England Captain ?

From the impeccably reliable BBC:

"Chris Robshaw is not guaranteed to be England captain for the autumn internationals, head coach Stuart Lancaster has revealed.
The flanker gained credit for the way he led England during the Six Nations and summer tour to South Africa.
"We haven't decided on the captain yet," Lancaster told BBC Sport. "

Maybe a few more weeks remain for form / fitness / injury to colour our thinking.
But on what we know now, who should it be ? Robshaw, Hartley, Flood, ? Others ?
Your constructive observations are welcome.

Was Hartley not considered for Captain earlier this year?

I'm bias. Has to be Robshaw, level headed, consistent, HUGE work rate and makes those around him work harder; qualities a good captain needs.

Flood has good qualities, but isn't as consistent. Hartley seems have grown a lot since the summer tour, but still seems to be a little hot headed.

Flood is far from guaranteed to be no 10.

Hartley hasn't got too much competition for his spot but I prefer Robshaw as captain.

Robshaw is in good form. I don't see why a change is needed.

Alastair, Schalk Burger was always a little hot headed, when he took over the captaincy of the Stormers it helped his game tremendously.

In the context of the other comments Lancaster made in The Times (so no link - sorry), it sounds as if Robshaw is the leading contender, but he's hedging his bets in case of injury, and made a point of praising Hartley's leadership in the 3rd test.

SL is just being sensible.
Dont want to select robshaw to play just because he is captain. SL needs to select the squad first then pick the captain from that squad.
I think we all expect Robshaw to continue as he is currently playing well - but SL still needs to follow protocol.

He is also big on his leadership group - Players I would expect to be in that group are -
Robshaw
Hartley
Palmer
Flood
Foden

Maybe Brown and Dowson.

These are guys that have experience or club captaincy experience.

Hartley captained the 3rd test in RSA, to a draw. (Robshaw on injury list that week).
My own view is that Robshaw is the ourstanding candidate. I retain reservarions about Hartley's temperament (which in fairness seems to have improved in recent times), but for me Robshaw is the man. Not sure why Lancaster is drawing this out, except to keep Robshaw keen & lean.

Poorfour wrote:In the context of the other comments Lancaster made in The Times (so no link - sorry), it sounds as if Robshaw is the leading contender, but he's hedging his bets in case of injury, and made a point of praising Hartley's leadership in the 3rd test.

I should think the past year has taught him to hedge his bets. After all at the launch of the last 6Ns media campaign, he sent Tom Wood to stand alongside Warburton, Dusatoir, Ford, Parisse (and POC?). Injury cropped up and Robshaw was in and captain. Injury again cropped up in SA making Hartley the incumbent.

Lancaster will hopefully pick the team first and then the captain. I am not a believer that your selection should be forced by naming a captain well in advance.

also it is not as if Lancaster has phoned a journalist and said "I have not decided on the captain" rather he was asked a question and quite rightly said it was undecided.

What LondonTiger said. I imagine Lancaster's drawing it out in part because of the experience of the 6N last year. The assumption was that Wood would take the captaincy - to the extent that he was the one in all the pre-tournament publicity shots along with the other nations' captains - but then his injury prevented him from playing and Robshaw was given the first two games...

Ian Balshaw.

Seems a typical SL move. Keeping everyone on their toes and suggesting there is a level playing field and there will be no passengers.

Always good to have back up options but I'm not a fan of 10, your playmaker, as captain. I've always believed a captain best operates at the heart of the action and should be 1 to 9. Giving the captaincy can be a burden for some (BOD in the latter part of his career I'd suggest) and lift players to greater things or more sensible things, like Biltong mentioned with Burger.

So if Hartley has had experience and it was a good one, consider him next in line if Robshaw is injured.

I'm sure he is probably paying lip service to the whole "no one is guaranteed their spot" lark (except for 36 at Glaws of course ).

As long as Robshaw is fit he'll be captain. SL will want more leadership in the backs without doubt, but I just can't see him changing captain at this stage.

The two obvious contenders:

Hartley - No competiton for his spot at the moment. And has lead Saints strongly for several seasons now.

Robshaw - Currant imcumbant...and did very well leading. First choice 7 at the moment...though possibly not if we elect to play a L & R combo?

I'D go for Robshaw again at the moment...

If Hartley and Robshaw were injured who would he pick?

There's a real gap after them for first team choices who are in my opinion captaincy material.

yappysnap wrote:If Hartley and Robshaw were injured who would he pick?

There's a real gap after them for first team choices who are in my opinion captaincy material.

Wood would probably come in for Robshaw so likely to be in the frame, but there is no one else screaming out. Would he go for someone like Palmer?

Wood if he's fit i think Yappy

Seemed that was his first choice prior to Woods injuries

Yea I guess Wood. Palmer might be an option but he doesn't seem very loud or even talkative. And I don't think he can manage a whole game.

What do you think of Dan Cole at outside odds ?
Earns his starting place and I think his injury / availability record seems to be relatively good.

Danny Cipriani.

AWOP / GG, you are dredging up the past looking for a bite on here .

Avant Garde opinion to build on the success of the attacking revolution Mr Tree! That's all!

errr yes

yappysnap wrote:If Hartley and Robshaw were injured who would he pick?

There's a real gap after them for first team choices who are in my opinion captaincy material.

I'd imagine it would be the backrow replacement, Wood or Dowson, maybe Johnson.

I know he captained England U20s on numerous occasions, but has Care ever captained Quins before?

Bring back MJ as a player!

No but I'd like to see Care as a captain, I think it would make him a better player

Yeah, I think he would be a decent option if the others were out, he's probably the most authoritive SH with his pack we've had in ages and I would expect captaincy to have the same positive effect on his demeanour as it has had with similar spiky players before.

