Englands AI Team Based on European 1st Round

First topic message reminder :

With no preamble:

1. Marler
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Botha
6. Johnson
7. Robshaw
8. Easter
9. Care
10. Botica
11. Monye
12. Twelvetrees
13. Tomkins
14. Ashton
15. Arscott

So there we go, my Heineken Cup England team based on the weekends games.

Hood83 wrote:We do need a player who is regularly getting over the gainline, it might be Garvey, it might be Fearns or Vunipola in the back-row, but it won't be Palmer or Lawes. We need to find a player who can offer that sooner rather than later.

I don't agree that Garvey is a bigger carrier than Lawes, and the stats would seem to concur. So far this season Garvey had made 26 metres in 21 carries and Lawes has made 33 metres in 16 carries.

niwatts wrote:

Hood83 wrote:We do need a player who is regularly getting over the gainline, it might be Garvey, it might be Fearns or Vunipola in the back-row, but it won't be Palmer or Lawes. We need to find a player who can offer that sooner rather than later.

I don't agree that Garvey is a bigger carrier than Lawes, and the stats would seem to concur. So far this season Garvey had made 26 metres in 21 carries and Lawes has made 33 metres in 16 carries.

Damn you and your statistics and facts! I think Garvey is a better carrier in traffic. He hasn't looked great this season but then nor have LI. He did get MOTM recently though and looked to be getting through a lot of work. His carrying looked below par but still, in my opinion, better than Lawes, who still carries far too upright.

I've liked what I've seen from Garvey in the past, he's a gritty lock that brings nice attributes to the pack, I just don't think it's useful to attribute players with aspects of play they don't noticeably regularly show, it sets them up for a fall. Far better to concentrate on what he more demonstrably brings.

Hard carrying is essential from the pack....
Is Lawes carrying top class...no. He does carry...and certainly makes ground....but not like an Alberts or such...
Lawes does offer so much every where else however....which is why he must start. And his lineout is improving beyond question....though not a lineout leader...
The question then however is how else do you set up your pack.

The thing to realise is that carrying and balance can be generated by a good, winning team.
It's a case of making the team into a winning team in the first place.

If you look around the top nations in the world and look at their partnerships now (Locks, half backs, centres etc) everyone will agree that there is good 'balance'.
However, a lot of the time, I doubt that balance has been there from the start.

Nonu adds good balance to the NZ midfield, but he's a much more accomplished player than he was when he first broke into the team.
The difference is that top quality players can alter their style slightly to accomodate the team with losing their key skills.

Unfortunately, this generally only comes with game time together, and is a lot easier to develop if you're already playing in a good, winning team.

Lawes and Launchbury could be a 2nd row pairing with great balance in time, if they play together enough.
However, if they only get a few games here and there together, you'll probably find that they struggle to hit it off, and end up trying to work indivudally, rather than as a unit.

Bit unfair to compare lawes carrying to alberts.

Yes it was...but i just used that to highlight in the extreme what i mean...the difference between carriers and the worlds best carriers....

Ok,not looking to p155 you off,just saying compare him to other 4's.

You didnt p me off dont worry

Into the AI squad ?

"Flanker Steffon Armitage's form justifies a place in head coach Stuart Lancaster's England squad, according to Toulon team-mate Jonny Wilkinson. "

Alas it's too late for Armitage I feel. What we need to be asking is not whether Armitage should be in the squad, but what back-rower deserves to be kicked out as a result?

Frankly only Dowson merits demotion in my view and i'd be calling Haskell up in his place straight away. Robshaw has done superbly, Wood will be a truly top back-rower, Croft is utterly unique. Waldrom and Morgan certainly need development, but as Steffon is not an 8 I don't think you can consider them. Fearns is the other player i'd call up ahead of him.

Couldn't agree more with that.If he wanted to play for England he would come back to the jeff.I think he has the hump over the way he was bombed out for hendre fourie.well you would be wouldn't you!!!

So, I reckon SL will be loking to play a side in the second test along the lines of:

Goode, Ashton, JJ, Barritt, Tuilagi, Flood, Care, Marler, Hartley, Cole, Lawes, Palmer/Parling, Johnson, Robshaw, Morgan.

Tuilagi and JJ may swap.

Chjw131 wrote:Alas it's too late for Armitage I feel. What we need to be asking is not whether Armitage should be in the squad, but what back-rower deserves to be kicked out as a result?

Frankly only Dowson merits demotion in my view and i'd be calling Haskell up in his place straight away. Robshaw has done superbly, Wood will be a truly top back-rower, Croft is utterly unique. Waldrom and Morgan certainly need development, but as Steffon is not an 8 I don't think you can consider them. Fearns is the other player i'd call up ahead of him.

Waldrom is beyond development...hes nearly 30 isnt he....

Fearns MUST be brought in to the squad....and at least make the bench.