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England v SA, 5th ODI Debate

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Liam
Duty281
chrisss
Biltong
Fists of Fury
ShankyCricket
LondonTiger
skyeman
eirebilly
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler
guildfordbat
JDizzle
Shelsey93
msp83
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England v SA, 5th ODI Debate Empty England v SA, 5th ODI Debate

Post by msp83 Wed 05 Sep 2012, 9:56 am

The final ODI of the 5 match series between South Africa will start in a few hours from now at Trent Bridge. England go into the match with a 2-1 lead South Africa will have to win the match to draw the series.
England go in with home advantage, and they have been quite a force in ODI cricket at home. On paper they have a better balanced side as well with number 7 Samit Patel any day a better bat than his South African counterpart Wayne Parnell who averages less than 20. England are without Jonathan Trott thouth, who is out with a hand injury. This should most likely give Jonny Bairstow a much awaited opportunity. Ravi Bopara might be promoted up the order to 3, or perhaps considering his recent poor form with the bat, perhaps Kieswetter would be asked to do the job.
For South Africa the middle order isn't firing, and the bowling is not been consistent. Morne Morkel should return, possibly at the expense of Tsotsobe.
The weather is expected to be warm and sunny, but the late evening dew might be a factor.

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Post by msp83 Wed 05 Sep 2012, 9:57 am

I hope England would give a chance to Chris Woakes as well.

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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 05 Sep 2012, 10:12 am

We must remember that we need to win this match. With what we have in the squad Bairstow will replace Trott - hopefully they don't change the plan completely and put Kieswetter or Bairstow at three, as that would be totally illogical.

For SA Morkel should return for McLaren, who offers very little at this level.

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Post by msp83 Wed 05 Sep 2012, 10:36 am

I am not sure about Morkel for McLaren. Not that McLaren has done anything great, but already the balance of the side is problematic and the middle order is lacking form. Parnell at 7 is too much of a risk. But at the same time Parnell has bowled better than Tsotsobe, and I think Morne will have to come in for Tsotsobe.

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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 05 Sep 2012, 10:46 am

If they get their top 6 in the right order you shouldn't need to use number 7 and below. If they do then I think Peterson is pretty decent, and should be above Parnell in the order.

I think Tsotsobe is a very handy one-day bowler. He hasn't had a stunning series but he's taken a couple of early wickets, and is miles better than McLaren.

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Post by JDizzle Wed 05 Sep 2012, 10:53 am

I would like to see Woakes given a chance too. Probably for Patel, rather than one of the seamers but he does deserve it and if there ever was a ground where it will swing rather than seam then it is Trent Bridge.

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Post by guildfordbat Wed 05 Sep 2012, 10:54 am

Msp - thanks for starting off the thread. Good introduction.

Woakes is an interesting one. I'm unconvinced by his bowling (certainly at Test level) but continue to hear very favourable reports about his batting. It would confuse the batting order but a case could probably be made - if not now, before long - for him replacing Bopara in the ODI side. Bopara's batting is too unreliable for me and whilst Bopara's bowling has recently been more than effective, I'm very doubtful that it will last (as flagged on the 4th ODI thread).

I completely agree with you about Parnell. He's not good enough to be batting at seven. I remember him failing abysmally when batting up the order in limited overs county cricket last season. I didn't understand why then he was so high up and nothing has since happened to change my view.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 05 Sep 2012, 10:55 am

Remind me why do England need to win this match? Any more so than any other of course
When it comes down to it both teams have made a decision to take this series fairly lightly and arent playing full strength line ups even bfore injuries.
England have a tough choice to make with Trott out, they simply dont have the option of going with their usual gameplan in the batting. If Cook gets out cheaply again it leaves them without any anchor at all. Do we look to Bairstow and Bopara to try and bat like Trott or say go out and do what you do best, play your strokes.

Think everyone would like to see woakes get a shot, he seems to find it nigh on impossible to get selected under any circumstances.

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Post by eirebilly Wed 05 Sep 2012, 11:23 am

England v South Africa: Jonathan Trott and Andy Flower to miss ODI Shocked

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/19460435


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Post by msp83 Wed 05 Sep 2012, 11:26 am

There were reports that Flower would be spending the week having further meetings with Kevin Pietersen to resolve the issues. However the ECB has denied those.

