British & Irish Cup thread

[Morgannwg]

Thought we could get a thread on this going where fans could post in news, results and any other updates. From a Welsh perspective Pool 2 looks winable for Bedwas and Pool 6 winable for Llanelli. I know little about the English and Irish teams. The fixtures are as follows:

Pool 1: Cardiff, Bridgend, Bristol, Ulster

Pool 2: Bedford, Bedwas, Stirling County, Neath

Pool 3: Carmarthen Quins, Dundee HSFP, Cornish Pirates, Swansea

Pool 4: Connacht, Cross Keys, Newport, Newcastle

Pool 5: Jersey, Pontypridd, Leinster, Leeds

Pool 6: Gala, Llanelli, London Scottish, Moseley

Pool 7: Aberavon, Munster, Plymouth, Rotherham

Pool 8: Doncaster, Llandovery, Melrose, Nottingham

ROUND ONE
13 October 2012

Pool 1

Cardiff 14 v 23 Bristol (14:30 BST)

Ulster Ravens 49 v 19 Bridgend Ravens (14:30 BST)

Pool 2

Bedwas 23 v 48 Bedford Blues (14:30 BST)

Stirling County 40 v 25 Neath (15:00 BST)

Pool 3

Swansea 43 v 17 Dundee HSFP (14:30 BST)

Cornish Pirates 44 v 32 Carmarthen Quins (15:00 BST)

Pool 4

Newport 18 v 14 Connacht Eagles (14:30 BST)

Newcastle Falcons 52 v 5 Cross Keys (15:00 BST)

Pool 5

Jersey 20 v 20 Pontypridd (15:00 BST)

Leinster A 47 v 18 Leeds Carnegie (19:00 BST)

Pool 6

Gala 27 v 23 London Scottish (14:30 BST)

Moseley 36 v 26 Llanelli (15:00 BST)

Pool 7

Aberavon 21 v 25 Rotherham (14:30 BST)

Plymouth Albion 22 v 26 Munster A (15:00 BST)

Pool 8

Doncaster 29 v 30 Melrose (14:30 BST)

Llandovery 28 v 21 Nottingham (15:00 BST)

ROUND TWO

19 October 2012
Pool 3

Carmarthen Quins 41 v 17 Swansea (19:15 BST)

Pool 4

Connacht Eagles 3 v 34 Newcastle Falcons (19:45 BST)

Pool 8

Nottingham 13 v 27 Doncaster (19:45 BST)

20 October 2012
Pool 1

Bridgend Ravens 25 v 7 Cardiff (14:30 BST)

Pool 2

Neath 45 v 27 Bedwas (TBC)

Bedford Blues 87 v 10 Stirling County (15:00 BST)

Pool 3

Dundee HSFP 6 v 32 Cornish Pirates (15:00 BST)

Pool 4

Cross Keys 20 v 24 Newport (14:30 BST)

Pool 5

Pontypridd 25 v 23 Leinster A (14:00 BST)

Pool 6

London Scottish 37 v 41 Moseley (15:00 BST)

Llanelli 38 v 28 Gala (16:30 BST)

Pool 7

Munster A 19 v 11 Aberavon (13:00 BST)

Rotherham 59 v 26 Plymouth Albion (15:00 BST)

Pool 8

Melrose 14 v 29 Llandovery (14:00 BST)

21 October 2012
Pool 1

Bristol 34 v 28 Ulster Ravens (15:00 BST)

Pool 5

Leeds Carnegie 27 v 33 Jersey (15:00 BST)

ROUND THREE

7 December 2012
Pool 8

Nottingham v Melrose (19:45 GMT)

8 December 2012
Pool 1

Bridgend Ravens v Bristol (14:30 GMT)

Ulster Ravens v Cardiff (TBC)

Pool 2

Neath v Bedford Blues (14:30 GMT)

Stirling County v Bedwas (15:00 GMT)

