Player Burnout

Its monday morning, so what better than a cross sport thread?

I was listening to the radio on the way to work and was hearing about "player burnout" with specific reference to tennis players now that the Masters is about to take place in London.

They were saying that Ferrer has only two days between winning a tournament and appearing in the next due to the heavy schedule of todays top tennis players. They claimed that like golf, there is no off season anymore and its a continual merry go round that inevitably leads to burn out.

So my question is - what do you think is the toughest sport physically (and I suppose mentally) over a year?

Tennis that means that the top guys have to play once every few days competitively?
Golf where the tour never seems to end and that competitors are playing 4 days straight?
Football where players are playing 10 months of the year every few days?
Rugby that is the most physically aggressive during the season?
Boxing which is obviously very physical but where top competitors only battle a few times a year (at best)
Motor racing?

Lets hear your thoughts and the reasons for your answer......

Certainly isn't football. 90 mins, twice a week. Pathetic wimps.
Nor Golf where they are only walking and hitting about 35-40 full shots per round.
Too many subs in Rugby.

Toughest sports are probably Cycling, Triathlon, Marathon Running, Tennis. Being a jockey must be incredibly difficult too, making weight by drinking gruel.

When I saw this in the Global announcement, I immediately thought "Poster burnout"

Ice Hockey is pretty tough too, 82 games a season plus the playoffs, some guys play 27-30mins every game, skating at 60mph and getting hit into next week 8-10 times a game.

Not to mention the injuries they play through come playoff time - broken shoulders etc - and Phil Kessel's return from testicular cancer and only missing 11 games

I would say cycling has to be up there. They ride pretty much 150 odd kilometres most days no matter the weather or the terrain. Imagine the pain of just sitting on the seat all day

I know you put Golf on the list to generate debate but that did make me laugh. Its a good sport but not physically demanding, and though golfers are starting to look more like athletes its a long way behind most other major sports. You don't get too many overweight footballers, rugby players even cricketers these days, which is a shame as you couldn't beat the likes of Mickey Quinn for entertainment.

I'd go for road cycling anyway. The Tour de France is 3 weeks of consecutive rides that would make most people weep just thinking about them. And then there's other grand tours, single day races, shorter tours on top of that.

RE: Cycling.

The drugs help them ease the pain


Saying Golf isn't gruelling isn't the point though, surely the point is the global travelling involved. Same with Tennis. It's not always the physical sport that causes burnout. Play 3-4 tournaments in Asia, fly to Australia, play a few more tournaments there, fly to America etc.

Fair point Marky. I don't have much sympathy really. Players don't have to play all the tournaments in Golf and Tennis and have a fair amount of freedom to choose the schedule they want. The reason to play more is to earn more and the rewards are of course huge these days.

Boxing has to be up there along with MMA for obvious reasons. Along with that I would say Heptathlon / Decathlon must be up there. I have heard that Formula One drivers have to be incredibly fit from a few people too.

The top players in tennis are playing from January 1st to mid-November, or early December if they get to the final of the Davis Cup.

The elite players will enter 23-25 events per year getting to the business end of each one. Some events like slams take 2 weeks...so that at least 30 weeks per year, not including Davis Cup weekends. This doesnt include any doubles matches.

For each event they typically play 5-7 matches...often one day after the next for Masters events. Each match may last 1 to 4-5 hours and they may run themselves into cramp/physical breakdown by the end, particularly in slam matches. At the US Open they have to potentially play 5 setters on Saturday's in the semi's then come back the next day for another potential 5 setter in the final. Plus they have to fly all over the world to enter these almost weekly events, combatting jetlag, etc.

Tennis isnt the Pimms and cucumber sandwiches pastime of old, its a brutal and punishing tour where only literally the fitness survive.

I can speak about tennis; tennis is pretty tough.

The top players have to play the following mandatory tournaments: 4 slams, 9 masters, and I think 2 500's and 2 250's, world tour finals = 18 tournaments minimum, it could be more I'm not entirely sure. On top of that there is Davis Cup.