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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 05 Sep 2012, 11:35 am

Resting Flower has been a suggested discussion point for a while. I think its essential to avoid him becoming mentally drained as Strauss did.

However, I'm not sure that resting him from individual games will make much difference. I'd like him to take a whole series or tour off at some point to recharge the batteries.

This series could have been an opportunity, but it hasn't been taken. Maybe he should skip the ODI leg of the India tour.

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Post by skyeman Wed 05 Sep 2012, 12:22 pm

Not sure of the weather yet, toss coming soon.

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Post by skyeman Wed 05 Sep 2012, 12:24 pm

OOPs No it's not, just seen they have changed this one to a 2pm start, sorry.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 05 Sep 2012, 12:27 pm

A week of meetings? No wonder he needs a break!
Cant they do it by Blackberry messenger?

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Post by skyeman Wed 05 Sep 2012, 12:32 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:A week of meetings? No wonder he needs a break!
Cant they do it by Blackberry messenger?


Laugh

KP would.

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Post by skyeman Wed 05 Sep 2012, 12:45 pm

Right, changed my mind a wee bit on Bell, he should stay opening. And if Cook can return to form and Eng get a very good start would make the difference as to who i would put in at three.


Cook
Bell
Bops (looks wrong in his form, but i see no other choice}
Morgan
JB
Kieswetter
Woakes
Tredwell
Dernbach
Anderson
Finn

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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:09 pm

skyeman wrote:Right, changed my mind a wee bit on Bell, he should stay opening. And if Cook can return to form and Eng get a very good start would make the difference as to who i would put in at three.


Cook
Bell
Bops (looks wrong in his form, but i see no other choice}
Morgan
JB
Kieswetter
Woakes
Tredwell
Dernbach
Anderson
Finn

thumbsup Patel would obviously replace Woakes if its a slow pitch

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Post by LondonTiger Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:34 pm

England have won the toss and will bat first .

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Post by ShankyCricket Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:35 pm

Finn has been dropped Rolling Eyes

Knee jerking of the highest order!

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Post by LondonTiger Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:37 pm

Nah he has been rested to prevent his knee from jerking the stumps.

I thought Anderson would be rested for Woakes - but instead it is Finn, just a case of giving the Warwickshire lad a game.

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Post by skyeman Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:38 pm

Don't think it is Knee jerking, they won the last two. But i am surprised.

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Post by LondonTiger Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:39 pm

Sa brink in Ontong for McLaren and Morkel for Tsotsobe.

Morkel playing is sensible, Justin Ontong however is average at best.

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Post by Fists of Fury Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:39 pm

Great to see our boy Woakesy in the side. Wish him all the best!

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Post by skyeman Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:40 pm

thumbsup

Just a straight swap and kept Patel in for the added batting.

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Post by LondonTiger Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:41 pm

According to Cricinfo Justin Ontong is in to strengthen the batting. A man who averages 13 in ODIs with a SR < 70. He will go and make me eat my words - but that is a terrible decision.

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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:44 pm

In fairness Finn is due a rest - he'll be needed for all the T20 games coming up.

I might have been tempted to keep playing him here, but Woakes is due a go too and I guess the T20 is the big prize.

Don't get SA's change at all. Ontong for McLaren is an average bowler being replaced by an average batsman. They'll now need to get 10 overs out of Duminy, Ontong and maybe du Plessis.

I'd expect Morgan to come in ahead of Bairstow, but am glad to see Bopara at three - putting any of the others in that position would have no logic to it whatsoever. Bopara could conceivably bat to England's plan (granted, he isn't anything like Trott but he's not a natural dasher either); Bairstow or Morgan couldn't.


Last edited by Shelsey93 on Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by skyeman Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:44 pm

AN Cook*, IR Bell, RS Bopara, EJG Morgan, JM Bairstow, C Kieswetter†, JC Tredwell, SR Patel, JM Anderson, JW Dernbach, CR Woakes

Does this mean Bops is the No3.

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Post by ShankyCricket Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:44 pm

Back injury for Finn apparently. Hopefully nothing too serious. Glad to see Woakes get a chance though ahead of Bresnan.