Pool 3

Carmarthen Quins v Dundee HSFP (14:30 GMT)

Pool 4

Cross Keys v Connacht Eagles (14:30 GMT)

Newport v Newcastle Falcons (14:30 GMT)

Pool 5

Jersey v Leinster A (15:00 GMT)

Pool 6

Gala v Moseley (15:00 GMT)

London Scottish v Llanelli (TBC)

Pool 7

Rotherham v Munster A (14:00 GMT)

Aberavon v Plymouth Albion (14:30 GMT)

Pool 8

Llandovery v Doncaster (15:00 GMT)

9 December 2012
Pool 3

Cornish Pirates v Swansea (14:00 GMT)

Pool 5

Leeds Carnegie v Pontypridd (15:00 GMT)

ROUND FOUR

14 December 2012

Pool 1

Bristol v Bridgend Ravens (19:45 GMT)

Pool 7

Munster A v Rotherham (19:00 GMT)

Plymouth Albion v Aberavon (19:45 GMT)

15 December 2012

Pool 1
Cardiff v Ulster Ravens (14:30 GMT)

Pool 2

Bedwas v Stirling County (14:30 GMT)

Bedford Blues v Neath (15:00 GMT)

Pool 3

Dundee HSFP v Carmarthen Quins (14:00 GMT)

Pool 4

Connacht Eagles v Cross Keys (14:30 GMT)

Pool 5

Pontypridd v Leeds Carnegie (14:30 GMT)

Pool 6

Llanelli v London Scottish (14:30 GMT)

Moseley v Gala (15:00 GMT)

Pool 8

Melrose v Nottingham Greenyards (13:45 GMT)

Doncaster v Llandovery (14:30 GMT)

16 December 2012
Pool 3

Swansea v Cornish Pirates (TBC)

Pool 4

Newcastle Falcons v Newport (15:00 GMT)

Pool 5

Leinster A v Jersey (14:30 GMT)

ROUND FIVE

11 January 2013
Pool 1

Ulster Ravens v Bristol (19:30 GMT)

Pool 6

Moseley v London Scottish (19:45 GMT)

12 January 201 3

Pool 1

Cardiff v Bridgend Ravens (14:30 GMT)

Pool 2

Stirling County v Bedford Blues (14:00 GMT)

Bedwas v Neath (14:30 GMT)

Pool 3

Swansea v Carmarthen Quins (14:30 GMT)

Pool 4

Newport v Cross Keys (14:30 GMT)

Newcastle Falcons v Connacht Eagles (15:00 GMT)

Pool 5

Leinster A v Pontypridd (TBC)

Jersey v Leeds Carnegie (15:00 GMT)

Pool 6

Gala v Llanelli (15:00 GMT)

Pool 7

Aberavon v Munster A (14:30 GMT)

Plymouth Albion v Rotherham (15:00 GMT)

Pool 8

Doncaster v Nottingham (14:30 GMT)

Llandovery v Melrose (15:00 GMT)

13 January 2013
Pool 3

Cornish Pirates v Dundee HSFP (14:00 GMT)

ROUND SIX

18 January 2013
Pool 7

Munster A v Plymouth Albion (19:00 GMT)

19 January 201 3

Pool 1

Bridgend Ravens v Ulster Ravens (14:30 GNT)

Pool 2

Neath v Stirling County (14:30 GMT)

Bedford Blues v Bedwas (15:00 GMT)

Pool 3

Dundee HSFP v Swansea (14:00 GMT)

Carmarthen Quins v Cornish Pirates (14:30 GMT)

Pool 4

Connacht Eagles v Newport (14:00 GMT)

Cross Keys v Newcastle Falcons (14:00 GMT)

Pool 5

Leeds Carnegie v Leinster A (14:00 GMT)

Pontypridd v Jersey (14:30 GMT)

Pool 6

Llanelli v Moseley (14:30 GMT)

London Scottish v Gala (15:00 GMT)

