Cotto vs margarito: loaded or not?

Was watching the second fight between these two and was so glad Cotto won. Have always liked his style, his fast hands, good combinations and great footwork. Was so disappointing when the seemly invincible margarito walked him down broke him in their first fight . The next fight with Mosley we all know what happened. I have to ask the question, do you believe he had loaded gloves against cotto the first time. I have seen loads of arguments on this before, arguing for and against. Two things stand out. I know cotto always marks up but his face seemed a complete mess by the time of his stoppage in the 11th. Did loaded gloves do that?

Second, margarito was prepared to in his first defence use loaded gloves, I'm going to guess he would be prepared to use them to to win the title. He has not had the same destructive power and ability to grind down and break opponents since the cotto win. Is this Father Time or the extra edge he had from his special gloves gone? The pathetic excuse that he don't know what his trainer was doing does not fit for me. I believe he should have been banned for life. Using performance enhancing drugs is one thing but loaded gloves takes cheating to a new level.

I know we will never prove otherwise but I believe if he was prepared to do it once I'm sure he had done it before. Maybe I'm being unfair it's just my humble opinion, so gentlemen did margarito have loaded gloves for his first fight with cotto? Maybe even before then, or is he a victim of his trainers malevolent schemes just for the Mosley fight?

One idea I must quibble with, first of all, is that the state of Cotto's face serves as some kind of proof that Margarito's gloves were loaded. Cotto spent the second half of that fight repeatedly blocking punches with his face for starters, and moreover, his face was similarly marked, bruised and bloody after the mauling he took against Manny, but I'm pretty sure Manny's gloves weren't loaded.

For me, it just comes down to common sense. Lest we forget, before Margarito's back to back fights with Cotto and Mosley, there had already been a fight between Miguel and Shane, which Miguel won in late 2007. If Margarito and his team were fully intending to use illegal wraps for a fight with Mosley (like you, I find the idea that Margarito had no knowledge of the wraps that were found the night of the Mosley bout laughable to say the least), then it seems a relatively safe bet that they'd have been willing to use them against a man who'd already beaten Mosley and, at the time of the Margarito-Cotto fight in 2008, commanded a much higher place in everone's pound for pound list than Shane did.

Also, while you can argue that it might be more down to the hammerings which Mosley and Pacquiao gave him as much as anything else, it's hard to ignore the fact that Margarito suddenly looked pretty toothless as a fighter once the scandal had broken. Coincidence? Maybe. But it doesn't help his cause.

In my mind - Yes without a single shred of doubt but in the court of Law its no proof. Its also no coincidence that he lost his own power after being exposed despite Shanes Chin and elusiveness or whatever - Its like he knew it was over - no more knockouts and consequently couldn't muster the will required to grind Mosely down.

I prefer zoo

I think the expression once a cheat always a cheat springs to mind. I'm sure they'd have been doing it for as long as they could get away with it. As soon as it came to light he'd been trying to load his gloves I then doubted every win he'd ever had let alone the Cotto fight.

I am convinced Margarito was loaded in the first fight. Look att he state of Cotto's face compared to other fights. Scumbag Margarito should have been jailed. Only benefit was seeing Mosely rip him to pieces

I am confident the gloves were loaded. When you consider the power margarito seeminlgy had in the Cotto fight, and one or two beforehand, versus the subsequent fights, I think there is a marked difference.

Also, as 8u8Chris05 said, bearing in mind Cotto beat Mosely, and so at the time of the first margarito fight, Cotto was seen as a very big threat, which would suggest Margarito would use any advantage he could get, while in the Mosley fight, I would imagine his camp thought "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", and so used the same wraps again until they were caught.

I seriously doubt Margarito didn't know what was going on, he must have known. Also, in subsequent interviews, especially the HBO "face-off" for the second Cotto fight, he wasn't actually bothered about the scandal, and didn't go out his way to show remorse or sorrow, he didn't seem to care. I think that interview particularly shows you everything you need to know. I for one couldn't be happier that Pac and Cotto re-arranged his face, and that Mosley cracked his chin to start with.

I dont think it had any effect in the sense that Cotto fought the wrong fight. Sean mentions his face. Sorry Cotto bruises up easily. Chris clarified it up. The point is Cotto got hit and hit often in a fight he should have won regardless of the gloves being loaded or not.

azania wrote:I dont think it had any effect in the sense that Cotto fought the wrong fight. Sean mentions his face. Sorry Cotto bruises up easily. Chris clarified it up. The point is Cotto got hit and hit often in a fight he should have won regardless of the gloves being loaded or not.