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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:45 pm

skyeman wrote:AN Cook*, IR Bell, RS Bopara, EJG Morgan, JM Bairstow, C Kieswetter†, JC Tredwell, SR Patel, JM Anderson, JW Dernbach, CR Woakes

Does this mean Bops is the No3.

Should do. See my previous post for why that is the only option really.

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Post by skyeman Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:46 pm

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Back injury for Finn apparently. Hopefully nothing too serious. Glad to see Woakes get a chance though ahead of Bresnan.

thumbsup

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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:47 pm

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Back injury for Finn apparently. Hopefully nothing too serious. Glad to see Woakes get a chance though ahead of Bresnan.

I worry for Bresnan. His form has justified his non-selection in this series, but he now probably won't play in the T20s v SA and so if needed by England in Sri Lanka he won't have had any cricket under his belt... Maybe they'll give the whole squad a game at some point v SA?

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Post by Biltong Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:47 pm

Ontong doesn't convince me, in fact he has never convinced me.

Afternoon guys, almost forgot about today's game.
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Post by skyeman Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:48 pm

Shelsey93 wrote:
skyeman wrote:AN Cook*, IR Bell, RS Bopara, EJG Morgan, JM Bairstow, C Kieswetter†, JC Tredwell, SR Patel, JM Anderson, JW Dernbach, CR Woakes

Does this mean Bops is the No3.

Should do. See my previous post for why that is the only option really.


Aye, agreed.

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Post by skyeman Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:50 pm

. England, apparently, will bat Ravi Bopara at No. 3, despite his struggles, with Jonny Bairstow at four and Eoin Morgan staying at No. 5

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Post by skyeman Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:53 pm

Just said on cricinfo that "Justin Ontong has an identical high score of 32 in Tests, ODIs AND T20s"

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Post by skyeman Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:57 pm

I would like to see Cook more positive today, as he was before this series.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:58 pm

skyeman wrote:. England, apparently, will bat Ravi Bopara at No. 3, despite his struggles, with Jonny Bairstow at four and Eoin Morgan staying at No. 5

Erm

I stand by what I said before, there was no right answer. This isnt one.

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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 05 Sep 2012, 1:59 pm

Ontong has 1 List A 100 in 191 attempts...

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Post by ShankyCricket Wed 05 Sep 2012, 2:02 pm

Shelsey93 wrote:
shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Back injury for Finn apparently. Hopefully nothing too serious. Glad to see Woakes get a chance though ahead of Bresnan.

I worry for Bresnan. His form has justified his non-selection in this series, but he now probably won't play in the T20s v SA and so if needed by England in Sri Lanka he won't have had any cricket under his belt... Maybe they'll give the whole squad a game at some point v SA?
Not sure we will be so desperate that we have to play Bresnan in SL. He is bowling utter dross at the moment. Needs to lose weight, work on his fitness.

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Post by skyeman Wed 05 Sep 2012, 2:05 pm

Peterson on in the PP Shocked

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 05 Sep 2012, 2:06 pm

*cough* Woakes *cough*

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Post by skyeman Wed 05 Sep 2012, 2:11 pm

Yeahh Highest Eng opening partnership of the series.

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Post by ShankyCricket Wed 05 Sep 2012, 2:11 pm

skyeman wrote:Peterson on in the PP Shocked
Worked well against us in the WC but that was on a raging bunsen at Chennai.

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Post by skyeman Wed 05 Sep 2012, 2:16 pm

outside surely.

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Post by skyeman Wed 05 Sep 2012, 2:17 pm

What do i know!!

Bell gone an no reviews left.

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Post by skyeman Wed 05 Sep 2012, 2:17 pm

NOW THEN RAVI!!

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Post by skyeman Wed 05 Sep 2012, 2:19 pm

A case of Bell revisiting the UAE there.

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Post by chrisss Wed 05 Sep 2012, 2:20 pm

oh Ravi...

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Post by Duty281 Wed 05 Sep 2012, 2:20 pm

Ravi didn't last long did he? Still he's a specalist bowler this days!

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Post by skyeman Wed 05 Sep 2012, 2:21 pm

Told you when one goes, and Ravi comes in it might as well be two.

Eng 24/2

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