Pool 7

Rotherham v Aberavon (14:00 GMT)

Pool 8

Melrose v Doncaster (14:00 GMT)

Nottingham v Llandovery (14:00 GMT)

20 January 201 3

Pool 1

Bristol v Cardiff (15:00 GMT)

5-7 April 2013 :

Quarter finals

26-28 April 2013:
Semi finals

17 May 2013:
Final

Rules:

* Top team in each pool progress to knockout stage

Please note: Fixtures are subject to change. Morgannwg is not responsible for any changes that may be made

[maestegmafia]

This is a wonderful competition, not sure Cross Keys are as good as they were last year, but there are plenty of talented lads out there for this.

I am surprised that this competition doesn't seem to grab any interest for the Irish, scots and English?

[LeinsterFan4life]

This is a wonderful competition, not sure Cross Keys are as good as they were last year, but there are plenty of talented lads out there for this.

I am surprised that this competition doesn't seem to grab any interest for the Irish, scots and English?

There is irish interest for this competition. Last year the game between leinster A and munster A got a crowd of over 2000. I always keep up to date on how leinster A are doing.

[maestegmafia]

That's good to hear.

Those quarters lead to a good final, munst too strong for cross keys who were the form welsh premiership side last year

[Morgannwg]

Oh and I forgot to mention Llandovery. They should cruise that 8th pool. Can anyone get access to live scores?

[LeinsterFan4life]

Newcastle are the danger team this year. They are the team i would fear the most in the comp

[Morgannwg]

Yes, them Bristol and Pirates are the ones from England who can do well. It's just whether they'll take the competition seriously beyond the opening rounds.

[Morgannwg]

Gala

27 - 23
(10 - 20)

London Scottish





Newcastle

52 - 5
(24 - 0)

Cross Keys



Stirling County

40 - 25
(23 - 6)

Neath

[LeinsterFan4life]

Can anyone update the scores?

[Morgannwg]

I'll edit them into the article once I have time. Perhaps tomorrow.

[LeinsterFan4life]

I'll edit them into the article once I have time. Perhaps tomorrow.

Ok thanks.

[LondonTiger]

British & Irish Cup
Bedwas 23-48 Bedford
Cardiff 14-23 Bristol
Gala 27-23 London Scottish
Jersey 20-20 Pontypridd
Moseley 36-26 Llanelli
Newcastle 52-5 Cross Keys
Newport 18-14 Connacht
Stirling County 40-25 Neath
Swansea 43-17 Dundee High
Ulster 49-19 Bridgend



You never realy know how strong the sides put out are but not a surprise that Newcastle and Bedford had hefty wins. These two are quite comfortably the best two teams in the Championship.

[Morgannwg]

I did see the scores on the BBC page. Quite surprised that Bedford, Mosely have improved a lot. I was completey wrong to expect better from Bedwas. I guess it's up to the form team Llandovery to do well in this competition.

The Bridgend, Keys, Newport and Neath scores do not come as a shock to me either. The Swansea result does. Where is your source for your results by the way LT?

[aitchw]

Leinster 47 Carnegie 18

Comfortable win for the Irish

[LeinsterFan4life]

Leinster 47 Carnegie 18

Comfortable win for the Irish

Thats a good win for the youngsters. I wonder how denton got on against his old club.

[Pat_Mustard]

British & Irish Cup
Bedwas 23-48 Bedford
Cardiff 14-23 Bristol
Gala 27-23 London Scottish
Jersey 20-20 Pontypridd
Moseley 36-26 Llanelli
Newcastle 52-5 Cross Keys
Newport 18-14 Connacht
Stirling County 40-25 Neath
Swansea 43-17 Dundee High
Ulster 49-19 Bridgend

results on the BBC incomplete for some reason, there was also

Aberavon 21-25 Rotherham Titan
Doncaster Knights 29-30 Melrose
Plymouth Albion 22-26 Munster
Llandovery 28-21 Nottingham
Leinster 47-18 Leeds Carnegie

