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NZ vs Italy

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:11 am

Most people will probably be watching the Australia England game which is fair enough but here's a thread for the few watching this game. Italy look strong in the scrum and have had a solid but unspectacular start in the backs.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:14 am

Brilliant passage of play from Italy then. They'll get a lot of confidence from that. Nice variety with chips over the defensive line and nice offloading. Great stuff Italy!

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:17 am

Italy fail to capitalise on the points opportunity and NZ work it down to the Italy 22. Offside and Rolland finally calls the teams up for offside. Unfortunately for Italy he decides to rule offside when they're in their 22.

Easy 3 points for Cruden. NZ 3 - Italy 0.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:21 am

Great skill from Italy, with Parisse a basketball flick round the back inside but NZ hold the ball up and get the scrum. NZ looking controlled now after weathering a promising Italy start.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:23 am

Cruden with an initial break in midfield. Gets a pass away and Conrad Smith with a great pick up changes up the attack by crossing back outside and Read then switches the play inside and scores. Shows how running the right lines can make the defence look silly. NZ 10 - Italy 0

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Post by Taylorman Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:27 am

So weve got three matches on at the same time?

WE are getting the NZ and oz games but are SA playing now as well? its delayed here.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:28 am

Italy lucky to get away with cynical play and not have a man down. Cruden converts. 13- 0. ABs make a real hash of the restart and NZ lucky to escape.

NZ Australia match about to start Tman. Not sure about Scotland vs SA but think half an hour later.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:32 am

Italy turn down an easy 3 and look to gain advantage from their scrum. A great surge and then the move goes out wide and a very well taken try. So important for Italy to score there having turned down 3. Great effort. clap Kick over and 13 - 7 to NZ. How will NZ respond?

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:35 am

Well not a bad response! NZ shift the ball out wide and the final pass from Barrett to Gear is knocked forward with a beautiful covering tackle. Actually poor effort from Gear who didn't protect ball going into contact. Try went begging there as Barrett gave a great pass providing space.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:42 am

Italy defensive line holding and getting turnover ball. Lovely cross kick and Italy try to offload instead of going to ground with the ball. Good passage from them but they must score with these chances.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:46 am

Cruden makes a break but takes the wrong option. Italy defensive line but a few more gaps appearing now. Rolland seems incapable of keeping a proper offside line.

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Post by anotherworldofpain Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:50 am

Yes that offside line again...not a feature for NH refs. Very annoying, much the same in the eng aus game.

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Post by Golden Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:51 am

Only caught the last ten minutes but italy have been impressive. Nice little break away from gori at the end.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:52 am

Great finish from Italy and they just miss out on scoring. AB defensive line being pierced and NZ being frustrated on attack as the space is being closed down in midfield. Great work from Italy and NZ know they have a game on their hands.

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Post by Taylorman Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:09 am

This is what I was a little worried about with this selection. But we should be ok second half. Need to move it though. Its easier when the snif of a win is knocked out of them.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:10 am

NZ on the Italian line and again Italy well offside. Nonu had made a good kick through earlier to try to combat this rushing defence. NZ show they're in a game by taking the 3 points. NZ 16 Italy 7.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:16 am

Nice set move and Savea offloads and Nonu again shows how running good lines at pace can get you past the covering defence. 23 7.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:19 am

Wonderful continuity from Italy. They're offloading well and shifting the ball well. The NZ defence holds strong though so they take a great option and take a well deserved drop goal. Great to see them still taking the game to the ABs and holding shape.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:34 am

Messy from both sides in the last 10 minutes. Italy need to score to keep this game alive but NZ look more threatening.