The slams have a days rest between matches but considering that five set matches can last beyond five hours, that's pretty tough over the course of seven matches. The rest of the tournaments play 3 set matches but on consecutive days, so a top player could potentially 5, 3 hour (or more) matches on consecutive days. Of course then there is all the travelling (and they travel all around the world), sponsorship commitments, promotion (and they have to do it all on their own without teammates), press conferences after every match (Federer can spend a a couple of hours doing pressers). Over the course of a season the top players today will play approx 80-85 matches.

The lower ranked players also have it pretty tough. They tend to play far more tourneys because more often then not they lose earlier. It's not unsual for them to play 30 tourneys a year.

But I think the main thing leading to burnout in tennis is probably the slower conditions (slower courts, bigger softer balls) which means every point becomes a war of attrition and a physical battle. In the 80's Llendl, Mac and Co could play more than a hundred matches a year and doubles; that is nolonger possible under current playing conditions.



emancipator

Oops Lydian, you got in there before me

I would also say that the cycling season starts in January and finishes late October, now whilst the cyclists don't ride every day, most ride upwards of 100 days a year, up and down mountains, in different continents come wind and freezing weather or boiling hot sun.

lol emancipator...good to see we're aligned on tennis as a whole

I think cycling or marathon or ultramarathon or something.

These people who run 100 miles or something in Death Valley or in the Sahara desert.

Jockeys. Seven or eight rides on race day, week in week out.

From the perspective of an occasional viewer, I'd go for tennis (men's in particular). Can't believe how they can survive best-of-5 format in grand slams when they have to run so much and hit the ball so hard.

Seems like a bit much when they play almost all year around, all over the world etc. Aside from the point that golf is nowhere near as physically demanding, the golfers can to some extent pick and choose which tournaments to play in, and indeed, there's been some controversy lately about the biggest names in the game excusing themselves from a big tournament in China (one tier below the majors; perhaps like the Masters events in tennis, not sure) despite being in that country that week... playing each other over 1 round for a fat fee.

Would also say that NBA basketball looks pretty tough - a lot of games with much explosive activity over the course of 8 months or so a year. There are lots of substitutions and time-outs, but even so, I'm surprised there aren't more injury absences.

bhb001 wrote:Jockeys. Seven or eight rides on race day, week in week out.

i sit in my chair at work for 9 hours a day....

Cycling the bike does most the work.

For me the hardest training I've ever done is sprint training.

Anyone ever used a prowler. Absolute killer.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Cycling the bike does most the work.

For me the hardest training I've ever done is sprint training.

Anyone ever used a prowler. Absolute killer.

Yeah because those pedals just turn themselves

I either run of cycle to work, I sure as hell know which is harder. I love cycling, but I find it terribly easy compared to boxing/sprinting.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:I either run of cycle to work, I sure as hell know which is harder. I love cycling, but I find it terribly easy compared to boxing/sprinting.

What a stupid comment,

How can you compare a leisurely cycle with professional sport?

Try cycling on rough terrain, up hillsides against some of the fittest athletes in the world; I'm pretty sure your gentle cycle/jog to work is not in the same league.

hend085 wrote:

bhb001 wrote:Jockeys. Seven or eight rides on race day, week in week out.

i sit in my chair at work for 9 hours a day....

Hahah

How are jockeys fit? May just be my ignorance but they are basically midgets who sit and stand on a horse?

emancipator wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:I either run of cycle to work, I sure as hell know which is harder. I love cycling, but I find it terribly easy compared to boxing/sprinting.

What a stupid comment,

How can you compare a leisurely cycle with professional sport?

Try cycling on rough terrain, up hillsides against some of the fittest athletes in the world; I'm pretty sure your gentle cycle/jog to work is not in the same league.

First off it isn't leisurely. Secondly, I often cycle rather long distances at the weekend, I stick to roads but it pay certainly isn't flat. I just find cycling not to difficult compared to other sports.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

emancipator wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:I either run of cycle to work, I sure as hell know which is harder. I love cycling, but I find it terribly easy compared to boxing/sprinting.

What a stupid comment,

How can you compare a leisurely cycle with professional sport?

Try cycling on rough terrain, up hillsides against some of the fittest athletes in the world; I'm pretty sure your gentle cycle/jog to work is not in the same league.