In my opinion Care has too much baggage plus he's not guaranteed to start.

The no 9 who can do no wrong in some people's eyes will challenge Care all the way if he can put in consistent good performances.

The last high point of English rugby, featured Balshaw at fullback. The man is still playing, unlike his 2003 colleagues, has a wealth of experience and to my mind is the ideal choice to link the old school thinking to the new younger generation.

Mike Tindall started in the centre in the 2003 WC Final.....he's still playing. Recall AWOP?

beshocked wrote: In my opinion Care has too much baggage plus he's not guaranteed to start.

The no 9 who can do no wrong in some people's eyes will challenge Care all the way if he can put in consistent good performances.

anotherworldofpain wrote:The last high point of English rugby, featured Balshaw at fullback. The man is still playing, unlike his 2003 colleagues, has a wealth of experience and to my mind is the ideal choice to link the old school thinking to the new younger generation.

If you're going down that route, the better answer is Nick Easter. He's still playing, still in form, has captained his country, and has played in more RWC finals than Balshaw.

That was tongue-in-cheek, obviously

LondonTiger wrote:

beshocked wrote: In my opinion Care has too much baggage plus he's not guaranteed to start.

The no 9 who can do no wrong in some people's eyes will challenge Care all the way if he can put in consistent good performances.

True though. Youngs will compete with Care for the no 9 spot. You also have the Dickson bros. Lancaster is a big fan of Lee Dickson.

Lancaster might want to unite the half back combo of Youngs-Flood to have a partnership that work well with each other.

Care unfortunately doesn't have a Quins no 10 he could partner up with for England.

Yes, but Balshaw has a 100% record in RWC finals! That's the kind of positivity required.

anotherworldofpain wrote:Yes, but Balshaw has a 100% record in RWC finals! That's the kind of positivity required.

Balshaw did not play, was an unused replacement I thought.

If Simpson could get his passing right...he'd be quite special at SH....but not sure thats going to happen quickly.

I do think Care should start at 9 though.

But Captain...stick with Robshaw...Hartley VC.

LondonTiger wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:Yes, but Balshaw has a 100% record in RWC finals! That's the kind of positivity required.

Balshaw did not play, was an unused replacement I thought.

What? But didn't he get a medal from the queen for his contribution? According to Wikipedia he came on as a sub in the vital part of extra time when ENG won the whole thing! So who better for captain than someone that influential?

anotherworldofpain wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:Yes, but Balshaw has a 100% record in RWC finals! That's the kind of positivity required.

Balshaw did not play, was an unused replacement I thought.

What? But didn't he get a medal from the queen for his contribution? According to Wikipedia he came on as a sub in the vital part of extra time when ENG won the whole thing! So who better for captain than someone that influential?

Careful AWOP with that allusion - Paul Collingwood got a medal for scoring 7 runs in the 2005 Ashes, so medals from the Queen don't necessarily reflect contribution. On the flip side Sherpa Tensing missed out on a very big medal from the Queen after climbing Everest because of philosohical objections from India ( ).

gregortree wrote:What do you think of Dan Cole at outside odds ?
Earns his starting place and I think his injury / availability record seems to be relatively good.

I could definitely live with that. Rate him very highly, and is a definite starter if fit unlike Care or Flood who are excellent but can be inconsistent.

Robshaw is playing well, works hard and is IMO a good leader. But if injured or goes off the boil, I'd love to see Cole as Captain.

Nah i would leave Cole away from that.

He's our sole TH prop...and you could argue our only player verging on World Class.
Lets not hang the captains noose around his neck.

It will be Robshaw, all this flowery talk about picking the side then the capt sounds great but it's all part of Stewie's slightly communist leanings!

I suggested Cole on here, but in reality do many teams have prop as skipper ?

Vickery, Smit... I can't think of that many prop-captains. Like fly half, it's too demanding a position technically to leave much room for captaincy, but that may change with the new breed of professional props coming through. I could enjoy seeing Marler captaining England, but not just yet.

I find it hard to get worked up about what Lancaster's said. Barring injury, it's very unlikely that Robshaw won't get a start, especially as he plays 6 or 7 so could be paired with Wood, Croft, Johnson or even Lawes or Waldrom.

Then it's a choice between Hartley, Robshaw and perhaps Wood for the captaincy. Wood doesn't have much experience, I don't think it would bother either of the other two much not to get it.

Roncero for Argentina was a pretty good captain, and I think Castro has captained Tigers and Italy at times.

Haskell maybe? He has the presence for the role any way and the experience.

I skipper my team from Prop too.

I think what Lancaster is doing by saying he is not sure who be Captin in the Ais is a good thing. Why should the Captain be named this early in the season?

And as been said, if he picks Robshaw as Captain now, and Robshaw gets injured before the Ais even start. Then he will have pick a new one.

Lancaster, I do believe is waiting untill nearer the time before he names the Captain.

No reason why a prop can't make a good international captain. Jim Aitken and David Sole show that. In theory it should be just as feasible as doing the job from hooker, which has been the spot from which many of the best captains in history have led their sides.

Think Cole is a great suggestion, by the way. Wouldn't be surprised to see him in situ by the time the next RWC rolls round.

ChequeredJersey wrote:No but I'd like to see Care as a captain, I think it would make him a better player

ooh left field!

Cole might be an option, it depends on what you want your Captain to do and how many leaders and energisers you have in the forwards and backs

AWOP
So far you have named Cipriani, Balshaw and Jonno in your squad.
Very left field as they say.
You need a few more to complete the squad though. Duckam ? Carling ? Teague ?