[neilthom7]

Ulster Ravens team was mostly youth except Niall O'Connor who played most of the game and Roger Wilson who played 40 minutes returning from injury with a look at getting him someway fit for the Heineken game v Glasgow. Decent support there including a number of the full Ulster players to support the kids.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/newsroom/10485.php

Was a good antidote to the Exeter game. Got 3 free pints too.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

British & Irish Cup
Bedwas 23-48 Bedford
Cardiff 14-23 Bristol
Gala 27-23 London Scottish
Jersey 20-20 Pontypridd
Moseley 36-26 Llanelli
Newcastle 52-5 Cross Keys
Newport 18-14 Connacht
Stirling County 40-25 Neath
Swansea 43-17 Dundee High
Ulster 49-19 Bridgend

results on the BBC incomplete for some reason, there was also

Aberavon 21-25 Rotherham Titan
Doncaster Knights 29-30 Melrose
Plymouth Albion 22-26 Munster
Llandovery 28-21 Nottingham
Leinster 47-18 Leeds Carnegie

must be another one too. there should be 16 games with 32 teams.

[LeinsterFan4life]

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/newsroom/10485.php

Was a good antidote to the Exeter game. Got 3 free pints too.

Did many turn up to the game? Looks like hudson played well

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Cornish Pirates, 44 - 32, Carmarthen Quins

That is the missing one. Played today at 3.

On the Donnybrook game. All the crowd were in the stand as it rained. Not a bad attendance. I did not take too much notice, but there seemed to be a decent bit of coverage on the seats.

[Morgannwg]

I've updated the scores. Thanks for posting them. Updates here and there much appreciated, as this is what the thread is for .

Looks like a lot of rugby was played in the opening round, with a definite improvement from the English championship teams in this competition compared to previous seasons.

[George Carlin]

Yes, thanks for posting these.

Am always interested to see the composition of these teams - anyone know the actual rules of which players are eligible to compete? I note from Geordie's Falcons thread that they do seem to have a very strong team on the park each time.

Similarly, I note that the very good Scottish club wins over the past week were heavily supported by Elite Development Players from the Scottish pro clubs - for example:

1. Melrose beating Doncaster 30-29

Glasgow's EDP players Fraser Thompson and centre Bruce Dick both played, with Dick scoring a crucial try.

2. Stirling County beating Neath 40-25

Glasgow's Sean Kennedy, Troy Nathan and Adam Ashe were all playing - Kennedy getting two scores.

3. Gala beating London Scottish 27-23

Glasgow centre Dave McCall played and was pretty influential in midfield.

Munster's cup winning 'A' side from last year were pretty starry too as I recall. Or perhaps that's just bitterness about how good they were.

[HERSH]

Not this shower again?

[Kingshu]

3 provinicial wins again, this time Connacht Eagles, letting us down. Expect the Provinicial 'A' teams to be strong again.

Do you think Scotland and Wales should enter regional 'A' teams also?

[Dubbelyew L Overate]

3 provinicial wins again, this time Connacht Eagles, letting us down. Expect the Provinicial 'A' teams to be strong again.

Do you think Scotland and Wales should enter regional 'A' teams also?

No, it's a club competition - The Irish should enter clubs.

[Kingshu]

It's a second tier competition, and Irish decided that the 'A' sides are their second tier, just like Wales have thier under 21 as thier second tier internationally, rather than an 'A' team.

For player development it makes much more sense to enter 'A' teams, Irish club teams would not be at a competative level they couldn't afford the travel involved either.

For Player developemnt Scotland should look at entering 2 'A' teams also.

[Dubbelyew L Overate]

Does every competition need to be about player development?

Because Ireland decided that their 2nd tier are their provincial A teams doesn't make that decision right, nor reduce the pollution of the ethos of a club competition.