First off it isn't leisurely. Secondly, I often cycle rather long distances at the weekend, I stick to roads but it pay certainly isn't flat. I just find cycling not to difficult compared to other sports.

Try climbing The Alps or The Pyrenees

Olly wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

emancipator wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:I either run of cycle to work, I sure as hell know which is harder. I love cycling, but I find it terribly easy compared to boxing/sprinting.

What a stupid comment,

How can you compare a leisurely cycle with professional sport?

Try cycling on rough terrain, up hillsides against some of the fittest athletes in the world; I'm pretty sure your gentle cycle/jog to work is not in the same league.

First off it isn't leisurely. Secondly, I often cycle rather long distances at the weekend, I stick to roads but it pay certainly isn't flat. I just find cycling not to difficult compared to other sports.

Try climbing The Alps or The Pyrenees

I would but I live in Newcastle.

Anyone else find cycling more or less difficult than other sports, interested to know. Anyone used a prowler?

I do a lot of cross country competitions and I would much rather cycle 40 miles than run 10, my personal toughest sport is swimming. I consider myself very fit but in the pool I am knackered after a few lengths. Maybe it's because I have awful technique but I hate swimming!!!

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

Olly wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

emancipator wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:I either run of cycle to work, I sure as hell know which is harder. I love cycling, but I find it terribly easy compared to boxing/sprinting.

What a stupid comment,

How can you compare a leisurely cycle with professional sport?

Try cycling on rough terrain, up hillsides against some of the fittest athletes in the world; I'm pretty sure your gentle cycle/jog to work is not in the same league.

First off it isn't leisurely. Secondly, I often cycle rather long distances at the weekend, I stick to roads but it pay certainly isn't flat. I just find cycling not to difficult compared to other sports.

Try climbing The Alps or The Pyrenees

I would but I live in Newcastle.

Anyone else find cycling more or less difficult than other sports, interested to know. Anyone used a prowler?

I would have, but I don't live in Newcastle.

Hibbz wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

Olly wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

emancipator wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:I either run of cycle to work, I sure as hell know which is harder. I love cycling, but I find it terribly easy compared to boxing/sprinting.

What a stupid comment,

How can you compare a leisurely cycle with professional sport?

Try cycling on rough terrain, up hillsides against some of the fittest athletes in the world; I'm pretty sure your gentle cycle/jog to work is not in the same league.

First off it isn't leisurely. Secondly, I often cycle rather long distances at the weekend, I stick to roads but it pay certainly isn't flat. I just find cycling not to difficult compared to other sports.

Try climbing The Alps or The Pyrenees

I would but I live in Newcastle.

Anyone else find cycling more or less difficult than other sports, interested to know. Anyone used a prowler?

I would have, but I don't live in Newcastle.

Yep, mountain range compared to piece of metal equipment. Douche

hend085 wrote:

bhb001 wrote:Jockeys. Seven or eight rides on race day, week in week out.

i sit in my chair at work for 9 hours a day....

ahem hend - suggest you try restricted diet 365 days a year to keep your weight 9 stone or below, while riding strong young thoroughbreds. Also hiking the stirrups up to jockey length and feel the thigh burn.

I think I'm probably correct in assuming you've probably never even tried pony trekking!!!

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

emancipator wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:I either run of cycle to work, I sure as hell know which is harder. I love cycling, but I find it terribly easy compared to boxing/sprinting.

What a stupid comment,

How can you compare a leisurely cycle with professional sport?

Try cycling on rough terrain, up hillsides against some of the fittest athletes in the world; I'm pretty sure your gentle cycle/jog to work is not in the same league.

First off it isn't leisurely. Secondly, I often cycle rather long distances at the weekend, I stick to roads but it pay certainly isn't flat. I just find cycling not to difficult compared to other sports.

You're clearly missing the point.

Whatever level of cycling you do it IS leisurely compared to the guys who compete at the elite level, unless you too happen to be an elite cyclist;

And of course the effort you put it is not going to be anything like the effort they put it so it's a matter of degrees. For example, I find walking quite easy, compared to running. But on the other hand if I was given a choice between running for 2 hours and walking for two days, I'd definitely pick the former. Obviously the effort that cyclists put in to win premier events is comparable to the effort required to win the same in running even if cycling over the same distance is considerably easier. They all train incredibly hard.

