TUF 16

So is anybody watching this one? Watched them all so far & quite enjoyed it. Its got a good mix of fighters both style & personality wise & so far been some good fights bar the last one.

What are everybody's thoughts on Carwin & Nelson as coaches? I guess its more to hype there upcoming fight but I don't see there being any bad blood between these to, no good guy bad guy scenario like we've had in the past. Apart from the last episode & Nelsons way of picking the fight aside I've not been that impressed with him.

One thing i want to ask is how is everybody watching? I have no cable tv so just catch up on MMA Core which in the past has been on before its screened in the UK, I don't want to comment on it if people have not already seen it.

Im watching, ESPN.

Missed the fights to get on the show.

seen the first 2 fights.

Not bad so far.

Haven't seen any of the last few series.

I haven't got ESPN but would use MMA Core should i wanted to watch it.

Carwin and Nelson both seem like good guys but both are not worthy as coaches IMO. They need to sell the fight and i'm sure Nelson will provide the hype.

I'm not interested in Carwin or Nelson. Not in their fight or in the coaching abilities. This series just doesn't interest me.

Carwin seems alright tbh he is quite smart but Big Country seems lazy and Carwins training seems better. Alot of the fighters on this season seem like tools though and tbh I dont see any of them making it in the UFC they will get exposed there.

talkingpoint wrote:I'm not interested in Carwin or Nelson. Not in their fight or in the coaching abilities. This series just doesn't interest me.

I know where your coming from, neither in my opinion offer that much on the coaching front, Carwin a wrestler with a big punch & Nelson a BJJ black belt with a big punch & a granite chin, both mostly win this way. As for the fight itself I think it'll be decent, mostly stand up with them slugging it out. I always enjoy the series, good to see potentially the next stars of the UFC & follow who you like.

Waingro wrote:Carwin seems alright tbh he is quite smart but Big Country seems lazy and Carwins training seems better. Alot of the fighters on this season seem like tools though and tbh I dont see any of them making it in the UFC they will get exposed there.

The biggest tool has to be team Nelsons Lane. Imo a gym rat with a high school wrestling background who like the idea of being an MMA fighter, complete with mohawk & tribal tatoos. As Dana put it, stank the joint out in his qualifying fight & did little to improve on that in the latest episode. Says once he's in the ring he's an animal, hmmm a kitten maybe. Doesn't seem to like the training to much, lacks heart i think. Glad he got beat.

sohotnot wrote:

Waingro wrote:Carwin seems alright tbh he is quite smart but Big Country seems lazy and Carwins training seems better. Alot of the fighters on this season seem like tools though and tbh I dont see any of them making it in the UFC they will get exposed there.

The biggest tool has to be team Nelsons Lane. Imo a gym rat with a high school wrestling background who like the idea of being an MMA fighter, complete with mohawk & tribal tatoos. As Dana put it, stank the joint out in his qualifying fight & did little to improve on that in the latest episode. Says once he's in the ring he's an animal, hmmm a kitten maybe. Doesn't seem to like the training to much, lacks heart i think. Glad he got beat.

You are right mate

Well a better fight this week but quite possibly a bad decision, all at ringside apart from the judges expected a 3rd round. I can't really see how they came to the decision of a 10 8 1st round but the 2nd the guy didn't take advantage or press it enough maybe a drawn round?

Nelson still seems to be offering next to nothing as a coach & looks like he may continue with drawing straws to pick his fighters when they have the next pick, not very tactful.

Lane still acting a complete dick, seriously this guy is not a good fighter & doesn't have the mind set for it, mentally he's weak. I cant believe how he's trying to pick fights in the house & saying what a good fighter he is after his fights so far. I'm surprised he made it onto the first show.

Another good fight & another bad decision. Defo should have gone to a third, can't see how the judges gave it 10 8 in the 2nd. Apparently there's a controverial fight next week!

Again Nelson showed more poor coaching & the guys are feeling he says a lot of negative stuff after a defeat. Is he the worst coach in the history of the series? Must say I've been impressed with Ross Pearson in the smashes, really mixes stuff up & is very supportive. Also he seems a nice guy, pretty down to earth.

Just watched the 5th episode of the smashes and have to agree, really enjoyed Ross Pearson's coaching; he seems to care and know his stuff too.

Well another poor fight & another bad decision. I just don't know what fight the judges were watching. This season is going down hill imo, aside from the poor judging half the fights just aren't that good, we've got all this posturing & machismo in the house but come fight time half the guys aren't producing. We aren't seeing enough training sessions either, something we've had a lot of in some of the previous seasons. I'm surprised at the low quality of the fighters in it this season, surely theses weren't the best fighters out there or is there something else behind it?