Perhaps some competitions can be reserved for club development - teammates striving to be the best they can collectively, testing themselves against different opposition?

None of the participants can afford the travel costs, they're all subsidised by their unions in one way or another.

The Scots and Welsh draft in spare Regional players into the club squads to reinforce them in varying degrees, and the English have Prem academy players dual-registered, although tend to heavily rotate their squads for this competition. Those reinforcements also pollute the ethos.

[George Carlin]

I suppose it depends how your domestic feeder system works.

In Scotland, there is still a strong regional club scene, especially in the Borders, and players there commonly get poached and offered contracts by one of the two pro teams if they're good. The trade-off for that inconvenience is the annual club draft where all pro team players get allocated to specific clubs during the season to make them available for selection by that club every weekend where they aren't chosen for the pro XXII. It's a rotating draft and clubs get to choose whom they want.

This means that the pro players are spread over a number of clubs and are not guaranteed to play at all, which I believe is still within the spirit of the competition. Scottish pro franchises only get fed from regional league clubs - they don't have 'academies' in the sense that Jeff clubs do.

[Kingshu]

For club development we have the Ulster Bank All-Ireland League, Clubs play in an All Irland league, any thing above that is provincial.

With Wales being regional, it should be the same, as with Italy now,

What I don't understand is how Italy get to enter Super 10 clubs into the Almin, and Wales don't get to enter Welsh prem teams?

To be clear, when you go regional/provinicial, your clubs become the domestic competition, and have no place outside of that. Hence why Wales don't enter Clubs in the Almin as there is a chance that a feeder club could meet its region (Cardiff Blues v Cardiff RFC?), Irish clubs have no place outside Ireland.

I think that it should be resolved soon about Italy entering Super 10 teams into the Almin.

Ps just to be clear, about the Provinces as you seam to maybe have a problem with them in Europe, the Clubs always feed the Provinces, and the highest level of Rugby in Ireland was the inter-Provinical tourament. When the H-cup was set up we entered our highest level teams into it.

[Dubbelyew L Overate]

My contention is that the B&I Cup is not above AIL, it's parallel to it, as it is with England, Scotland and Wales' domestic leagues. Hence, it's not provincial/regional, it's club - a concept which the Welsh and Scots seem to be able to embrace notwithstanding their regional pro setups.

It's not a European competition as such, it's just an RFU club competition that happens to be competed for across borders by invitation. There is no route to the Tier 1 European competitions, so there is no opportunity for conflict.

The Amlin and S10 situation is indeed an anachronism, amongst several under the aegis of ERC.

[LordDowlais]

My contention is that the B&I Cup is not above AIL, it's parallel to it, as it is with England, Scotland and Wales' domestic leagues. Hence, it's not provincial/regional, it's club - a concept which the Welsh and Scots seem to be able to embrace notwithstanding their regional pro setups.

It's not a European competition as such, it's just an RFU club competition that happens to be competed for across borders by invitation. There is no route to the Tier 1 European competitions, so there is no opportunity for conflict.

The Amlin and S10 situation is indeed an anachronism, amongst several under the aegis of ERC.

I remember when Neath were banging their drum about going into the Amlin, but because Wales have only four slots for Europe they were not allowed, how many Italian "clubs" are in the Amlin ?

[George Carlin]

For club development we have the Ulster Bank All-Ireland League, Clubs play in an All Irland league, any thing above that is provincial.

With Wales being regional, it should be the same, as with Italy now,

What I don't understand is how Italy get to enter Super 10 clubs into the Almin, and Wales don't get to enter Welsh prem teams?

To be clear, when you go regional/provinicial, your clubs become the domestic competition, and have no place outside of that. Hence why Wales don't enter Clubs in the Almin as there is a chance that a feeder club could meet its region (Cardiff Blues v Cardiff RFC?), Irish clubs have no place outside Ireland.