Anyway, the question was regarding burn out, not who's the fittest or indeed which discipline is the hardest. Fitness, as we all know, is sport specific. Elite athletes in physical sports (not golf ) are all probably about as fit as each other but in different areas and dimensions.

I can definitely understand the point of view put forward by Olly, that cycling endlessly can lead to quick burnout. I mean, why haven't those dudes got sores on their harrises



emancipator

I have to hang my hat on either tennis or golf.

Simply because of the travelling. I think that is something massively overlooked. They travel from country to country, continent to continent. Keeping themselves fit around a busy schedule during the travelling is the more remarkable.

In terms of a sporting event, Triathlon everytime.

legendkillarV2 wrote:I have to hang my hat on either tennis or golf.

Simply because of the travelling. I think that is something massively overlooked. They travel from country to country, continent to continent. Keeping themselves fit around a busy schedule during the travelling is the more remarkable.

In terms of a sporting event, Triathlon everytime.

The top golfers do it on Private jets, they aren't hanging around departure lounges waiting in queues with riff raff going to Tenerife. Plus the tournaments are fairly regionalised. You could argue that F1 (if you can even call it a sport and not an engineering competition) is more tiring as they go from pillar to post and not just from Chicago-Florida-California-Georgia and perhaps over to Europe for the odd tournament like the fat pampered golfers are. Jockeys probably travel for as long but over shorter distances in worse conditions and comfort for a ride or two and then back in their Cinqucento (lets face it they don't need much bigger) for another ride at the other side of the country.
Hard to feel sorry for any sportsman.

super_realist wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:I have to hang my hat on either tennis or golf.

Simply because of the travelling. I think that is something massively overlooked. They travel from country to country, continent to continent. Keeping themselves fit around a busy schedule during the travelling is the more remarkable.

In terms of a sporting event, Triathlon everytime.

The top golfers do it on Private jets, they aren't hanging around departure lounges waiting in queues with riff raff going to Tenerife. Plus the tournaments are fairly regionalised. You could argue that F1 (if you can even call it a sport and not an engineering competition) is more tiring as they go from pillar to post and not just from Chicago-Florida-California-Georgia and perhaps over to Europe for the odd tournament like the fat pampered golfers are. Jockeys probably travel for as long but over shorter distances in worse conditions and comfort for a ride or two and then back in their Cinqucento (lets face it they don't need much bigger) for another ride at the other side of the country.
Hard to feel sorry for any sportsman.

Not every golfer is a 'top golfer' and therefore does not have access to a private jet.

Looking at the whole sport and not just the elite few can skewer that view.

Still don't think being a pro golfer can be gruelling in the least. Most are pretty fat and out of shape so if it were that much of a strain they'd be gaunt and thin, not well fed and portly.

time please wrote:

hend085 wrote:

bhb001 wrote:Jockeys. Seven or eight rides on race day, week in week out.

i sit in my chair at work for 9 hours a day....

ahem hend - suggest you try restricted diet 365 days a year to keep your weight 9 stone or below, while riding strong young thoroughbreds. Also hiking the stirrups up to jockey length and feel the thigh burn.

I think I'm probably correct in assuming you've probably never even tried pony trekking!!!

wow- restricted diet- boxers also have to make a weight too but after that they dont just take a seat for 5 minutes... they get battered by someone in the other corner.

The advantage about some individual sports like tennis and golf is that you have a higher degree of freedom to plan your schedule. Cycling, football etc. doesn't really offer that, nor do jockying and F1.

pedro wrote:The advantage about some individual sports like tennis and golf is that you have a higher degree of freedom to plan your schedule. Cycling, football etc. doesn't really offer that, nor do jockying and F1.

Ummm where on earth did you get that from?

Tennis players have to play mandatory events. So the 'high' freedom you speak of is somewhat of a myth.

I think what he meant is that not all events are mandatory like F1 for instance.
A player can elect to sit certain tournaments out, such as Murray did lately. Vettel couldn't do the same.