Seriously? How would you win a fight if every punch you took, on the arms, face or anywhere else hit with ten times the force they usually do? Margarito is already massive at the weight, multiply that by the force of the punches from the loaded gloves and it is probably the equivalent of getting hit by a SMW.

Cotto took a heck of a lot of punches, so it realy isn't a case of "oh his face looked bad so he must have had loaded gloves" The entire second half of the fight he was backed up against the ropes continually geting hit with the right hand. Though even though there's no real evidence, I reckon that he did have loaded gloves, as Chris says, its kinda just common sense.

azania wrote:I dont think it had any effect in the sense that Cotto fought the wrong fight. Sean mentions his face. Sorry Cotto bruises up easily. Chris clarified it up. The point is Cotto got hit and hit often in a fight he should have won regardless of the gloves being loaded or not.

I think he was loaded, and Cotto does puff up, tis true, but I also think he puffed up more in this fight because Margarito was loaded.

azania wrote:I dont think it had any effect in the sense that Cotto fought the wrong fight. Sean mentions his face. Sorry Cotto bruises up easily. Chris clarified it up. The point is Cotto got hit and hit often in a fight he should have won regardless of the gloves being loaded or not.

in one sense i agree Coto most certainly did fight the wrong fight, and you only have to see the rematch as to what he should have done. but, it most certainly did have an effect because Cotto may have actually won the fight if Maragaritos gloves weren't loaded fighting in that manner, but if they were then it gives him a lesserchance of doing so. So it did have an effect on the fight.

If his gloves were loaded, the regularity and force in which he hit Cotto with would have left Cotto more bruised and batter than he was after the fight. Especially as you pointed out that Marg was huge at the weight and Cotto's best punches bounced off him.

Plus his actions immediately after the fight lends me to believe that his gloves were notloaded. He took off the gloves and gave his hand to Cotto to shake and the corner. Would a loaded boxer do that. Perhaps if he thought what was inside the padding was undetectable.

Moreover Cotto would have had someone in the Marg camp when the hands were wrapped.

azania wrote:If his gloves were loaded, the regularity and force in which he hit Cotto with would have left Cotto more bruised and batter than he was after the fight. Especially as you pointed out that Marg was huge at the weight and Cotto's best punches bounced off him.

Plus his actions immediately after the fight lends me to believe that his gloves were notloaded. He took off the gloves and gave his hand to Cotto to shake and the corner. Would a loaded boxer do that. Perhaps if he thought what was inside the padding was undetectable.

Moreover Cotto would have had someone in the Marg camp when the hands were wrapped.

Still think he was loaded.

Seanusarrilius wrote:

azania wrote:I dont think it had any effect in the sense that Cotto fought the wrong fight. Sean mentions his face. Sorry Cotto bruises up easily. Chris clarified it up. The point is Cotto got hit and hit often in a fight he should have won regardless of the gloves being loaded or not.

I think he was loaded, and Cotto does puff up, tis true, but I also think he puffed up more in this fight because Margarito was loaded.

How do you explain his face after Manny. He looked equally bad? Lets not fotget that Manny broke Marg's orbital bone also. Loaded or just a good old ass whooping?

Cottos team didnt have any watch the hands being wrapped.

Seanusarrilius wrote:

azania wrote:If his gloves were loaded, the regularity and force in which he hit Cotto with would have left Cotto more bruised and batter than he was after the fight. Especially as you pointed out that Marg was huge at the weight and Cotto's best punches bounced off him.

Plus his actions immediately after the fight lends me to believe that his gloves were notloaded. He took off the gloves and gave his hand to Cotto to shake and the corner. Would a loaded boxer do that. Perhaps if he thought what was inside the padding was undetectable.

Moreover Cotto would have had someone in the Marg camp when the hands were wrapped.

Still think he was loaded.

Well there you go.

azania wrote:If his gloves were loaded, the regularity and force in which he hit Cotto with would have left Cotto more bruised and batter than he was after the fight. Especially as you pointed out that Marg was huge at the weight and Cotto's best punches bounced off him.

Plus his actions immediately after the fight lends me to believe that his gloves were notloaded. He took off the gloves and gave his hand to Cotto to shake and the corner. Would a loaded boxer do that. Perhaps if he thought what was inside the padding was undetectable.

Moreover Cotto would have had someone in the Marg camp when the hands were wrapped.

First, how do you know it would have left Cotto "more bruised and battered", how many boxers/fights have you seen with loaded gloves? Even pros like Mayweather said they never seen a fighter look like that after a fight, especially in the lower weights.

Second, Margarito ain't exactly the sharpest tool in the box, I doub't he'd think to keep his gloves on. Also, in the build up to the second Cotto fight, Cotto and HBO zoom in on a photo of Margairito after the first fight with his gloves off, there is a strange red tape/gauze on his knuckles, the same thing Naz spotted in the build up to the Mosley fight. So Marg did give himself away after the first fight.