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Post by maestegmafia Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:40 am

Italy are playing well. But Cory Janes score should put the match out of reach now.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:40 am

Lots of subs on for NZ and K-B on for A Smith who hasn't been all that impressive today. Should be interesting to see which halfback gets picked next week. Jane is on for Gear and gets an offload from Savea who sets up another try and Italy fall off the last tackle and Jane scores. 30 - 10. Sorry Gear still on and Jane must be on for Barrett. Another solid game from the young man in a position he really doesn't play much at.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:44 am

Video ref has a real tough one here. It seems both players from opposing teams touch the ball at the same time. Italy given benefit of the doubt.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:48 am

Savea gets just reward for a good game. He's set up two tries coming in off the wing and getting an offload after committing players in contact. ABs patient and Savea adds another try to his impressive tally. Good to see the young man making another good contribution. Bench changes to Italy have hurt Italy and the depth NZ has, makes this last quarter a tough one for Italy. They haven't been in the game at all which is sad as they were containing NZ more or less with good rush defence and a varied attack. Sadly all that good work is largely being undone now.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:50 am

Intelligent kicking game has vanished for Italy and Jane returns the ball with interest and a pass to Savea who gets a double. 80 minutes is what you have to compete for and Italy are being reminded of that. Heads are down and it's all NZ.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:55 am

Nonu with another rubbish long pass out to the wing ends the game. He did that a few times today when he should've passed the ball in closer.

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Post by maestegmafia Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:56 am

Well played all blacks.
Italy played some good rugby for the first fifty minutes. Unfortunately the ABs are one step beyond..

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:03 am

Well Italy showed what you can do to the ABs if you don't hold off on defence and take the game to the ABs. Problem was they only managed to do that for the first half.

Their legs went in the second half and they didn't have enough firepower on the bench to stop the gaps that opened up. NZ won't be happy with many aspects. They turned over a lot of ball to the Italians and ball retention is my main concern from this team.

Aaron Smith didn't put a strong claim to the shirt today and I really don't know who will start or be on the bench next week. Cruden did some things well today but lacks the physicality to stop defences rushing up and though he made some useful offloads, he made too many errors. I think Savea deserves a start along with Jane on the bench and don't know if Barrett or Dagg will start at fullback.

In the pack, we looked lightweight in the scrums and got bullied by Italy on many occasions. Williams will probably take no further part on this tour. The NZ backrow didn't have a strong game and Read, Messam and McCaw should start next week and make a better account of themselves. Mealamu looked to have a calf injury so probably Hore and Cole will be the hookers.

Much depends on Wales and the attitude and the defence they have next week. NZ looks to have too much firepower across the park and can be patient enough to gain an advantage. But Italy showed if you put them under pressure and score points then you can make this team look beatable.

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Post by maestegmafia Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:06 am

Well said mate.

Great atmosphere here in Rome all the same.

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Post by nganboy Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:22 am

I think A Smith had a tough game but a lot of that was due to the forwards not protecting him enough. As a result Cruden suffered a little as well but also he just made some average decisions some times
Agree Williams didn't do enough and Nonu was up and down.
Lots of good work by Savea and Cane didn't do too badly.

Its games like this that you realise how much Carter and McCaw can add even though there's nothing too wrong with their replacements
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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:26 am

Poor options from A Smith in Brisbane and to be honest I don't think he deserves to start against Wales. But then again who does?

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Post by Morgannwg Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:05 am

This isn't broadcast on TV in the UK then? Can't seem to find any online coverage? (hint hint).
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Post by emack2 Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:00 am

I have just watched NZ versus Italy on ESPN,a very scrappy match and brave display by Italy .
Italy had a lot of possession and a fair bit of territory,the Scrum was pretty even.Italy made a mess of one AB Scrum,the ABs returned the compliment on several occassions.Overall one would say parity at Scrum time Italy had lineout problems.
There Defence was excellent helped by the fact they spent most of the afternoon offside.Also they showed when they ran the ball they were dangerous but too much aimless kicking.

The AllBlacks were somewhat disjointed several attacks being poorly executed
the mass changes could`nt have helped.
The commetary was embarassing the ABs stole a lineout,"ITaly stole that AllBlack Lineout!!"."Owen Franks was forced into touch to easily"RIGHT he was in the stands watching!!!.
Overall very enjoyable Kerr-Barlow and Dane Coles had good hit outs and the 30 point handicap was achieved..
Incidentally Ali Williams had a solid game and certainly did`nt disgrace himself
Conrad Smith was awesome!!!
Next week Wales no complacency I expect them to be more like the REAL Wales.