It might be a few tournaments are mandatory, but there's still 52 weeks in a year. I don't know how many tournaments are mandatory on the ATP tour but I guess it's around 12-14. And so it is in golf. Don't tell me that you can't plan your year around that.

Murray withdrew through injury. Are you seriously telling me that if Vettel was injured he couldn't pull out?

Come on.

Tennis players play 18 mandatory events.

So when you say plan, they can only plan certain parts of the year whether it conflicts or not.

Of course he could. But Tennis players and golfers CAN take weeks off, not every tournament is mandatory.
Every F1 race, barring injury is mandatory.

I don't like F1 it's just a fact. I do think Tennis is up there as the most exhausting of sports, but don't tell me golf is.

Personally I think tennis players work harder for their money. IMO tennis is one of the few sports that is both physically AND mentally exhausting. You can risk playing 3-4 hours every day of a week, and besides being in great shape, you also need 100% focus and concentration. And that's on top of extensive travelling and practising.

Different sports will obviously encounter different forms of burn-out.

As usual I have little sympathy with the footballers - not only are they paid more than anybody else but they do 90 minutes, twice a week.

Right at the top of the list must be individual sports. In these you imagine the mental challenge is tougher than in team sports. That leads me to endorse tennis - hugely demanding both physically and mentally. I also have huge respects for (the clean) cyclists, triathletes, marathon runners and the like for the physical difficulties of their sport.

In my sport, cricket, burnout is talked about a lot. But to be honest I find it difficult to suggest that its that significant in comparison to some of these others. Mentally you could compare it to Golf and F1 - the hours away from home - but physically there are at least opportunities to switch off in the course of a match: that never happens for tennis players or cyclists.

An F1 race is probably the most intense 2 hours of sport for me - driving the car around the track at up to 200mph, wearing thermals in a 35-50 degree cockpit, with no suspension. The drivers run triathlons for fun.

On the travel front, in 2010 the Chch earthquake meant the Crusaders were playing their "home" games 300 miles away in Nelson (well, aside from the "home" game they played in London). Those guys chalked up over 100,000 air miles between Feb and June, and those who were internationals then had to play in the trinations (so another trip around the world to South Africa and back), finishing the year with a tour of the UK. Several would have been close on 200,000 miles travelled.

Shelsey93 wrote:Different sports will obviously encounter different forms of burn-out.

As usual I have little sympathy with the footballers - not only are they paid more than anybody else but they do 90 minutes, twice a week.

Right at the top of the list must be individual sports. In these you imagine the mental challenge is tougher than in team sports. That leads me to endorse tennis - hugely demanding both physically and mentally. I also have huge respects for (the clean) cyclists, triathletes, marathon runners and the like for the physical difficulties of their sport.

In my sport, cricket, burnout is talked about a lot. But to be honest I find it difficult to suggest that its that significant in comparison to some of these others. Mentally you could compare it to Golf and F1 - the hours away from home - but physically there are at least opportunities to switch off in the course of a match: that never happens for tennis players or cyclists.

Good point regarding the mental focus required for the duration of competition. Team sports allow some leeway in that respect. Individual sports less so. In tennis you can play a great match but a couple of bad points and that could be the difference. Seen it so many times. That mental intensity is probably a huge factor in causing burnout.

playing tennis seems pretty easy if you're a Williams brother. Turn up to about 4 tournaments a year. Looks tough for everyone else though.

Footballers are overpaid over-pampered pansies.

Think triathlon is the toughest event, but schedule wise I'm not sure if it's tougher than tennis per se as an overall sport.

Boxing, old school with 6-10 fights a year, would be #1 for me.

Golf isn't a sport.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Golf isn't a sport.

Correct. As evidenced by the 'shoe theory' or even the 'smoking theory'.

Either one will suffice!

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Golf isn't a sport.

Correct. As evidenced by the 'shoe theory' or even the 'smoking theory'.

Either one will suffice!

Don't forget the "slacks" issue too. Ditto Cricket whites and it isn't a sport if you stop for Earl Grey and Cucumber sandwiches.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Golf isn't a sport.

Correct. As evidenced by the 'shoe theory' or even the 'smoking theory'.

Either one will suffice!