I'd put the opinions/beliefs of Cotto, Maywaether, Mosley, Naz etc etc above yours with all due respect.

NathanDB10 wrote:I am confident the gloves were loaded. When you consider the power margarito seeminlgy had in the Cotto fight, and one or two beforehand, versus the subsequent fights, I think there is a marked difference.

Also, as 8u8Chris05 said, bearing in mind Cotto beat Mosely, and so at the time of the first margarito fight, Cotto was seen as a very big threat, which would suggest Margarito would use any advantage he could get, while in the Mosley fight, I would imagine his camp thought "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", and so used the same wraps again until they were caught.

I seriously doubt Margarito didn't know what was going on, he must have known. Also, in subsequent interviews, especially the HBO "face-off" for the second Cotto fight, he wasn't actually bothered about the scandal, and didn't go out his way to show remorse or sorrow, he didn't seem to care. I think that interview particularly shows you everything you need to know. I for one couldn't be happier that Pac and Cotto re-arranged his face, and that Mosley cracked his chin to start with.

The fight was being sld as good v bad. He played his part perfectly and showing remorse could be seen as a sign of weakness and giving Cotto a mental advantage.

Manny hit Cotto a bazillion times, that's how his face ended up like that. Marg loaded up baby. He hit him a lot int he rematch at 154 too, and didn't do anywhere near as much damage.

Loaded. Like a pistol.

NathanDB10 wrote:

azania wrote:If his gloves were loaded, the regularity and force in which he hit Cotto with would have left Cotto more bruised and batter than he was after the fight. Especially as you pointed out that Marg was huge at the weight and Cotto's best punches bounced off him.

Plus his actions immediately after the fight lends me to believe that his gloves were notloaded. He took off the gloves and gave his hand to Cotto to shake and the corner. Would a loaded boxer do that. Perhaps if he thought what was inside the padding was undetectable.

Moreover Cotto would have had someone in the Marg camp when the hands were wrapped.

First, how do you know it would have left Cotto "more bruised and battered", how many boxers/fights have you seen with loaded gloves? Even pros like Mayweather said they never seen a fighter look like that after a fight, especially in the lower weights.

Second, Margarito ain't exactly the sharpest tool in the box, I doub't he'd think to keep his gloves on. Also, in the build up to the second Cotto fight, Cotto and HBO zoom in on a photo of Margairito after the first fight with his gloves off, there is a strange red tape/gauze on his knuckles, the same thing Naz spotted in the build up to the Mosley fight. So Marg did give himself away after the first fight.

I'd put the opinions/beliefs of Cotto, Maywaether, Mosley, Naz etc etc above yours with all due respect.

Cotto was bruised and batter by a legit Manny Pac. His face was swollen etc. Marg hit him often and with power shots. It stands to reason that his face would swell. Heck, his face swelled up against Paulie. Now a power punching Marg with loaded gloves would have done more damage that Cotto suffered. Marg may be thick or whatever. But if you know you have dodgy wrapping, you do not take your gloves and expose t all. It takes a special type of idiot to do that. Plus it was his cornermen who wrapped the gloves. Surely if they put something inside, they would hardly take the gloves off and risk exposing it.

The red stuff was not the same thing Naz spotted. Naz said he first felt his wraps to he harder that normal. Nothing red was put into it. There was a white plaster of paris strip around a section of the wraps. And it doesn't turn red when you sweat.

Seanusarrilius wrote:Manny hit Cotto a bazillion times, that's how his face ended up like that. Marg loaded up baby. He hit him a lot int he rematch at 154 too, and didn't do anywhere near as much damage.

Loaded. Like a pistol.

And Marg hit him very often also. Paulie made his face swell also. So did Clottey and quite a few others.

azania wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:Manny hit Cotto a bazillion times, that's how his face ended up like that. Marg loaded up baby. He hit him a lot int he rematch at 154 too, and didn't do anywhere near as much damage.

Loaded. Like a pistol.

And Marg hit him very often also. Paulie made his face swell also. So did Clottey and quite a few others.

You're forgetting one fact

Clottey and Pac never got caught with loaded gloves.

Focus on Margarito. Your arguments melts once you start banging on about other fighters.

Loaded. Like a pistol.

1st fight. Cotto's face is destroyed

Next Marg fight he gets caught with dem loaded gloves mon

2nd fight. Cotto no where near as marked, not close.

Now, it may be because Marg hit him less. But Marg was at 154 and he barely scratched Cotto up.

Loaded. Like the golden gun.

Loaded. Like Primal Scream.

Loaded. Like Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits.