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Post by anotherworldofpain Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:03 am

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Poor options from A Smith in Brisbane and to be honest I don't think he deserves to start against Wales. But then again who does?

Thought Weepu looked in better form to be honest...

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Post by Taylorman Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:34 am

From after match comments it almost seems as though the Abs had a second agenda for this match in that they want to promote the game as exciting in Italy- the match two years ago was a fizzer so thats a bit concerning if theyre being dictated to or feel a need to 'promote while playing'.

But in thinking about it more, someone really needs to as there have been a lot of dour matches being played. Sides like SA and the four NH sides really are playing some boring stuff, I cant imagine many will convert sports watching most of those matches.

Its unfair to those sides as they struggle to get parity but even when playing each other theyre dour.

There's one view that they're not there to entertain, they're there to win. We all know that. On the other side of the coin it also doesn't mean we can't highlight the fact that it is at times boring, and we pay our well earned money to watch these matches- so there is some responsibility to' entertain' whether we like it or not.

And a lot of this comes from the sides themselves. The skill levels arent there so a lot of matches just go through the motion requiring someone to 'win' at the end.

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Post by emack2 Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:09 am

The problem for me has been trying to find and follow all the games Wales on S4C yesterday.Did`nt even have the decency of English subtitles not worried about the commetary.But the Pre-match commments would be nice had to subscribe to ESPN for the Italy game.I have England and South Africa games yet to watch on my hard drive overkill.
The matches I have watched have been entertaining in the main but you can`t watch them all 4 on at the same time is plain stupid.
From a SH at least All Black point of view the AIs are the ideal time to blood new players.With respect IF you pick 33 players you have to give them all game time.
The Program Scotland,Italy, Wales,England the latter two games were always going to be targetted.
But for Brisbane a weaker side may have faced Scotland ,but as it was they copped the Blaclklash ineivitably.Not that the performance was that great but 7 tries were.
..
You can`t just pick 14 new starters and expect the combinations to be there and Italy were never going to win no matter what.
Despite Wales two setbacks complacency should have no place in the ABs camp
nor todays England reverse.
Australia won and there Scrum manned up,BUT according to reports 4 kicks at Goal were eschewed trying for tries.Plus one disallowed by the TMOor not awarded.
France begin to look formidable Australia now Argentina dispatched with some ease 6Ns favourites?
What is clear there are few easy beats for any team these days every side deserves respect.

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:26 am

emack2 wrote:The problem for me has been trying to find and follow all the games Wales on S4C yesterday.Did`nt even have the decency of English subtitles not worried about the commetary.But the Pre-match commments would be nice had to subscribe to ESPN for the Italy game.I have England and South Africa games yet to watch on my hard drive overkill.
The matches I have watched have been entertaining in the main but you can`t watch them all 4 on at the same time is plain stupid.
From a SH at least All Black point of view the AIs are the ideal time to blood new players.With respect IF you pick 33 players you have to give them all game time.
The Program Scotland,Italy, Wales,England the latter two games were always going to be targetted.
But for Brisbane a weaker side may have faced Scotland ,but as it was they copped the Blaclklash ineivitably.Not that the performance was that great but 7 tries were.
..
You can`t just pick 14 new starters and expect the combinations to be there and Italy were never going to win no matter what.
Despite Wales two setbacks complacency should have no place in the ABs camp
nor todays England reverse.
Australia won and there Scrum manned up,BUT according to reports 4 kicks at Goal were eschewed trying for tries.Plus one disallowed by the TMOor not awarded.
France begin to look formidable Australia now Argentina dispatched with some ease 6Ns favourites?
What is clear there are few easy beats for any team these days every side deserves respect.

The game was on BBC2 Wales in English Alan (Sky channel 971). And it's probably on the BBC iplayer now
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Post by Taylorman Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:54 am

Yes wasnt the Ali wait worth it. Wonder what the going price is for a free All Black jersey these days...just ask Ali.