I think that it should be resolved soon about Italy entering Super 10 teams into the Almin.

Ps just to be clear, about the Provinces as you seam to maybe have a problem with them in Europe, the Clubs always feed the Provinces, and the highest level of Rugby in Ireland was the inter-Provinical tourament. When the H-cup was set up we entered our highest level teams into it.

Have no problem whatsoever with the provinces in Europe Kingshu if that was directed to me.

It's up to each union to decide how they want to best bring on their young players.

[Kingshu]

No, its only Dubbelyew L Overate seams to have an Issue with the Provinces.

LordDowlais FIR have 6 teams in Europe.
Terviso and Zebre in H-cup
Calvisano, Rovigo, Cavalieri Prato and Mogliano in Almin.

I think ERC already have warned Italy about this last year, but no solution yet.

Don't know how Scotalnd only get to enter 2 in Europe and Italy 6. When Italy entered 2 teams in Pro 12 the number of teams and possible restructre of Almin should have taken place.

[HammerofThunor]

Are the PRO12 Italian teams regional though? I thought they were super clubs. I know a few Italian clubs combined with Viadana to form Aironi but I thought it was only Viadana that was in the S10. Zebre are a little different as they're owned by the FIR. I might have it wrong.

[neilthom7]

Here's a question for you the English clubs in the championship would be professional would they not? No club in the AIB is professional clearly you have some sort of problem with the way Ireland develops it's players or whatever and if RFU don't like it and it is a RFU competition then they would stop them from playing. You seem to be the only person with a problem with the competition. Accept it for what it is a decent competition with some great young talent.

[Dubbelyew L Overate]

Here's a question for you the English clubs in the championship would be professional would they not? No club in the AIB is professional clearly you have some sort of problem with the way Ireland develops it's players or whatever and if RFU don't like it and it is a RFU competition then they would stop them from playing. You seem to be the only person with a problem with the competition. Accept it for what it is a decent competition with some great young talent.

Go onto the fora for English Championship clubs and you will find that I am far from alone - it is a deeply unloved competition, the brainchild of the outstanding idiot at the RFU (and to be outstanding in the field of idiocy amongst so much competition at the RFU is truly impressive).

It is not a decent competition at all, pitting teams of different abilities, nature and intent against each other. Largely pro English, vs semi-pro Welsh, vs amateur Scots, vs variable Irish. High and unsustainable travel costs, no significant prizes, poor gates and little worth, continually changing year by year in its short existence.

I have no problem with the Irish Provinces in Europe, indeed there is much to be admired in the Irish setup. I do have a problem with provincial A teams in a club competition, but that is only one symptom of the greater problems that I have with the B&I Cup.

[Geordie]

Well we put a mixed team out...senior players who havent maybe had much gametime this season yet...and some of the real quality academy players...so i think that shows how Deano views the competition...but dont forget his priority this season is simply promotion...so he wont be risking his first choicers.

But if the teams all use it like that mixing senior players with some cracking academy players then what harm is it doing? I think its good.

[Dubbelyew L Overate]

Well we put a mixed team out...senior players who havent maybe had much gametime this season yet...and some of the real quality academy players...so i think that shows how Deano views the competition...but dont forget his priority this season is simply promotion...so he wont be risking his first choicers.

But if the teams all use it like that mixing senior players with some cracking academy players then what harm is it doing? I think its good.

How many Championship clubs can afford an Academy? How many can afford a squad beyond the bare minimum? This is the first season that travel costs have (minimally) been subsidised - how many clubs can afford an awayday beyond travelodge accommodation? How many clubs look at the small gate income from B&I cup and think "if only PRL clubs would deign to play us in a cup competition"? How many clubs think "why the f**k have RFU foisted this loss-making competition on us, and can't even be a**sed to find a title sponsor or any kind of commercial income to mitigate our losses?"

[Morgannwg]

I think the Provincial A teams are fully professional. Ireland's Provincial first teams also play in a cup competition you know (The Heineken Cup).