I actually think the TUF is just UFC's version of America's Next Top Model and all these other contests that revolve around bitching and gossiping and harsh comments from the judges. The show is more about what goes on in the house and arguments and fall-outs as it is about MMA. I also think there's been so many series now that they're running out of quality coaches of the kind of calibre really needed to produce the 'ultimate fighter'. I really enjoyed the series with GSP & Koscheck as GSP is the perfect fighter to be a coach - successful, fighting champion, honourable and knowledgeable.

talkingpoint wrote:I actually think the TUF is just UFC's version of America's Next Top Model and all these other contests that revolve around bitching and gossiping and harsh comments from the judges. The show is more about what goes on in the house and arguments and fall-outs as it is about MMA.

It certainly seems to be going that way, and with your reference to America's Next Top Model its been no secret that Dana has always wanted 'poster boys' in the UFC! Lets be honest (& I expect some abuse & urine taking for this) Roy Nelson aside there's been no shortage of good looking guys, all pumped up with waxed down bodies, funky haircuts & tattoo's! Almost seems the way you look is just as important in the selection. Also the 'right (wrong) personality' seems important, just look at who has been getting the most house coverage, is it any of the quiet guys?


I also think there's been so many series now that they're running out of quality coaches of the kind of calibre really needed to produce the 'ultimate fighter'. I really enjoyed the series with GSP & Koscheck as GSP is the perfect fighter to be a coach - successful, fighting champion, honourable and knowledgeable.

[b]

That shouldn't really be the case really seeing as the UFC is supposedly getting bigger, buying out rival promotions & incorparating their top fighters into the UFC but you could be right. I suppose they also look at 2 potential coaches who will then fight each other so makes it a little harder. Interestingly I was watching a couple of Bloodstain lanes recent videos on Youtube last night & he was commenting that he felt the UFC was messing up MMA, marginalising it & that there weren't so many top fighters coming through anymore, title fights were getting recycled, a lot of the top fighters fighting tomato cans. He also responded to an old Joe Rogan interview where he's argueing with a top boxing promoter saying that boxing was dying that MMA was taking over & that in a couple of years boxing would not have the stars to replace PBF & Manny, & according to BSL, & he made a good case for this, the opposite is actually happening. makes some interesting points that Dana is to blame for this as well as the recent Jones UFC 151(?) cancellation.

I think there are a few problems with the UFC at the minute.

1. They need a ranking system
2. They need to re-evaluate their training regimes to protect fighters against injuries.
3. They need to choose the coaches on TUF more carefully and make the programme more about making the ultimate fighter rather than the shinnanigans of what goes on inside the house.

Imagine a TUF team Jones v Team Silva with the superfight after the series! This would be all kinds of win - ratings, coaching, fans, PPV.

Agree with all of your points especially Jones v Silva etc but instead we have Jones v Sonnen, oh well we can live in hope.

The ranking is a joke at the moment, unofficial & whoever Dana thinks will sell tickets & generally has 3 wins on the trot.

The training regime should be an individual thing & should definitely taper off a couple of weeks out from the fight. Dan Henderson is a very experienced fighter, no need to be training so hard that close to fight night.

I think like you said they are running out of coaches that can potentially make a good fight at the weight at the moment.

Personally I think combining TUF with more 'superfights' is the best way to go. Imagine if Jose Aldo & Frankie Edgar were TUF coaches leading into their superfight! Or even GSP v Condit (I know GSP has been a coach before but hey Bisping has been a coach twice). Then as I said before Jones v Silva. That would really elevate the prestigiousness of TUF and give these superfights so much more marketting and exposure.

Well, I have to agree with Dana.
That first round was the worst i've seen in all the TUF series. very poor.

Also Nelson saying to the remaining fighters whoever picks a number closest to the one i'm thinking gets to fight.
Pretty bad.

this series has been prety poor on the whole.
Like someone has said, there are to many now i think.

I am looking forward to seeing Sonen as coach however.

Well finally a decent fight & like Dana I was surprised how this fight started what with them both having backgrounds in BJJ, finally a stoppage & a bit of biting!

Interesting to see/hear Dana giving them a talking to on the lack of quality in the fights so far, but I understand what Nelson said about winning the overall contest & having to potentially limit the risk of losing or injury we've just seen in the smashes what can happen. I've always had some mixed feelings on the finale & this winner gets a 6 figure salary & contract with the UFC, you can lose your 1st fight but still fight in the finale & get a contract & whose to say if your an exciting fighter you don't actually go on to earn more money.

Again we have another bad display from Lane ok this time it was more alcohol infused & we had his drinking partner kicking off 1st but this really is not good for the sport & i don't think having a lot of booze in the house is a good idea or beneficial to training. They really need to look at these issues for the next series & beyond if the format is to have a future.

Should have kicked lane out.

Seems to be another junie browning, wanting to fight everyone.

Did like hill, but seems a clown.

Good fight and stoppage dispite being bitten.
The coaches chalenge, must have been the most one sided one ever.
Look forward to next week, hope ricin wins, if so evens it out to 4 all.

Unfortunately Lane is 'good viewing' but agree he should be out, Hill was just drunk. How many fights are left? I'm looking forward to seeing Ricci, the guy looks to have good stand up, got into the house on the back of a good ko. He's also very calm & quiet, kind of makes me thinks he's very focused, prepared & confident, a potentially dangerous opponent. I wish Lane had picked him after he said he thought he couldn't take a punch, think he'd have picked him apart.