At 9 Id say Weepu would be better against England and Smith should start against Wales. I think its much of a muchness with either of them.

Read was supremo again today running some nice lines again.

Its still 2 20+ point wins so we gotta be happy about that particularly compared with everyone else.

With the injuries to SA and Oz this year I dont think I've ever seen such a gulf between the ABs and the rest but its perhaps exaggerated by the rugby being played by some test sides. Very low quality in terms of skills, accuracy and execution across the board. Argie, France and Samoa the only sides on the improve- France particularly under St Andre.

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Post by blackcanelion Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:25 pm

Taylorman, i'm with you on this one to some degree. I'm not sure that Cruden and Smith a re a great combination at this level. My feeling is that whoever is inside Cruden needs to ask questions of the defence.

The two games raise questions in my mind. probably due to unrealistic expectations. When I stand back and look at them in context, they are good wins (not many sides go to Murryfield or Rome and come away with big wins). The problem is that my mind wants more. I'm conditioned to looking for the complete performance. A commanding performance by forwards and backs.

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Post by Taylorman Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:41 pm

yeah bc I have too but when considering how difficult other sides are finding it- no one is anywhere near a complete 80, let alone us, I put it down to how difficult it is to gain a significant advantage, particularly with todays defences and long periods of ball retention, where largely nothing happens for either side.

I've switched to the opinion that a full 80 isnt the greater goal anymore. For me its playing the same tune then capitalising on the key moments that come along every now and then. Patience rather than continuously pushing every moment.

Today and against Scotland we had some flat moments- sometimes perhaps pushing to hard too quickly. then during two separate 20 minute spells in both matches we put both matches away.

Just feel thats as good as you can get sometimes. 80 minutes every match is just a bit too much to ask and its showed this year. We rarely get it.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:59 pm

The best performances were in Argentina and SA. Our worst performance was easily Brisbane. Dunedin saw us dominated in the forwards. Yet even when we were playing poorly, we still held out for at least a draw. But when the ABs are on song, they can put sides away in just a few minutes with not necessarily a lot of possession.

Italy and Scotland played well in stages and though we didn't always play well and our ball retention was suspect at times but in the end we put on the points required.

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Post by emack2 Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:06 pm

The problem some people can`t grasp is that ALL the sides are improving and tinkering with the laws has helped the defence.
Now be fair to the All Blacks and the Coaches this side has lost THE best 4 and 6.
one of the best 15s in the world.There replacements are feeling there feet and there has been a lot of rotation
Despite this the ABs are on a 19 match unbeaten run many of those by big margins.It is either extreme arrogance or hyper critical to expect them to just sweep every other team aside.

In only one match have the failed to score a try in over 100 matches,they are conceding on average one a game if that.
You can`t have the same team play every game in todays climate and at least the AB`s are playing for the full 80.
I`m as big an AB fan as most people but am objective about it,you are only as good as your last game.
THAT applies to both teams and indviduals think other wise or try to be clever and you may end up like England today.
Try to win in style and end up losing in close games you WIN first then entertain. IF you can do both GREAT,I said i`d reserve judgement on Ali Williams well he played WELL.As did Weepu in the last game Kerr _Barlow and Dane Coles went well.Barrett even if it isn`t his best position had a stormer and was on the end of some pretty cynical professional fouls.Two games to go hoping for the clean sweep.

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Post by nganboy Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:34 am

Did anyone think the camera work was terrible? They didn't follow the game well, had weird angles and weren't zoomed in properly - or was it just me watching on isky through my lap top onto a big tv?
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Post by Taylorman Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:50 am

nganboy wrote:Did anyone think the camera work was terrible? They didn't follow the game well, had weird angles and weren't zoomed in properly - or was it just me watching on isky through my lap top onto a big tv?