[neilthom7]

Most of the guys in the Irish teams are academy players so they would be somewhat professional yes although it isn't unheard of for them to take AIB players to these games to try them out a bit. It depends how you look at it, I see it as a usefull tool to help develop some young Ulster players

[Kingshu]

So Dubbelyew L Overate, it seams that you don't like the Province 'A' teams being entered, as they are mostly professional, same as English Championship sides, while the others are semi Pro, you clearly don't like them because they can rival the English teams, while the others are at a disadvanage to the English.

2) it the whole competation that you don't like. You want an English Cup between Championship sides and Aviva sides, with this not happening is the BandI cup not a worthy replacement?

[Geordie]

Well we put a mixed team out...senior players who havent maybe had much gametime this season yet...and some of the real quality academy players...so i think that shows how Deano views the competition...but dont forget his priority this season is simply promotion...so he wont be risking his first choicers.

But if the teams all use it like that mixing senior players with some cracking academy players then what harm is it doing? I think its good.

How many Championship clubs can afford an Academy? How many can afford a squad beyond the bare minimum? This is the first season that travel costs have (minimally) been subsidised - how many clubs can afford an awayday beyond travelodge accommodation? How many clubs look at the small gate income from B&I cup and think "if only PRL clubs would deign to play us in a cup competition"? How many clubs think "why the f**k have RFU foisted this loss-making competition on us, and can't even be a**sed to find a title sponsor or any kind of commercial income to mitigate our losses?"

even my club Percy Park here in North Shields has a second, third and fourth team...a Colts team and all the age groups....so im afraid that is an arguement i just cant listen to.

[Guest]

There should definitely be a replacement for the old Pilkington/Courage Cups and ditch both the LV and B&I cups to create a FA cup style competition (in the latter stages) and perhaps pools for those to get to a third round type round with entry of AP clubs.

I would go to that - as a ST holder I can't be bothered with the LV....

[Morgannwg]

Well we put a mixed team out...senior players who havent maybe had much gametime this season yet...and some of the real quality academy players...so i think that shows how Deano views the competition...but dont forget his priority this season is simply promotion...so he wont be risking his first choicers.

But if the teams all use it like that mixing senior players with some cracking academy players then what harm is it doing? I think its good.

How many Championship clubs can afford an Academy? How many can afford a squad beyond the bare minimum? This is the first season that travel costs have (minimally) been subsidised - how many clubs can afford an awayday beyond travelodge accommodation? How many clubs look at the small gate income from B&I cup and think "if only PRL clubs would deign to play us in a cup competition"? How many clubs think "why the f**k have RFU foisted this loss-making competition on us, and can't even be a**sed to find a title sponsor or any kind of commercial income to mitigate our losses?"

even my club Percy Park here in North Shields has a second, third and fourth team...a Colts team and all the age groups....so im afraid that is an arguement i just cant listen to.

Wow. Teams in Newport barely got two teams (can only think of three that have) and struggle to get any of the age groups playing.

[Kingshu]

Most clubs in Ireland would go as far as having a thirds team, and Rascal rugby, 4th and 5ths is Junior rugby, under 13/15/17/19 teams as well.

Take Ballymena RFC as an Example.
http://www.ballymenarfc.com/

If a team in Irish division 1B can keep this sort of acamady, a fully professional English club should be able to do better.

Maybe with Professionalism to much is geared towards the first team, and a balance needs to be restruck.

[Morgannwg]

Newcastle have had a good academy for years as far as I know.

[Geordie]

Morgan i would actually put Newcastle as one of the best academys in Britain...it has just bee underused / mismanaged etc.

However Deano is seriously using it now...people will see just what it can produce.

[Sin é]

B&I Cup Highlights - Plymouth Albion v Munster A

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/matchdaytv/

[Pat_Mustard]

Gala - London Scottish Highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlyitfl5qHY

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