What was the coaches challenge? I watched the episode on youtube yesterday but it wasn't on there.

Sorry Ricci, bloomin touch screen.

This is the last fight in this round.
Agree Ricci, seems an ok guy.

Coaches challenge was track and field.

Discuss
javelin
shot put
long jump

whoever won each event got a 3m head start in the 400m race.
needless to say Carwin won all 4 events, giving him 12m head start.

when he won the race, Nelson just gave up and walked the rest, leaving his team to get pi$$ed off with him, saying he had no heart and felt thats how is coaching was.

Carwin got £20,000 instead of 10, and his team won £1500.

i knew dana would stich up nelson on the coaches challenge, he would never want nelson to win so was expecting something cardio based but athletics was being abit obvious!!

dana does seem to be sending out mixed signals with the fighters behaviour, one minute he's saying you have to be professional, dedicated and put on good fights but then he will let clowns get away with being d!cks because it makes good telly! the guy who bite him should be kicked out aswell

I think the problem is is that Dana is looking at the viewing figure & unfortunately controversy sells. In previous series we've had some serious rivalry between the coaches & the fight has meant something, where as this season there's no real animosity between the two & the fight doesn't really mean a lot. Also apart from the last two the fights have not been great, the guys seem reluctant to take risks or even really fight, where as they seem to want to pick fights in the house & spend a lot of time walking around with their shirts off being macho. Quite a contrast to TUF The Smashes.

Well this weeks fight was a good one, probably the best. I was looking forward to seeing Ricci in action & wanted him to win, which he did, but not before taking some punishment in the 2nd. He seems a well rounded fighter with good stand up/striking, but possibly is a little hesitant & doesn't push it enough. Like the commentators were saying he had Dom hurt in the 1st round & didn't look to finish it and went on to lose the 2nd. Possibly has some stamina issues but then again that could just have been down to his opponent & the grappling.

I hope he goes on to beat Hill who really is just a macho silly billy strutting around with his shirt off. The fact he says he'll knock Ricci out is laughable based on his poor showing in his 1st fight. Ricci should be able to pick the guy apart.

Yeah waters seemed a bit cocky for me.

Glad ricii won to.

My thoughts on hill are up and down.
He was a bit stunned when Nelson said that ricii had called him out. He certainly felt betrayed.
Personally as it was all tied, I would have liked to see the 4 car win guys against the 4 Nelson guys.

Some good quarters there to look forward to.

Anybody watch it last night? I forgot to record it.

have to say the smashes has been a miles better series than this one, nearly all the fights have been terrible this series. think were seeing abit to much of the american wrestlers come out and lay and pray. give me a brazilain or brit anyday

think thier scraping the barrel abit now with the talent pool in the usa, next one might be worth having a international one like they did in prizefighter, where you get the bes couple of brit/brazilain/american/candian etc

Yeah not bad idea.

So the final is ricii vs Colton.

Would like to see ricii win.

Pretty poor series overall.

Also Michael hill has to be one of the worst fighters ever.
All talk and no show.

compelling and rich wrote:have to say the smashes has been a miles better series than this one, nearly all the fights have been terrible this series. think were seeing abit to much of the american wrestlers come out and lay and pray. give me a brazilain or brit anyday

think thier scraping the barrel abit now with the talent pool in the usa, next one might be worth having a international one like they did in prizefighter, where you get the bes couple of brit/brazilain/american/candian etc

I do wonder now if TUF has the same appeal to the up & coming fighter as it did in the early days hence the talent pool that are interested & applying is thinning. Even though the UFC are clearly the biggest organization out there they are paying most fighters, outside the top tier, peanuts. Also 'win the ultimate fighter & get a 6 figure contract with the UFC', ok get beaten in the first round in a decent fight, fight on the finale card & still get a contract! Also the 6 figure contract I think is based on 9 wins over 3 years for about $300,000, not quite as good as it sounds. Also Dana is inconsistent, it used to be 3 losses & your cut, but now it doesn't seem to matter how many losses you have as long as you are entertaining, which other sport or organization rewards losers? Another thing is that it is a tv program which needs to keep up its viewing figures, better advertising revenue, hence we need types of guys who have the nice waxed body with tatoos, muscles & a bad attitude to keep up the image that they seem to want, rather than decent fighters, Julian Lane & Michael Hill were they really the best out there? All mouth no action but had the right look. I think they need to look at a few things & try and focus on the training & fights rather than drunken meathead behaviour. An international series would be good.

that meathead mentality will never really die because it's said behaviour that creates drama in the house, which makes for good reality tv. It's all a sham. The inconsistencies and lack of incentive of actually winning the series also contribute to poorer quality. Personally I think TUF has run its course. Keep TUF for foreign countries such as the Smashes and Brazil but the UFC need something new and innovative for its native American market.