Loaded.








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LOADED!!!!!!!!!

Seanusarrilius wrote:

azania wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:Manny hit Cotto a bazillion times, that's how his face ended up like that. Marg loaded up baby. He hit him a lot int he rematch at 154 too, and didn't do anywhere near as much damage.

Loaded. Like a pistol.

And Marg hit him very often also. Paulie made his face swell also. So did Clottey and quite a few others.

You're forgetting one fact

Clottey and Pac never got caught with loaded gloves.

Focus on Margarito. Your arguments melts once you start banging on about other fighters.

Loaded. Like a pistol.

1st fight. Cotto's face is destroyed

Next Marg fight he gets caught with dem loaded gloves mon

2nd fight. Cotto no where near as marked, not close.

Now, it may be because Marg hit him less. But Marg was at 154 and he barely scratched Cotto up.

Loaded. Like the golden gun.

Loaded. Like Primal Scream.

Loaded. Like Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits.


Loaded.








L
O
A
D
E
D




LOADED!!!!!!!!!

Get over yourself sean. If you want to use Cotto's face as evidence of loaded gloves, you cannot disqualify me from using other fighters who have fought Cotto and damaged his face. Fact is his face swells easily as Chris mentioned above. That is not evidence of loaded gloves. All you have are beliefs and nothig more.

For the record I do not know one way or another if the gloves were loaded. I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt as I reckon if they were loaded Cotto's face would have been a bigger mess than it was. Look at the guy who fought Resto and see his face after the fight. That is what a loaded gloves does.

the loaded gloves saga has steam rolled a bit, largely because of the fact cotto is a very a popular fighter and many would prefer to ignore the fact he lost. marg was caught cheating against mosley and was rightfully banned, but it was to do with his hand wraps and not loaded gloves. some people dont know what they are on about here, and its no wonder they cant comprehend the 1 year ban margarito got. that doesnt mean i condone margarito cheating against mosely, well trying to anyway. but his excuses about an injury are not totally far fetched, and would explain why he was caught against mosely and not cotto. afterall cottos trainer DID watch margs hands wrapped the first time.

i always beleived marg had cheated against cotto in the first fight, until the rematch. marg may have been one dimensional, flat footed and overconfident, but cotto still wanted no part of him what so ever. if cotto had taken an 11 round beating from margs 'loaded' gloves, surely he would have been confident enough to go and batter him without that advantage. instead he boxed well, but CAREFULLY to his gameplan and never looked for revenge. although marg only landed once or twice, it still was enough to let cotto know he could hurt him. also margarito showed good power against manny. thats the most ive seen manny hurt in the last 5 years.

loaded

Fully loaded like potato skins.

TumblingDice wrote:Fully loaded like potato skins.

hahahha

Loaded like your missus asking if she looks "fat" in that

I personally don't think he had illegal wraps for the first fight with Cotto for the simple reason he took his gloves off and immediately shook his hand, not the action of someone with loaded fists.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I personally don't think he had illegal wraps for the first fight with Cotto for the simple reason he took his gloves off and immediately shook his hand, not the action of someone with loaded fists.

Bingo. They don't like him so out goes objectivity.

Compare it to the Resto/Collins fight where Resto was edgy at the end trying to avoid contact with anyone.

I know nt very reliable but the below is copied and pasted from Wikipedia on margarito:

"In November 2009, it emerged that red stains on the hand wraps Margarito used in the Cotto fight were similar to the stains on the inserts seized before the Mosley fight. This has raised suspicions that Margarito's gloves were loaded for that fight and possibly others as well.[22]
"

So the red was similar for both the cotto and Mosley fights?

Wiki isn't reliable. Any man and his dog can edt it. I recall Naz saying that he say some plaster of paris when the wraps were removed.

loaded

There will never be any proof either way, and as such we have to assume innocent.

BUT, an educated guess would lead me to say YES, for a few reasons.

1. Why would Marg suddenly decide to use loaded gloves on old man Mosley, when he'd just destroyed the much higher rated Cotto with his own natural power?

2. They say the last thing to go is a fighters punch, yet post Mosley that seemed to be the first thing to go for Marg. Coincidence?

3. Pacquiao mashed up Cottos face too, but he hit him with quite a lot more shots than Marg did. Margs power didn't seem to bother Cotto in the second fight.

Marg was never a destructive puncher in his career, my belief is he was actually loaded for the Cintron fight (where he suddenly found increased power), got away with it, carried the formula into the Cotto fight, got away with it again, got complacent, caught, exposed, banned, came back and under close scrutiny returned to being the mediocre puncher he was pre 2008. No proof, but logic dictates that he almost certainly spent a period of his career getting away with being loaded.