.

Things like minimum capacity and primacy of tenure shouldn't come into it in my view.

So their owners can put the parachute payments in their pockets?

PSW what are you on about?

The playoffs are only the top 4 for next year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18102034

maestegmafia, I think he's talking about the parachute payments being used to pay-off a club's debt to the owner.

HammerofThunor wrote:The playoffs are only the top 4 for next year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18102034

maestegmafia, I think he's talking about the parachute payments being used to pay-off a club's debt to the owner.

He's talking about the club repaying the loan it took from some of the directors..!

Aye, I see..!

He makes it sound like the clubs benefactors are trying to rip the club off.