Yeah it was odd. Either it was too far away or right in the face or off to the side a bit. But it was still ok to follow. Overall was a nice change and a fantastic stadium.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:57 pm

The Italian try was a good example of that nganboy. You couldn't really see the line and not the best view from the dead ball line for a line attack. Wasn't disney at the game? Will have to get his views on the atmosphere as it looked a great game to be at the ground. Thought the crowd was very good.

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Post by disneychilly Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:59 am

Finally able to comment being back at work-f*cking IT...

I bypassed the TV screening issues by going to the game. Was great, brilliant crowd and soooo many Kiwis there. Felt like Shepherds Bush with Italian road signs and better looking chicks.

Was impressed with the pace Italy tried to play at. Brunel is doing a good job with them and they are really picking up their urgency. Much needed. Got to see Parisse first hand finally, the man has a skill set similar to the AB forwards, great passer of the ball and good vision. Could play anywhere. They nullified the two out passes NZ used and caused a lot of handling errors. Nganboy's right Smith wasn't that impressive but he kept getting scragged by Italians and the pack didn't look after him by giving him clean pill.

I thought Barrett played really well and felt at home. Jane was brilliant when he came on but that's three fullbacks that can acquit themselves well at test level. Cruden looked pretty average from where I was sitting and I think the locals looked after our loosies really well.

Was very impressed with our lineout. We seemed to get great ball every time and I suppose that made Smith not getting good pill off subsequent phases. Credit must go to Williams for that I guess as well as Read. Though kickoffs were again sloppy and this has been a few weeks in a row now. That's worrying.

Kudos to the FIR for organising a great event. Had a festival atmosphere with all the goings on outside the stadium. Deafening noise and great support.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:03 am

Wouldn't be surprised to see Jane at fullback as Barrett has rub complaints after the match. I like the idea of keeping Savea and Gear for North and Cuthbert.

Carter should come back as Cruden didn't impress. Weepu might start actually with K-B on the bench. Or he could put A Smith there to give him a rark up because frankly from Brisbane and Rome, he hasn't done enough to start a test. Romano to start with Whitelock and Hore with Owen Franks and McCaw coming back.

Jealous disney. Sounds like a great time. Must do that the next time round. Looks like a great weekend plan.

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Post by aucklandlaurie Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:48 am


Couple of interesting things in those last couple of posts, I get the feeling that Barrett may be looked at as the failure for letting in the Italian try.

At the start of that movement he was well to the left hand side of the field, then as the ball travelled acroos the front of the ABs red zone, he took of cross field and ended up over running the ball.

To me if he was caught to one side that close, he should of stayed where he was, secondly, where was our experienced mid field? that should have been calling any loosies across. At all times, all outside backs should cover the fullback or am I too old school?

Disney, You definitely know how to pick an exotic game of rugby to watch.

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NZ vs Italy Empty Re: NZ vs Italy

Post by disneychilly Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:29 am

Was glad they didn't use Carter to steady the ship. Shows faith in the guys picked and even though Cruden was average he'll be heartened by not getting dragged.

I like Savea's intent to offload in the tackle and not just focus on the line just because he is a wing. Created a lot and should play this week. Not sold on the combo with Gear as Wales will kick better, the turf in Cardiff is an embarrassment and there's no way you can leave out a fit Dagg and a fit Jane.

Yeah loved it. Family friendly atmosphere despite the cacophony. Guys coming up to me and the other Kiwis asking for photos with us, Italian blokes shaking our hands at the end of the game, playing touch outside the stadium. Great advertisement for rugby in general and hopefully it gets the interest it deserves. Aussie are playing at Stadio Flaminio which is a lot smaller.

Due to it being a cash cow we play Wales almost every year-I haven't seen a Wales test but it's very rare to see us play Italy in Italy. Great craic. Argentina is still the one to do though. And South Africa-at Ellis Park.

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NZ vs Italy Empty Re: NZ vs Italy

Post by kiakahaaotearoa Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:06 am

Good news Dagg is fit. Then Jane should replace Gear and if Barrett is fit he can cover 10 and 15.

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NZ vs Italy Empty Re: NZ vs Italy

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